Am I mssing something? Don't think so. We're being conned!

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119470695#Comment_119470695

Yup, charge 12k and pay €0. Charge €12,001 and you pay tax on it all. 5-6k

Every "single property" property landlord would drop their rent overnight and that's a good 70% of the market.

Anyone renting at 1800 a month would suddenly have 800 a month back in their pockets. The landlord would also have 800 in theirs.

It's not a rent cap, that has failed In every city it was ever in, and only drives up rent prices. It's not a relief that only benefits the landlord or the renter. The tax payer gets a stable and predictable rental market. And a cheaper social housing bill each year. Everyone wins.

Varik

The Social housing bill would decrease by the same amount the tax revenue drops by.

The property itself is continuously rising in value but the return is set, you'd be lagging behind the government set limit and all the fighting to amend it every so often. Assuming some agreed rates by house type, but you'd want regional rates too or you' have a 1m house in Dublin at 12k/yr vs 100k house somewhere else. You'd then have every Dublin based TD protesting and campaigning why donegal gets cheaper than Dublin.

You could very easily destroy the last remaining interest from small LL in entering the market.

There's already a mindset from LL of the Gov of what they'll introduce next, even if at the time of introduction it was a decent return it won't be for long.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119472188#Comment_119472188

How many small landlords have a €1 million houses rented out to someone that is struggling to meet their rising rent demands? It seems like a real outlier.

Any landlord earning 24k or lower is better off reducing to 12k and going tax-free, even if you don't make a big saving, the reduction in the hassle of doing tax returns would be worth it.

Any landlord that wants to charge more is free to do so. So if they do have a €1mill home rented out to some rich guy then they can charge them the top market rate. Remember there is no cap. If they want to change.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464242#Comment_119464242

Hey dude.

For 10 years your landlord has provided you with somewhere to live!

Sure for every seller there is a buyer, but all buyers are not equal. Compare a REIT to a private landlord for example.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464395#Comment_119464395

The point was to indicate that perhaps being a property owner isnt all sunshine and rainbows as some poster like to make out.

The poster in question wants to maintain the flexibility to move out of area whenever they want and not take the risk of buying a property, yet they cant see anything their landlord is doing for them.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480097#Comment_119480097

I should be on my knees thanking the landlord for me paying off most of his mortgage so?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480141#Comment_119480141

How much would the property cost to buy now? You paid €220k in rent so the landlord got about €110k and you think that paid most of the mortgage? Even if the property was €110k you wouldn't have paid most of the mortgage as they charge interest. You are lying to yourself and just not factual

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480426#Comment_119480426

lol

Considering I've only been renting 10 years there and mortgages usually are 25 years you'd be damn hoping I wouldn't have paid off most of the 25 year mortgage. I obviously meant most of the mortgage in the period I was renting..you landlords don't have the best reading comprehension.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480141#Comment_119480141

Only if you think your employer pays your rent just because you use your wage to do so. You are paying for use of the property, what the owner does with the money is his/her business.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460633#Comment_119460633

Why would you have to "police" that aspect? Let the Revenue take care of it.

If the house is vacant, then you pay the vacancy levy. If you have someone renting off you, then you have to register the tenancy and pay income tax on the declared rent. If you declare an absurdly low rent to avoid tax, then it sets a benchmark for all future rents tied to the property.

Revenue can also calculate any gift tax due on allowing people to stay in your house for "free". If you get your kid to "live" there on paper, then the Revenue can let the value accrue against their lifetime CAT allowance.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481377#Comment_119481377

Even within what you said, there is lots of different ways around it, no one is going to support gift taxes for siblings/cousins/children staying in a property or setting a fake market rent for them, without going through handling holiday homes or people who genuinely have 2 properties they use.

It's a nice idea in theory, but the application of it would only lead to the very few paying it.

magicbastarder

it might not solve the problem, but it does seem to be possible for local authorities to CPO empty or derelict houses:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/louth-council-acquires-35-vacant-houses-by-compulsory-purchase-1.3216231

IIRC there's some heistancy to do this at a government level lest it might be seen as interfering with the constitutional right to own a property (which is qualified); but you'd think the government would be gunning for this, because it'd actually be something that'd look like they were taking action.

even if the government set up a central fund (possibly after a referendum on the topic, and i suspect we know how that would go); for the local authorities to seize derelict property, just take any actions to make it safe, and sell it at auction. if the owner appears, they get whatever was earned at auction minus the council's costs.

there's a street i lived on in phibsboro with two adjoinng houses which have been derelict for over two decades; the council have had to step in several times to prevent them creating a danger to pedestrians passing, and it's an insult to common sense that they should not just assume ownership by now.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481476#Comment_119481476

Nothing will every be 100% foolproof, but technically speaking, getting something free or at reduced rate like is considered a gift at the minute. The reason that people might get away with currently avoiding tax implications from it might simply be that there is not be a record of it. But that is people avoiding the tax rather than it not existing. For relations, there are also certain lifetime limits along with annual limits (I think 3k per year is the annual limit for regular gifts)

If registered as an official tenant to avoid a vacancy levy, then there would either have had to be tax paid on the rental income, or CAT for the gift. The important distinction is the record. With no vacancy levy, the person would not be registered.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480141#Comment_119480141

I'm not sure you understand how the economy works...you pay him for a service that you cant or choose not to provide for yourself.

What exactly is your problem with paying for the service you receive?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119470937#Comment_119470937

What hole in taxation receipts does that cause our budget?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481512#Comment_119481512

I agree that that should be considered. However, a higher priority issue would be for the Council to actively use their own properties that they already have. There is a Council owned house near me that has been lying empty for more than 15 years. They have another one about 2 miles away which has been vacant for the same time but the latter is not habitable and was empty for maybe 20 years before they bought it. Both had land attached to them and at the time the Council employees were effectively playing "speculator" with public money. The explanations at the time was that they would buy these random properties and have them to hedge against rises in value of other land they might later want to buy to use for themselves.

There are regular accounts of houses being boarded up for 6+months when a council tenant moves out.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481573#Comment_119481573

Where did I say I have a problem with paying?

You seem to think that when I say landlords are getting very wealthy, and that they shouldn't be getting any more tax breaks that I am against landlords existing.

I'm fine with paying my rent. I have a problem with people making out like landlords are loss making and are only letting houses for the good of the renter.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481541#Comment_119481541

When there's lots of ways to legitimately avoid (which is completely legal) a tax, a very few % will actually pay it, the enforcement of it alone would be almost impossible at any level that was of benefit to the exchequer. It's a slogan tax rather than one that would solve any problem.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481799#Comment_119481799

What are you referring to there? CAT for gifts or a hypothetical vacancy tax which can be brought in and be adjusted over time

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480531#Comment_119480531

Which you didn't do either

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481830#Comment_119481830

Well the house is actually 28 years old so there's every chance there's no mortgage on it and it's pure clean profit.

But if there was a mortgage still on it, the price paid 28 years ago would be a fraction of what it's worth now.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481828#Comment_119481828

Sure, but no rational political party would do so, even the alphabet soups would end up split on it (PBP/Rise/People's Front).

Vacancy tax - yay

Will mean taxes on what you provide to your children and family - boo

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482076#Comment_119482076

It won't mean any extra taxes for children. It will just mean that people will be less likely to declare any such gifts. If giving a property to a child rent free, it will just go against their lifetime limits. It won't result in tax being handed over now.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482159#Comment_119482159

But tax will be handed over eventually, so it does mean extra taxes for children.

Either way, my point there is that it's not a popular measure for any party to bring in, so it won't happen, the politicians pushing for a "vacant property" tax, won't enforce it correctly so only a few people with more money than sense (i.e. not have an accountant or a brain) will end up paying it, and if they were to try and enforce, the actions of actually enforcing it would be deeply unpopular and thus never happen.

It's a slogan tax.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481840#Comment_119481840

You get the same service (i.e. a roof over your head) whether the property has a mortgage on it or not so I don't know why you are bugged by this.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482209#Comment_119482209

No, it doesn't mean extra tax. It means that they are less likely to be able to evade the tax they are currently liable for.

Regardless, the situation we are talking about is one where a person falsely claims that a child is living in a house in order to evade a vacancy tax.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481840#Comment_119481840

You seem to have a failure to understand. Mortgages cost money making the price you pay for a house is a lot larger than the purchase price. Then there is tax on the rental income along with other expenses. While renting you didn't need to buy a fridge, cooker, microwave etc... Your rent was for more than the property. You can twist it anyway you like but is never true a tenant pays landlord's mortgage as you never have the liabilities the landlord has. You paid for a service which you got.

Whether there is a mortgage or not is none of your business you pay to have a service. Do you go into the supermarket and complain their prices should be cheaper because they own the building?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483990#Comment_119483990

Clearly didn't read any of my posts. I have been renting 10 years and the landlord has spent approximately 500 euro between everything. A pittance.

A boiler that was called a death trap by my plumber and told to have all windows open when running the boiler because it was putting fumes into the house, that they refused to fix...what a service!

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481840#Comment_119481840

None of which has anything to do with the rent you pay.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481606#Comment_119481606

Any incentives would be to.....incentivise....people to stay and become landlords.