Croi Conaithe (Towns) - Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant

Miss123

@shivvykxoxo thank you so much it would be great to have another councils opinion on it.

anyone I’ve spoke to is of the same opinion as us that BER doesn’t apply to the vacant property grant.

I’ve asked a local councilor to look into it, he spoke to another official in the vacant homes unit who said the BER B2 definitely comes into it, but I’m still waiting to see it in guidelines / legislation.

Today, for the third time in writing I’ve asked my local authority to advise where I can find it in the guidelines. Surely if it’s a condition it would need to be more wide spread.

Miss123

@shivvykxoxo best of luck with your inspection, if you can at all use it to get as much information from the council as possible.

thank you so much that would be brilliant, interesting to see what another councils view is on it. Anyone I’ve spoke to isn’t aware of the BER condition nor can I find it anywhere online. I’ve also asked them 3 times to advise me where I can find it in guidelines / legislation but of coarse they’ve turned on the silent treatment.

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552393#Comment_120552393

This of any help?

Nothing to do with the grant.

Miss123

@MicktheMan thanks for that! Even the works mentioned on that (wall and roof etc) isn’t related to works which we applied for under the Vacant property grant so it’s confusing to see where the council are getting this from.

Our house has been vacant but not derelict, we aren’t building any extensions or replacing roofs etc.

shivvykxoxo

@Miss123 Yes I’ll try get as much information as possible from the inspector today and comment back here later.

If it turns out this is a requirement it will rule so many applicants out. It would take huge money to bring a vacant/derelict property up to a B2 rating. I think we’d all have a strong case to appeal this anyway as there is absolutely no mention of it anywhere in the grant documents online.

shivvykxoxo

@Miss123 So our inspector from Dublin City Council came out to see our property today. I asked him about the BER requirement and he said as far as he was aware this does not apply to this grant. He said it’s likely a separate requirement by certain building regulations (probably what MicktheMan posted about) but the local councils shouldn’t be looking for proof of this in terms of paying out the grant. I would 100% be appealing your case if they continue to ask for it.

peacock_lane

Aren’t the inconsistencies in the application of these rules kind of frightening? I get that the published guidelines for general consumption are pretty vague but you would think whatever handbook they’re using to assess the applications would be pretty black and white.

Miss123

@shivvykxoxo Thanks so much for asking the inspector. As I thought, doesn’t appear to be a condition of the grant and more so a loop hole to pit applicants through. Hopefully you will get a decision soon, unlike us inspection in February and still none the wiser!

Miss123

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/255857/74cbe707-688a-478a-a2fb-02880b896cec.pdf#page=null

Q1 2023 stats, least it’s an improvement on 2022. Looks like 1 person in Mayo actually got paid out successfully

stotheototheb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578206#Comment_120578206

interesting!

Amazing the new scheme was announced as open on 01 May 2023 and the department have not yet an application form out for it 😲

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557189#Comment_120557189

compliance with building regulations is not a "loophole"

you need to realise whether in the first instance you need to comply with the "major renovations" aspect of Part L, and if so, what you have to do to comply.

Achieving a B2 rating is not the only way of complying, especially if your starting from a G rating. there is a "cost optimal" way of complying.

From my experience with other grants (adaptation grants / roof replacements etc), at some stage some jobsworth in an office will point out that all these grant assisted works must comply with building regulations and planning permission, so proof of same could be asked at any stage. This would be by means of an "opinion on compliance" on completion.

Miss123

@sydthebeat my local authority have not mentioned complying with any building regulations to which I would not have a problem doing so for everyone’s safety, instead just said that we need to meet a B2 rating when the works are done.

I am not disagreeing with complying to any building regulations, hence why professionals are being hired to the works.

we are not doing a major renovation- no extensions, roof works, wall/structure work. To give an idea the house has been vacant and kept an eye on by a next door neighbor (for safety reasons / leaks etc) for up to 4 years now it is not in a derelict state.

To clarify, my reference to a loophole is in relation to people having to satisfy B2 energy rating before being paid on this grant, as you can see no one else who has had any dealings with the grant is aware of this condition. I have also requested further information on a B2 rating condition of the vacant property refurbishment - guidelines or legislation from my local authority to which I have not received.

Hi all. It’s been really interesting reading everyone’s comments. I’ll be applying for these grants (vacant and derelict) via Tipperary Council. They actually have a new person dedicated to vacant homes. He was kind enough to send me the updated forms which I’ve attached. I hope they’re of help to this forum.

Designed Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant Scheme Outline 10.05.23.pdf

Application Form - Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant (11.05.2023).pdf

Weststar Automatic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583099#Comment_120583099

Thanks Deepesh for uploading the forms. I will be hopefully applying for the derelict/vacant grants as well. The house I have needs a lot of structural work and between a new roof, windows new chimney maybe an external wall as well as new floor. with radon barrier and insulation This would eat into the grant. My question is can I spend the grant money on this part of the build or do I have to draw the money down on all the various categories such as skirtings doors etc. I trying to get my head around the conditions they have laid out and the practicalities of fixing the house.

TessC

One change in the update of the scheme is that approval is now only valid for 13 months instead of 18. Depending on how much work there is to be done, that might be quite a tight timeline.

And the FAQs now specifically address the question of when you can move in to the property i.e. that you can't move in after submitting your application. I don't think that was there previously.

Ubbquittious

Will they make you put in a BioCycle if you apply for this grant?

shivvykxoxo

Hi @Miss123

Did you get any update from your local council on the B2 energy requirement?

Dozz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605606#Comment_120605606

@shivvykxoxo I enquired with my Council (Kildare) and they said there was no mention of it.

Have also scanned through the new documents and dont see any reference to it either.

I would suggest that you enquire off your own Council to be sure.

Miss123

@shivvykxoxo @Dozz Ive wrote to them by post and email over a month ago and I haven’t heard anything from them. No further details on Ber nor a decision!

I also enquired with department of housing but haven’t had a response from them either.

Dozz

@Miss123 see below link. Hopefully this helps. You can download the documents at the bottom of the page

gov.ie - Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant (www.gov.ie)

Miss123

@Dozz thank you, I’ve reviewed all the documents online so many times but still none the wiser!

Carfacemandog

Edit - question deleted, already answered in the thread.

Gemmagregory85

Hi sorry to jump on. Are you paying the contractor yourself?

We are awaiting an inspection but a little confused about the grant payment time scale and if we would need the money to pay them first. Thank you

Weststar Automatic

well I found out the answer to my own question the council will not pay out the grant until the house is all ready for to live or rent when all the work is finished. I am not sure how much I would have to add to the grant lets say another 70,000 euros to get it to standard. That means I would have to get 140,000 euros to fix the house within a 13 month timeframe. I was hoping I would get the grant for the work that would be finished and then use that money to finish the house.

bemak

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617831#Comment_120617831

I looked into this as well - had hoped the same; that I could get the house substantially complete using the grant and then get smaller loans out to finish things off as and when money became available. The only option now really is to get a loan to cover it all in the hope that you'd get the grant once complete to clear off a chunk of the loan at the end. It adds risk though. You'd want to be guaranteed that you'd get the grant once the works are complete.

Miss123

Just received confirmation today from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage that “There is no requirement to provide a BER certificate upon completion of the works to the property.”

Tuens our my local authority have yet again given us false information.

shivvykxoxo

@Miss123 That’s great to hear. Although it really shouldn’t have taken this long for you to get confirmation! Hope you are able to get working on your house now.

Biker1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636367#Comment_120636367

While they say that is not required, if you are presumably going for the SEAI grants as well then it is absolutely required as they will not pay out without a BER at completion. Also the building regulations are clear that if you are doing a major refurbishment you must achieve a B2.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636367#Comment_120636367

there may be no require to get a final BER in the conditions of the Croi Conaithe grant, but, as above, it is a requirement if you are accessing SEAI grants.

and as biker above says, Part L compliance is a legal requirement as well, so youd want to be very sure exactly what aspects of part L you need to comply with. For the vast vast majority of Croi Conaithe grant assisted works, they will have to comply with the "Major Renovations" aspect of Part L.

Also, be aware that there are other methods of compliance apart from reaching a B2 rating. Check out the "cost optimal" route to compliance, which again i would suggest will be the route that a lot of these dwellings will reach compliance by, due to the extreme low starting point of many of these houses ie G rated.

Miss123

@Biker1 @Syd thank you for the additional points.

The BER requirement which I am referring is solely in relation to the Vacant Property refurbishment grant.

Seai or “major renovations” as part of the building regulations is irrelevant to our situation.