As long as you can do it on the sofa: The Trends for Job-seeking in Ireland & Europe

I think most of us who move out and about a bit, or are nonetheless observing trends, are aware of the diminishing number of people who are willing to do work that involves physicality, ie moving about. Now I say this in my cosy ivory tower of retirement in modest means, but I can well imagine wishing to join ranks with these folks.

However it’s becoming a crisis. We’ve seen it in our airport chaos, our hospitality sector is struggling, there’s a lot of vibes of discontent among people, eg, who pour you your coffee. I can see exactly where they are coming from.

I had a job that required roughly 50/50 thinking brain & physicality.  If I were still in the workplace, the lazy physical inclination I have plus the love of keeping intellectually involved, I think I might have badly desired to switch to my bum on the bedspread and a laptop on my lap. It would not have been possibly in my line of work although my colleagues not yet retired were accorded tasks to fill social

Media content during lockdown. A bummer to then commute to work, & face grumpy customers. Nope, I would not have dealt with that well.

Extrapolating from my own inclinations, I can well empathise with the European workforce trend, which is indeed tending to recruit from further afield. Maybe we need an abundance more of AI to do the durty work . 

kippy

AI ain't great for dirty work. The people who do the physical and dirty work in years to come will be extremely well paid (relative to now) for doing it. We see trends in this area already.

Younger people have generally been doing less and less physical work or work in general as time has gone on and been conditioned to feel like college and the 'soft' job after it is the only path. To the point that even changing bulbs becomes a task for someone else.

Younger people tend to get bored easier from what I've seen and jobs that are perceived as boring won't appeal to them despite boredom being very normal in lots of jobs and course.

Back in my day etc.....

Leg End Reject

I think a big issue the airports and hospitality sector has is the low pay and casual hours they offer. Who wants to pay to travel to work at short notice for minimum wage and not know what they'll earn week to week?

The hospitality sector has benefited from reduced VAT too.

I think boredom in

sofa jobs is just as profound, but the advantage is you don’t have the commute, nor do you have to look Karens & Kens in the eye as you serve their coffee wrong.

buried

I do physical work and I am literally up to my eyes with it, I have to turn away jobs. My advice to young people, go get a physical, hands on, trade immediately. The older trade masters are going and nobody is there to fill the demand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483148#Comment_119483148

Yep, they killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

Sacked over Covid, those studied up different things to get possibly different work. The newbies were naturally not attracted to such abysmal working conditions for responsible jobs, when they see such possibilities of better employment out there.

now when I say people like to be on their bum, we’ll some get in the habit of it, and it’s hard to breAk, others have genuine medical issues which force or encourage them there.

Hiwver I do see there is a rapid demand/shift towards AI to do tasks such as cleaning. I attended Chelsea Flower Show earlier this year and in my Travelodge Hotel had to dodge a. Automated vacuum cleaner. We are in transition; this is the future.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483180#Comment_119483180

I couldnt agree more....bricklayers, carpenters, electricians etc will be impossible to get in a few years.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483180#Comment_119483180

And to learn from, which is a disaster. As my wise old next door neighbour from Galway used to say: “you cannot use your hands without using your brain as well , you must use them both”.

Akrasia

Skilled tradespeople are absolutely a really viable career path for young people. Unskilled labour is low paid and dead end work with no future

I'm not saying nobody should take those jobs. I strongly believe in minimum wage laws so that people who do these jobs are given a living wage and not exploited.

Many of the highest paid jobs are the least productive. Often toxic jobs make things worse than if they had stayed in bed (eg lobbying for fossil fuels to reduce action on climate change)

SnuggyBear

I want to sit on the sofa and do no work.

buried

I find it extremely difficult to hire an apprentice for my trade. I try to give young people some sort of start, but they want nothing to do with it after literally a day, they complain that it is too physical, I constantly try to explain that I too found the trade physical at the start but the benefit you get from it in time, both economically and mentally soon outweighs any problem you encounter at the start, but you may as well be talking to a jellyfish. They are so engrossed in the world of the immediate situation, they can't see any further. It is seriously worrying, not for me, but for them.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483222#Comment_119483222

Dont worry, in Ireland you can get paid for that and maybe get a free house aswell.....

riffmongous

I'd like to see it become more possible for an older person to take up a skilled trade, if the money is as good as some people say it is. I know a lot of people in their late 20 - 30s who have a great interest in trades work as a hobby (myself included) who would appreciate being able to step out of the office rat race and do something they enjoy. The current set up makes it seem essentially impossible though

SnuggyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483238#Comment_119483238

Why? I don't see how you couldn't pick up a trade at that age?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483222#Comment_119483222

We may sit together, or better still like in bed with heads propped on pillow.

I worked in libraries, a lot of pushing, shoving, carrying, boxing, practical stuff as well as manipulating databases and getting cosy with Unix.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483248#Comment_119483248

Like I said, I know plenty of people that age who are good hobby woodworkers, electricians, etc. and now if there are no young people doing this work and if the money is good enough then why not try

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483238#Comment_119483238

The problem with that is, in a lot of highly skilled trades you need to hire a younger person because they have always had that sponge type brain scenario where they will easily pick up the skills and eventually (hopefully) surpass the skills of the tradesman who taught them, because the knowledge becomes ingrained into their own mind from an early age and they can then add their own tweeks and intuition into the trade in time to make the trade flourish even further. That's what happened to me. It's actually an integral part into hiring an apprentice, to see them flourish. To see the trade flourish.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483238#Comment_119483238

Absolutely. I have a very clever relative who got to PhD level in late 60s after having lost her young mother to cancer just at point of LC. Now if she had sought to become a plumber (as a “middle class/posh” colleague of mine expressed an interest to do it later in life) I doubt the opportunities would be there.

There were better opportunities for my cousin to progress late in life in academia.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483299#Comment_119483299

If there's not enough young people doing it though is it not worth trying? Trades will hardly flourish if there is barely any one doing them, or people with little interest

Leg End Reject

The new, self-appointed middle class of the Celtic Tiger era decided that Tristan and co should all go to third level, aptitude and employability after be damned, lest they appeared working class. Third levels institutions gladly obliged with many a Mickey Mouse course. The collapse of the construction sector after the bust has unfortunately reinforced that thinking.

Now they all wonder why they can't get a tradesman, especially for small jobs and curl their lip at the cost. To cut costs they'll go with cowboys and look down on trades even more.

Apprenticeships really need to be encouraged as viable career choices, not just a fallback for the less academically minded.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483326#Comment_119483326

This is the problem. Young people don't want to do them, in my experience because they are too afraid of the actual physicality and weight of the particular that work I do. The demand is there, like I said, I am up to my eyes with work, so much so I have to turn it down, but that is because I have no apprentice's. Now, I could hire somebody in their 30's-40's to help me and I can pay them, but that won't continue the future for the skills for the trade, a skilled trade which I respect and want to see continue. Demand for my trade should continue, but to be honest, the authorities in this country have treated my trade like a sore on their ar$e that doesn't even matter.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483356#Comment_119483356

Ah ok, I think I get you now. Yeah for a highly skilled trade I can imagine it's tougher alright

Still stihl waters 3

The thing about physical trades is that statistically you don't live as long and have more musculoskeletal diseases, I'm in the buildings since I was 15 and have had to reinvent myself a couple of times due to shoulder, hip and back problems, no amount of money compensates you for being crippled before 50, not everyone is like that of course but I know more than my share of tradesmen who can barely tie their bootlace and suffer from a range of ailments, anyone in the plastering, blocks, tiling, groundworkers or roofing games are more or less finished by the time they're 55, plumbers, electricians don't count as they're mostly sissys lol

Cunw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483231#Comment_119483231

If you don't mind, which trade are you ?

You can pm if you'd like

...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483238#Comment_119483238

I worked in the library service, retired now. I had a colleague whose hobbies were carpentry & plumbing, and even in her 40s she said she kind of would like to do it as a career, but the librarian’s pension was beckoning.

bucketybuck

Its one thing saying that you would like to become a tradesman in your 40's, quite another to actually go and do it.

Even lads doing it all their lives struggle with the sore knees and back from kneeling in tight places or working with arms above their head, somebody coming into it fresh is destroyed very quickly. A hobby is one thing, getting up every morning to do that physical labour is another thing entirely.

And thats without getting into the accumulation of knowledge. Apprentices start young because it takes a long time to learn all the nuances of being a good tradesman, it only comes with experience. An 18 year old apprentice becomes a good tradesman in his 30's.

Somebody starting in his 40's might become good in his 50's, except that he's probably not fit for it any more at that age.

Its one of those things that people talk about but the reality is that there is no law against older people starting a trade, but it doesn't happen because its not a good choice for people that age.

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483238#Comment_119483238

In the factory where I work, there were two maintenance fitter apprenticeships announced a few years ago. The two lads that got them were in their early 40s, even though other younger people had also applied. They trained on the job, did their stint in college, and are now qualified. 10 years previously, another lad here was in his 30s when he started his electrical apprenticeship, and that worked out well for him too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483299#Comment_119483299

Obviously, there are advantages of working with a blank canvas, as well as the fact that the younger apprentice has potentially more time to give back, but the experience of the older person can stand to them too. The lads I mentioned above didn't go to college after finishing school but after starting here, eventually got promoted to more technical jobs before the appreniceships. That experience can have mixed effects (good knowledge Vs bad habits, for example) but overall I reckon it's a good thing.

Apart from the skilled trades, there’s massive employment gaps in the service and hospitality industries, and public facing roles. People are now less inclined to want to interact with people face-to-face as there’s quite a complaint culture and high expectations. It’s one thing dealing with people over the phone but “confronting” them face-to-face adds a dimension of having to maintain the stiff upper lip. You can’t playfully raise eyebrows as you might at the end of a phone line 😂

Ray Palmer

When I was younger I was sure I didn't want to spend all my day in an office or at home. Thought I would be a civil engineer working in an office and visiting building sites so a mix of both. Had been on many a building site growing up. As I was studying I realised I didn't want to be on a building site which was mostly down to the people I would be working with but also an element of how dangerous sites are.

I bummed around a bit and did various customer facing jobs from bar work to call centres and for a while held a few different jobs at the same time. Decided I didn't want to be on a low wage not dealing with retail/service customers so went into IT and ended up working from home. Love it now but it was hard moving up the ranks to get here. I know I would be miserable if I stayed in low paying menial work. I saw the lifers in low paying work and many just were not capable of much more than they were doing. That was the best of their abilities but still dead end jobs.

There is a huge change and expectation of such jobs now which I am not sure I agree with. Supplementary income was what these jobs were seen as all my life. Checkout jobs in shops was never a living wage job but extra income for students and housewives based on a main income coming into the household. Now people want these wages to be primary incomes and living wages. I do understand the argument that ever job should be a livable wage but it is a huge economic change as opposed to a restoration of conditions. Do we really expect a single person working in a super market to be able to buy a property?

I completely get why people don't want to work in the airport, hotels, restaurants etc... Bad conditions, unstable hours, pandemic effects etc... Other jobs are about that pay better and more stable hours. I know banks are having trouble filling their contact centres so seems better to go work there instead, although I never want to work in a call centre again.

Conditions in jobs will change but there are places where flexibility of staff and employers make sense. A music venue that only opens for events can't really guarantee hours as it is dependent on booking. With some changes suggested these places would have major issues with staff. This also applies to large country hotels where many locals pick up extra hours during the busy times.

OP the main thing is you are overly judmental of a situation you aren't in and the path you took doesn't exist anymore. Things have to change but it isn't going to be the way people want. They are just going to remove staff and replace them with automation. Which ever is cheaper is what a company will do. In the USA they have people in little booths in carparks while we have automated machines, simply because it is cheaper to hire a person in the US.