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Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,035 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It does seem more soros-inspired than marxist.

    SF supporters want free (or basically free) accommodation, not housing with strings attached.

    They should really just stick with the social housing model and enforce it properly, keep stock getting turned over, ensure it's sized to the occupants/families needs and try and dispel the "forever home" notion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭Potatoeman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    what is the official breakdown of cost to build a house (materials, builders costs) vs the actual price of a house.
    For example, if a new house costs 500k in south Dublin how much did it cost the builder to build the house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Most of them are from the EU. We voted a long time ago in favour of freedom of movement or do you not respect referendum results?



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,270 ✭✭✭hometruths


    The Scsi would have you believe it is 460k

    https://scsi.ie/realcost2023/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,736 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    still waffling on about 'marxism'? thats the labour party as has already been explained to you (read a history book)

    The idea that councils going back to building houses for people (which they had done for decades) is something that 'goes against the grain' is even more waffle



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s an incredible cost.
    I would love to see a breakdown of

    The materials cost (CRH making massive profits)
    Labour costs
    Insurance costs. (Massive profits in insurance)
    service connections.
    etc

    I wonder is this value that the chartered surveyors are peddling, for a one off house in Dublin, or have they adjusted for economics of scale for the builder.


    I also presume the 460k cost is not including land costs
    Government tax costs
    Legal and estate agent costs


    I find it interesting how no one in power is questioning this €460k coat to build a house yet is happy to be having everyone fighting a FFG vs SF narrative.

    Why haven’t SF called out this cost?



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,270 ✭✭✭hometruths


    It does include land costs, but there is more than a hint that the figures are being massaged somewhat.

    I'm also surprised neither government nor opposition scrutinise the figures a bit more closely.

    The Scsi figures largely underpin givt policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    methinks there might be vested interests at play here- or complete and utter negligence from the housing minister and his department……..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,926 ✭✭✭✭Geuze




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,926 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    We need to reduce the land costs from 70k per unit, towards maybe 10k per unit.

    Land is way too expensive here.

    If that requires massive re-zoning, penal land taxes, whatever, we need to do it.

    The "hard costs" are 179k construction + 13.680 siteworks + 35k site development = 228k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    So the State would own the land, but I would own the house. What would happen if I defaulted? Would the bank be able to sell it, or would it revert back to the ownership of the State? Can’t see banks being too keen on giving out a mortgage with this plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,926 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    A good question.

    Banks lend for apartments, where the land isn't owned.

    Do banks currently lend where the land is subject to a ground rent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    so apparently the hard costs for house building are 53% of the national average price so you’d imagine It’s broadly the same percentage for the GDA

    Therefore if the GDA cost is €461K then the hard costs are €244,330. Per house. That’s insane.

    There’s no way they have factored in scale of economy when builders are delivering multiple houses.

    • As a national average, hard costs which include materials and house building costs make up 53% of overall delivery costs

    I mean how have they arrived at the 53% figure? How much have they said a 9” solid block is?
    How have they said a length of 4x2 timber is?
    Have they broke that €244,330 figure down in the report?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,926 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I don't understand you. What is insane? Too high or too low?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Delete



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Would you buy a cheap house with your own hard earned and a normal mortgage where the bank screws you with interest knowing that it will always be cheap and not subject to market forces? Would you buy a house where the state would dictate who you can sell it to and for how much? Would you buy a house where the value of improvements you make to it are decided by the state?

    Me neither, and yes it's absolutely Marxist. O'Broin in his nether world believes that most people are out for the good of society and are more than happy to pay through the nose for a roof they are only occupying temporarily before passing it on to the next good souls.

    I'm sure every SF TD will be the first to move into these fabulous no chance of gaining any equity despite capitalistically purchased homes. Ah damn it, the income limit is set at 90k, how unfortunate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39 CatLick


    So if my 3 bed semi house is worth 500k (for example) and SF manage to build houses at scale for 350k than surely my houses value will fall to 350k? Once you don't mind SF owning your garden.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,035 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You'll own your garden though, SF need to convince people that they don't want to own a garden. If the price differential persists, then they'll have failed at that (honestly, I don't see such a scheme getting off the ground bar limited numbers to prove they'd done something and the few that get into the scheme will probably end up being paid off at some point, so maybe it'll be a win for them a couple of decades after the purchase).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭standardg60


    You don't have to worry because it will never happen. Essentially SF's plan amounts to individual citizens financing the building of social housing. Anyone, or couple, earning 90k which is what this whole fallacy is based on is going to save and buy a house on it's own land. End of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    @Clo-Clo These are the links you are looking for after you conveniently ignored them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,926 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    SF plan to create a separate market for affordable houses.

    If there is a drop in demand for "regular" houses, then yes, "regular" house prices may fall.

    However, there is so much latent demand that I don't think this will happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭thereiver


    We,d have to go into recession for house prices to fall there's a lot of people out there who would buy a house if the supply was there instead of paying high rent .I don't think anyone believes that Sinn Fein has a viable plan to fix the housing crisis .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    It is beyond everyone because of the current government.

    My friend works for a big builder and in his mid thirties he is the oldest person on the site.

    My uncle works on a site and said nobody in their twenties is on it.

    I would wager their are more irish builders in their twenties working on sites in Australia than here.

    I can imagine busting your balls for a few hundred a week, then going back to mammy's house or a kip that costs a fortune to rent.

    Unfortunately being irish and hardworking makes it impossible to get a house, so we keep training them up and sending them off for Australia to benefit.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,716 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The idea that anyone working in construction is earning "a few hundred a week" is obviously laughable. On top of that no one is moving to Australia for its cheap and available housing because it's worse than here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    WHo said Australia is cheap and available.

    My friends son is renting a place in Melbourne when he couldn't get anywhere here.

    We accept mediocrity here that's why the country is fcuked.

    Post edited by Backstreet Moyes on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭thereiver


    If you move to Australia for cheap housing you are stupid I think an ordinary house in Australia is over 300k the problem is why would builders move here to pay 2k per month rent I think people move to oz cos it's a nice place to live and get work experience

    The economy is booming out population just increased in the last 5 years with no major increase in the no of houses available to rent or buy .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,338 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The vast majority that travel are doungbit for the experience. My nephew went he had a place here and it was very reasonable. He finished his training as a plumber and went he was working for an uncle of his. As he said to his parents if he did not like it he be home in 1-2 years if he did it would be 5+. He be staying 5 years I would say

    Another lad locally that has gone had his own business in the food sector. He is gone for 12 months his parents along with a manager are running the business while he is away.

    This is a great county. Australia has it advantages while you are young. But education costs a fortune as well as housing. Yes the money is good but if you do not learn discipline fast you could be in trouble. I know of two that were deported. If you have any sort of criminal record for assault or drugs you will struggle to enter and if you do enter and come to the attention of the police you will be deported

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭Madeleine Birchfield


    Regardless of what policy Sinn Fein has on housing and whether it will work in practice, I don't see them fixing the housing crisis in Ireland because they lost a third of their base over the immigration issue, and so are unlikely to get into power and be in any position to be fix crises.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Sinn Fein claim they will build 300000 homes by the end of 2029, so let’s say they magically gained every seat in the Dail tomorrow and didn’t have any opposition until then.. That’s 152 homes a day, every day until December 31st 2029.

    How anyone could vote for these absolute spoof artists astounds me. They’ll be no different than FFG.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I find it funny that they say that wealthier parts of Dublin should have more centres etc. an absolutely silly idea that I doubt they believe themselves, I doubt their base believes them

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,488 ✭✭✭plodder


    There's always going to be question marks over estimates involving other people's money. It's only when people run the slide rule and decide it's not worth spending their own money, that you know something is definitely real.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/unviable-construction-stalls-on-more-than-50000-dublin-apartments-despite-having-planning-permission/a568753809.html

    To me that confirms supports like Help to Buy are the right approach. I don't know what the state can do about the above. Maybe they should take over some of those projects directly for student or social housing.



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