How best to organise for gas shortages

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444271#Comment_119444271

Get a smart plug that knows how much power it is using, it will allow better automation

sandy2000

What price is that installation though. Been quoted 750 which seems steep given the unit is 550 from myenergi themselves. Unfortunately the DIY would be beyond me.

Maybe I should wait for the smart plugs givenergy are allegedly bringing out (my system runs all on theirs so far).

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444271#Comment_119444271

Try to get one rated for continuous output at the given wattage. I picked up a second second-hand oil radiator on adverts but unfortunately it uses a duty cycle and is seemly not designed not for continuous output. Makes it a little bit more difficult for managing surplus. The other oil radiator I have runs for hours at a given wattage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444762#Comment_119444762

€500 fitted all in should be the cost. Add in inflation and maybe 550.

750 is gouging! Price around

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119437909#Comment_119437909

They're not getting gas from Ireland. During winter, we get 25% of our gas supply from the Corrib gas field, with the rest coming from the UK. The UK market is supplied by indigenous fields, pipelines to Norway and to mainland Europe. The European pipeline works both directions. Europe is supplied with gas from UK during the summer (to fill storage) and supplies the UK during the winter. There's going to be a shortage of gas across Europe this winter which will cause price increases.

I don't know if the output from the Corrib gas field can be increased, or if there is a way for the government to cap the gas price from it.

Hopefully we'll get a mild windy winter which will reduce heating demand and increase wind electricity, reducing the amount of gas we need to import and reduce the risk of rationing/power cuts.

unkel

A very easy way for the government to restrict gas use is to make electricity cheaper. These are 10 quid in Amazon. Even with current gas and electricity prices it costs about the same to heat your house during night rate hours with a few of these as it would be with gas

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Warmlite-Adjustable-Thermostat-Protection-Refurbished/dp/B084NWCYZS/ref%3Dsr_1_3?crid=35NXCTUUT49PS&keywords=fan+heater&qid=1659970823&refinements=p_76%3A419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&sprefix=fan+heater%2Caps%2C58&sr=8-3

I used almost zero gas last winter, planning to do the same this winter. We need a lot more wind energy though.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444271#Comment_119444271

Sweet, do please tell us how you did that on https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058224611/solar-pv-monitoring-automation-thread when you suss it out. Or might be someone already doing it there.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444790#Comment_119444790

Crap, I bought 2 oil rads on Donedeal 2 weeks ago in the heatwave. I'll have to check them. 1 runs at 1kwh on lowest, I'd hoped to get something lower like 600w on lowest setting. So won't really work for me. But good to have as a backup just in case. Thought I was a genius buying them in a heatwave when everyone wanted a fan :)

garo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445693#Comment_119445693

Given that about 50% of Ireland's electricity comes from gas powered plants, that's not going to be much use. The gas turbine plants in IOreland have an efficiency of around 50-55% so every kWh you shift from gas to electricity means another kWh used to generate electricity. Might be better during windy preiods and not so good during calm wind periods.

Look at the fuel mix for the last month here: https://smartgriddashboard.com/#all/generation

Drumpot

If you are going to buy a portable heater what do you look out for in terms of electricity usage to run it?

Smart plugs basically connect to your Wi-Fi, but how exactly do you turn them on or off? Do you have to figure out your router login details?

Lastly, what exactly is the home assistant being mentioned and who can you contact to install it?

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573082#Comment_119573082

If you own the electric heaters already, get something that can monitor energy and see how much the heaters will use on each setting. Or look for watts or kilowatts (kw) in the manual if buying a new one. 1000w = 1 kilowatt / kw = 1 unit of electricity per hour.

I was testing a 400W heater the other day and it would be something like 80 quid a month to run it 24 x 7. 400W won't put out a lot of heat. Other heaters I have use up to 2kWh so that's 2 units per hour. Would cost a huge amount to keep them running.

I use these smart plugs and are simple to setup and us: TP-Link Tapo Smart Plug with Energy Monitoring, Works with Amazon Alexa (Echo and Echo Dot) and Google Home, Wi-Fi Smart Socket, Remote Control, Device Sharing, No Hub Required(Tapo P110) : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Control them via an app on the phone and one above also tracks energy usage. So can see what watts each setting on the heater uses. So you only need 1 with the energy monitor (to see what power each device uses), and can then get the non energy ones for other devices. I use them on dishwasher and other devices. Turns a dumb device into a smart device and can get it to come on when you want. Can set a schedule on them or turn on / off by pressing the button on the side. They don't let you turn them off remotely when outside the house, only works on the WIFI in the house (as in can't turn the heater off when you're not home).

Home assistant is for automating + linking all the smart devics in your house. And many levels above where I am at the mo :) So if looking for a simple solution, the type of plugs above are perfect.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573380#Comment_119573380

All illegal.

olestoepoke

About three years ago we installed a 20kw boiler stove and heat hero, heats 10 rads and endless hot water when lit. I've an unlimited supply of logs and carpentry off cuts, might even buy contraband Turf.

Chancer20

We don't have gas to our house as we are very rural, but of course most of our electricity comes from gas powered stations, so I'm talking here about what happens if the power goes off.

Even solarPV owners with battery does not provide a back-up supply unless a change-over switch has been fitted. If, like me, you have no battery, solar doesn't provide any power in the event of a power outage.

We had already invested in a 2500W generator when we were building the house. It's not enough to power the whole house, but enough to keep the fridge and freezers topped up and the well pump powered. All we will do is manually plug these things in using extension cables as we need to. Not brilliant, but there is not much else we can do, nor would we want to. I refuse to invest another €2500 for a battery that might come in useful for the one or two outages we might get. We're also quite sure that, with our luck, the power will go out when the battery is dead anyway, so what's the point in such a huge outlay for such little return.

So its stocking up with firewood for the log burner, keep the laptops charged up and hunker down.

unkel

Anyone with an EV can connect a lowish power pure sine inverter (€100) to the 12V battery, or better, to the DC-DC converter. This will give many days of basic power to the house, just run an extension cord into your house and plug in fridge, internet router, TV, phone chargers, etc.

I actually have done this in the past in power cuts. I've a multitude of batteries, I even used my eBikes battery to power our airfryer at some stage. Mobile power FTW 😂

This can be done with an ICE car too, but the engine would need to be running. And if the car gets stolen like that (with the keys in it), you will not get any insurance payout

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573554#Comment_119573554

What make and model stove is it, thanks

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578001#Comment_119578001

Wondering about that with my 30KW Leaf. What mods do I need to do to the car to get the power from that into the battery backup connection that's currently connected to sofar.

Thinking when the 10kwh runs out from the sofar I could maybe plug the car in somehow?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578602#Comment_119578602

There was a device to do just that but it's gone out of production

https://www.evsiphon.com/setec

MrMusician18

There won't be gas shortages in Ireland, the gas that goes to the Irish and UK markets cannot really be diverted to other markets - the UK continent pipes are going full bore at the moment, so there is no capacity to export more from this supply source.

The issue for the UK and Ireland is a market driven one. The problem we will have is that gas is too expensive for householders, not that it will not be available.

The issue with the electric market and generation is a fundamental issues with the way we have set up our generation. We have closed fossil fuel plants for intermittent renewables without providing sufficient fossil backup for them as well as allowing essentially unrestricted development of massive electricity consumers. This would be happening this winter regardless of gas shortages or wars. Those excuses are a smokescreen.

unkel

Most lead acid batteries can provide about 80A continuously, so about 1000W. My own sine wave inverter is 600W to be on the safe side. I had it connected directly to the 12V battery with a 80A fuse iirc. The car needs to be "on" though so your DC-DC converter can keep providing your 12V battery with juice from the main high voltage battery

And to give you an idea, with your 30kWh Leaf, you could power your fridge, TV, phone chargers and internet router for about a week.

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578661#Comment_119578661

That's if you remember to charge the car 😂

So car on.

Fuse to battery

Sine wave inverter to Fuse

Backup CB to sine wave inverter

Done?

Any issues with leaving the car on?

Girl Geraldine

Does the traction battery keep on supplying 12V into the 12V battery to keep it charged?

Would the car inverter supply sufficient current to maintain the battery against discharge when you have your inverter hooked up to it?

Basically, does the 12V charge feed from the car inverter match the load you want to put on th 12V battery from the house?

Jonathan

I've cleaned up the thread. No illegal activities to be discussed.

@Girl Geraldine anything further of that sort and there will be bans.

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578148#Comment_119578148

Stratford EB20

DC999

Hey, looking to get 1 infrared heater for the house to try it. Might get more if that works. Anyone have any brand they recommend or suggestions having tried them? Should be good in theory for my WFT room (crap insulating and north facing so gets baltic). Old house and no insulation really (bar attic), old windows. Money spent on EV + solar so it's staying like that :)

From what I've read, I think know the limitations. Heats objects directly in front of them (so line of sight needed to heat you + roof mounted seems best location to fit as sorts line of sight problems), no point in them being on when you're not in room (heats you, not the space), good for badly insulated / draughty houses. Better to oversize for the room. Seems the room temp can remain lower as you're being heated - seems perfect for a WFH room where you're in 1 fixed place the whole time.

I know people have got stung cost-wise as left them on all day in unused rooms thinking it was like central heating.

Have been some threads on it but no one recommending / suggesting the ones they use. And some are years old.

Here's the sort of type I mean (ignore the brand): https://smile.amazon.co.uk/KIASA-Infrared-Electric-Low-energy-1195x595x22mm/dp/B082MTNP5G/ref=sr_1_16?crid=298M7YEWP8ELA&keywords=infrared+heater+indoor&qid=1663450948&sprefix=infra%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-16

And I did check and seems they won't cook you from the inside out :) So no unexpected health risks: http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q12691.html

Ta

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119632541#Comment_119632541

I haven't experienced them heaters but going on the physics aspects of it, it's infrared.

You know on a sunny winter day, if your sitting in the sun, in the house through a window. That warmth is the infrared heat.(radiation, as a form of heat transfer, not convection or conductors... House radiators are mis named, a more appropriate term would be "convectors")

YFlyer

If there is a blackout due to a storm i.e. power lines down. Can you used your own microgenerated electricity? Considering there be ESB workers fixing the lines.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633334#Comment_119633334

Technically possible but the standard grant aided Solar PV install is configured to auto disconnect the panels when the grid goes down which means you can’t use your local power.

YFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633476#Comment_119633476

Thanks.

Will that be the same if blackout due to lack of power generated?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633759#Comment_119633759

Yes.