Tesla Model 3 and Model Y Waiting Room and Delivery Queries (No referral links)

sk8board

the insurance Q come up a lot - I worked in insurance actuarial ratings for years.

It’s really simple - insurance quotes are based on the historical cost of claims of those cars.

Tesla claims have been comparatively expensive, due to things like the length of time for repairs (rental replacements etc), cost/availability of parts, and also the Y’s manufacturing process makes crash repairs more expensive.

Finally - It’s not just ‘you’ that the insurance company is insuring, it’s a book of business, with premiums on the one side, and claims on the other.

The power of the car is immaterial too - except for the fact that very powerful cars tend to cause more accidents when in the hands of ‘normal’ drivers. As a simple example - the Model Y is now the biggest selling car on the planet, and it’s a family medium SUV, whereas the BMW M3 is (comparatively) an incredible niche low volume model.

TLDR: The Y is expensive to insure because claims made to date have been very expensive for what is a family medium SUV.

josip

This will be a problem for Tesla I suspect, because their ethos appears to be short term, reactionary, share price oriented at the moment. Even if they did sort out their supply chain and reduced parts waiting times, it sounds like it would take a year before the reduced claims cost would impact the data sufficiently to reduce future premiums. I think we can add high insurance costs to the other reasons people in future will have not to buy a Tesla.

md23040

So on the above logic @ sk8board of supply chain issues for part replacement and other exigencies associated with Tesla or EVs generally - why is the 3 quoted at €312 fully comp with no claims protection.

Btw spoke to Aviva and got the underwriter to look at the case and we’re happy to reinstate the MY at €432. All good again with the world. Fully comp, named drivers and no claims bonus fully insured.

quandrolina

What dates are people getting for Model Y collection in Dublin at the moment? Anyone received a date for collection in Cork?

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173315#Comment_122173315

It really shouldn’t be that big of a factor in decision making for a reasonably expensive car

If you’re buying a €50k+ car, you’re probably accepting somewhere between €20-30k of depreciation costs over 3 years of average ownership time.

In reality an extra €200 or €300 per year in insurance costs is almost irrelevant in the overall context of cost of ownership. But perhaps people will get overly fixated on it.

NeverAroyal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174740#Comment_122174740

I doubt anyone would be expecting the car to depreciate by 50% in 3 years. At least I'm not buying with that expectation. Potentially 10k or 20% will be wiped off in 3 years. That I can subscribe to but defintely not 50%

Jofspring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174843#Comment_122174843

You should definitely be expecting that. If it depreciates a bit less than 50% then brilliant but definitely be expecting 50%. In three years you won't get 35k for a RWD Model Y that's bought now for 45k. Probably be closer to 25k-28k privately and less on a trade in with a dealer.

3d4life

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174843#Comment_122174843

From new around 50% over 3 years would be normal for ICE. Why would EVs be much different ?

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174843#Comment_122174843

A €50k new car selling for €40k after 3 years may have been normalised during the inflation of COVID but it’s absolutely not the long run norm.

In a normal environment you’d be doing well to sell a €50k car for €40k the day after you drive it off the Tesla lot.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174843#Comment_122174843

50% after 3 years is the norm. I wouldn’t expect anything else. You’ll loose the first €10k in the first month or 2.

NeverAroyal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175420#Comment_122175420

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175057#Comment_122175057

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174901#Comment_122174901

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174900#Comment_122174900

Here are 3 model 3s for sale on Donedeal today: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-standard/36793905https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-2021/36981762

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-long-range-75kwh-2020/36942620

All for sale for roughly 30k. Now I don't know what they sold for originally, but the seller couldnt try and sell it for 35+ value-wise because, why would anyone opt for a second-hand when they get a new car for 38k today. Again 38k could become 33k for new Tesla's come February 2025 and your estimate may become relative to today's price. Otherwise where is your evidence to back up such claims of depreciation for a Tesla car.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175507#Comment_122175507

This car was €50k in September 2019.
€27k asking now.

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/36413389

This car was €50k in early 2020.
€24k asking now.

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/36737393

It’s not an exact science but if you budget for 50% after 3 years then you won’t be disappointed.

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175507#Comment_122175507

No one's going to buy a 3 year old car for 30k when a new one is 38k. All of those ads are still going to be for sale in a few months

NeverAroyal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175616#Comment_122175616

Without full details in front of me. A car bought in January 2019, like the one you shared, would mean it was bought 5 years, and almost 5 months ago. With the rough calc of 10% per year depreceation across all cars; electric, petrol, diesel…. that price would be about right.

Lets go back to your statement though 'If you’re buying a €50k+ car, you’re probably accepting somewhere between €20-30k of depreciation costs over 3 years of average ownership time.' So 20-30 is a big range difference for a good standard of car. not a Saab or a Ford.

So lets keep the same parameters, 3 years would be lets say January 2021. you shared a 2020 card with over 100,000 kms on it. Not the same, most people would clock up roughly 10-15,000 per year in that timeframe

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175662#Comment_122175662

Massive difference between what is being listed VS what they're being sold for. I've a stack of Model 3's in my area in my saved cars on DD and all the ones that seem overpriced have been on that list for months. You can price one at 70% of what you paid for it but be prepared for it to just sit there

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174417#Comment_122174417

again - as a simple rule, the model 3 will ONLY be cheaper to insure if the book of business makes sense - premiums on the one hand and cost of claims on the other.

The 3 is an older cheaper (usually!) model with a clear repair network and garage ‘knowledge’ - and crucially it doesn’t use that casting manufacturing process, meaning it’s a more ‘normal’ repair process and commercial write-offs will be far fewer.

I suspect the casting process has lead to cases of Ys being written off where in other marque situations they wouldn’t - and that’s kryptonite for a book of insurance business.
suddenly a €10k repair bill turns into a €45k write off or whatever. A few of those around the country and you’re premiums will rise for certain.

e.g as we all know, Range Rovers are impossible to insure in London. The cost of claims is massive due to completely writing off expensive vehicles that are stolen and vanish.

If an insurance company loses even 5 new range rovers, they’re out c.£500,000, and no amount of premiums would recoup that - so you choose to no longer insure them.

John arse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175942#Comment_122175942

Clarkson won't be happy?

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176130#Comment_122176130

His 17 year old banger is safe lol.

Blue Ice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174595#Comment_122174595

Delivery Sat 25th 12 Dublin, still not reg number hence no insurance very frustrating.

ModelYRWD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174595#Comment_122174595

Hey, My collection was Cork also but when the Delivery date got pushed out to 30th May-14th June I emailed my delivery advisor for an exact date as those were the dates that I had told him I was driving to France, I got no response for 3 days so I rang the Dublin contact number and got through to a true gent who told me that he could squeeze me in for a pick up in Dublin on Wednesday the 29th as the likelyhood for a Cork pickup before than was slim as the cars needed to be transported down, cleaned and plated. Im just sorry I didnt ring on Monday, give them a bell, if you're stuck im sure they'll help. Im in Waterford so its not out of my way to drive to Dublin.

Seb21

Collected my MY today in Dublin. Very straightforward process. Car had 23% and it has HW4 cameras.

Uwakiss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183698#Comment_122183698

Well wear!! When did you get reg number finally?

Seb21

Got reg Thursday afternoon. Was no sign of it in app so rang them and he was able to locate it.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175942#Comment_122175942

Insurance does not work like that, insurance companies reinsure policies with other insurers to limit risk, it’s called reinsurance, if a car crashes causing €1m worth of damage the insurance co will probably be out €50k max

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184310#Comment_122184310

Insurance companies insure their insurance? Through other insurance companies?

Insureception!

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184310#Comment_122184310

Can assure you this is not the case with any of the major Irish insurers. They all retain the first €2m-€10m on any single ‘event’. It would be absolutely impossible to purchase external reinsurance down to €50k (and would also make no sense).

They likely have an arrangement to kick up a percentage of that €2m-€10m to their parent company in UK/Germany/France but that’s purely a capital tool and wouldn’t impact how they think about risk or pricing.

sk8board

the insurance irony wasn’t lost on me early this morning when I watched a slow speed accident involving a Y, which rolled out of a junction in front of the car they hit (wide open junction on to a straight road with great visibility, it’s a very odd accident, the Y clearly didn’t see the other car).
Front drivers corner of the Y into the front passenger corner of the other car.

replacement panels I’m guessing, probably bonnet too.

90pinions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183698#Comment_122183698

Brilliant Seb - I was there myself to pick up MY. Fantastic car and very straight forward.

How do you know it has HW4 cameras as such - I am presuming mine does too.

My AliExpress hub caps landed Friday too so it was perfect timing.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184529#Comment_122184529

Ah sure what do I know after being employed in the reinsurance dept of a major Irish car insurance company with 4-5 layers of reinsurance in play

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188536#Comment_122188536

Been an exec for two major Irish insurers previously. Consulted working with a few of the others and negotiated multiple motor RI placements. What you’ve said doesn’t make sense, I promise. Best guess is you’re confusing an internal capital efficient quota share arrangement for genuine reinsurance risk transfer.