Does Fianna Fáil have a political future?

micosoft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459603#Comment_119459603

I've explained. Both want pow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455656#Comment_119455656

FF were never the party of "people with no property". They were the party of the land commission - representing small farmers and the small trades. The entire country is a cold place for social conservatives because you made such an appalling mess of the first 70 years of independence. We aren't going back to being a clericalist state end of. The simple fact is you are a tiny minority. The PD's revolutionised the state and ironically disappeared because their policies (an outward facing entrepreneurial state that leverages it's position between the EU and US to be fantastically wealthy for a rock in the middle of the Atlantic) were so astonishingly successful we went from a country with huge emigration to one with so much net immigration housing is a huge problem.

I get the constant drumbeat from SF HQ and the genius idea of created the FFFG portmanteau but this is merely a device to distance the actual clones SFFF. Neither had any real policy other than to be in power. Ironically, the bigger the SF vote, the closer to power, the less "radical" their "ideas" and the more like FF they become. FF Nua in other words.

People were asking where the talent was for FF. They went to SF. Mary Lou was in FF in Trinity when she decided her career prospects were improved by jumping over to SF. Likewise most of the others would have gone to FF. There is zero cross over with FF and FG in terms of the people and jumping.

micosoft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461884#Comment_119461884

Completely agree. The pattern has always been FF (and now SF) come in and crash Ireland through populist but economically suicidal policies.

• Dev stopping land rent leading to the Anglo Irish Trade war in the thirties impoverishing a poor country so much it looked like North Korea. Only WW2 save Ireland from collapsing as the British had to give in.
• Jack Lynch eliminating the wealth tax of property tax leading to the collapse of Irish Revenues during the eighties and the worst recession we had since the thirties (while rest of Europe was ok!)
• Bertie and Co elected in three times in a row by the usual lot (where have Berties voters disappeared to?) to sell each other houses when plenty were warning - leading to the infamous McCreevy statement of "When I have money I spend it". The lies about FG having a decade to solve housing when we had the IMF in until 2013 when we literally lost our sovereignty.

FG, Labour, Greens had to come in every time to put it back together and yet take the blame from an easily swayed part of the electorate. Those voters who voted for the above disasters are simply moving to SF because FF under Martin has gone relatively straight. There is a space in Irish politics for a party of economic suicide, the mantle has just changed. It will be interesting to see what type of recession we will create for ourselves by 2027...

NOG92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119471433#Comment_119471433

100%. And that is what makes me honestly think too that the only thing stopping FF from regaining its former crown is FF itself. As mentioned above, the front bench is devoid of talent; it's unbelievable.

The party ought to be making political hay. The electorate are fed up with FG, not wholly because of anything they've done or failed to do, but simply because they've been in power since 2011. People are just tired and want a change but FF don't offer anything different.

If anything, they just appear to be a less competent, less sleek, less unified version of FG. And truth be told, those being mooted as possible future leadership contenders for the party are just so unimpressive. I genuinely could look to every other party in the Dáil and name one of their TDs who could replace its current leader, but not with FF. Having said that, despite being a first time TD I actually think the party's best performer at the minute is Norma Foley. But even then it speaks volumes of the party that her name is never even mentioned in the leadership debate, and instead we're given the likes of O'Callaghan, Darragh O'Brien, Cowan, McGrath and Chambers...each one more uninspiring than the last 🙄

NOG92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119471542#Comment_119471542

Just give Stephen Donnelly time...😏😂

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119471542#Comment_119471542

wanting power and being in power are two different things. You didnt explain anything

Sunny Disposition

It's hard to see a future for FF tbh, but we said that about FG 20-30 years ago. Really the two parties need to merge. There have always been very few differences, and the internal cultures aren't as different as they once were, the historical bitterness is far less powerful and virtually certain to decline further with the passage of time.

Podge_irl

For all the talk of them "needing" to merge, Its exceptionally hard to see an FF/FG joint party resulting in 73 seats in the last election and I suspect that even as their numbers of seats potentially goes down the logic will remain for some time.

Ham_Sandwich

Finna Fail and Finna Gael are two sides of the same coin there full of crooks and chancers the people are going to vote Sinn Fein in and well be looekd after once there in power.

Potatoeman

They won’t disappear as much as I wish they would. They had the banking bailout now another blank cheque for the refugee crisis. They love burning tax payers money. The reason they won’t disappear is because new local politicians will join as their family have a history in the party and locals will vote for they’re favoured politicians as they “look after us” even as the party leaders in government do everything they can to make their life difficult. Though the current housing crisis may be the last stray. When parents and family see this generation having their life choices limited while refugees are hosted in hotels the mood will quickly turn. FFs real problem is that they seem to consistently ignore back benchers. They could have a full on revolt as the sh*t hits the fan.

Floppybits

This Robert Troy stuff forgetting to declare houses and what not to SIPO is not doing anything good for FF. Most people are saying that is just standard FF behaviour and no comment coming from FF either

NOG92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485321#Comment_119485321

Nothing from FF about their wayward Councillor but plenty of support from Varadkar and FG! In the article below Leo describes Troy as 'Top Class', no less. Could this be yet another sign that the slow merger between FF and FG is gaining pace...?

https://m.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-describes-fianna-fails-robert-troy-who-hid-property-sales-to-local-authorities-as-top-class-41918430.html

kayfabe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464935#Comment_119464935

Even if they get their **** together they are a spent force. Many people will never forget how quickly they turned and abandoned every one of their principles just to get into government.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486415#Comment_119486415

Got more of their manifesto done than FG did. Held back the Thatcherite elements of FG at the time.

People gave FF a huge increase in seats after doing virtually nothing to correct their economically illiterate behaviour

The other things is that the wind was already going out of their sails electorally by the election date in 2011. People act as if they were a 50+ seat party with strong or equal control on that government, bases on the few polls that were in the 30s. That isn't how the votes actually went.

Tonesjones

"Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin has said his party will not form a "grand coalition" with Fine Gael after the general election.

Mr Martin said his party was only interested in creating a new government with other "centre" parties such as Labour and the Greens.

Asked if he would consider a confidence and supply agreement, similar to how his party supported the Fine Gael-led minority Government over the last four years, Mr Martin said Fianna Fáil was not interested in such an arrangement"

What an absolute shite talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486442#Comment_119486442

Almost as 'shite' as SF claiming that it 'won' the election!

Or Sabina Coyne's lesser half assuring us that he would be a one-term president.

Or Saint Gerry of the Falls telling us that he was never in the IRA.

Face it, only a complete buffoon would take any Irish politician at his or her word.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486442#Comment_119486442

Then covid happened.....

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486415#Comment_119486415

Principles? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489787#Comment_119489787

What's your solution?

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490065#Comment_119490065

So covid was the only reason Michael Martin lied?

That man's first words were lies

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490322#Comment_119490322

The election happened when covid was something in China and was nothing to be concerned about, soon after we shut the country down

Remember the “winner” of teh election went into a disappearing act very quickly

FG who came out and said they would be the opposition ended up sitting running the government during covid while everyone played a game of “find the SF leader”

It was only after FF, FG, Greens came together to form a government we suddenly had some of the other parties pop up to tell us all how awful it was.

Fact is covid hit, some parties seen this was going to be huge and ran for the hills

Any statement made pre covid totally irrelevant

My company released a statement in Dec 2019 saying that WFH was not available for majority of staff and that the people using WFH would have to be in office for 4 days a week. Now the entire company is max 2 days a week in office. Should I call them liars?

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490344#Comment_119490344

Are you saying that FF and FG only went into government together because of Covid?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490704#Comment_119490704

Well who else was going to form a government?

Mongfinder General

They went into government to keep SF out. You need a minimum of 40% of 1st preference votes and a healthy tranche of transfers to get 80+ seats. FF/FF have been averaging about 45% combined in the polls since the last election. They’d need closer to 50% to not require greens support.

The electoral reform act will be interesting. The carry on between elections in “adjusting” boundaries in key constituencies has surely influenced results. You only half to look at Tullymandering and the catastrophe that was as an indicator.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490790#Comment_119490790

Id disagree, FG were actively saying they'd be in opposition. Covid was the main reason.

The largest thing keeping SF out was SF.

Now next time they go in together it will be to keep SF out

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490990#Comment_119490990

Best of luck selling that to voters before the next election

NOG92

What's people's thoughts on the coalition staying the course and lasting the remainder of its term? I have heard interesting arguments made by both those who say it will, and those who believe it'll fall sooner than the 2 years left. I find myself changing my mind daily, especially when I see headlines like this. Are these stories just Kite flying and faux in fighting, or do they point to genuine friction within cabinet?

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491132#Comment_119491132

Nothing new is it, FG have always hated the poor

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491132#Comment_119491132

Not one of the three parties involved wants an election. If there's a boost to FG when Leo re-takes the top seat at the end of the year, they'll pull the plug - otherwise it would need a significant revolt and loss of another four or five seats to cause it to go early.

Berties FF Governments all worked in tiny, cobbled together majorities. They both went full term.

NOG92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491165#Comment_119491165

Yeah I tend to agree with this view. I just don't see an appetite within any of the three parties for going to the people early. This is because, if present polling is to be believed, many FF, FG and Green seats will be lost even in traditionally strong FF/FG areas. There's been a lot of glammer about budget disagreements. But if it was pulled down prior to the budget, we'd be looking at an election heading into the late autumn/early winter and everyone knows the perils of such a prospect 🙈

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491132#Comment_119491132

The newspapers have figured out any article which says the coalition will fail automatically gets shares/clicks etc online. So the majority of articles these days have the same over the top headline, a lot of times when you read the actually article you know its all BS....

These are people doing a job, a lot of people at some stage have worked in a large company etc which have loads of different people with different opinions etc but they still managed to do a job at the end of the day. Do you honestly believe that every single item up for discussion with the government ends up in the claimed huge fights the press lead us to believe?

Like the turf recently when it was seemingly everyone v the Greens, then you look at 2019 and both FF and FG agreed to ban turf but they had different opinion on how fast to ban> Yet if we believe the press the banning of turf was never mentioned till the Greens came into power

All BS