Should a small dog be destroyed because it uncharacteristically nipped someone?

deaglan1

A jack russell terrier apparently bit/nipped? a passerby outside its rural home in Roscommon. The dog had never done anything like this previously. The person bitten/nipped refused any help from the dog's owner to bring her for medical assessment/treatment and opted to go to a hospital/GP? only with a neighbour of the dog owner. The "victim" apparently is not from the locale at all but from a very distant part of the country. According to the dog owner's neighbour, the wound seemed to be superficial. Subsequently, the dog owner received notice to have the dog destroyed, which he is obviously devastated about and does not wish to have undertaken until all other possibilities can be considered. The "victim" remains intransigent and the ruling to have the dog destroyed has been upheld by Roscommon District Court. An appeal to the High Court has given the dog owner some further time. Now, among the numerous possibilities put forward by the owner are to ensure that the dog is restricted to its own home or to have it retrained or to have it (drastic measure) rehomed or to have it assessed by a dog expert to determine if the dog is a danger to society, and if yes, the owner would bring the dog to a location to have her put asleep - in other words anything but having his pet dog destroyed. I find it horrendous that a person who doesn't even live in the area and who will never again be in any "danger" from this little dog would put the dog owner, who is 85 years old with a pacemaker and for whom his dog is everything, through this nightmare with the awful prospect of having his beloved pet destroyed. I do not have access to the court ruling or the basis for same, but surely, numerous alternative options other than destruction of the dog can easily remedy this issue. Does the law simply work in black & white as a processing machine and not take into consideration all parties involved rather than just the "victim." For the dog and for its owner the outcome of destroying a loved pet seems ludicrous considering the number of abandoned/unloved dogs that we have in this country. The dog's name is Kim and there are several accounts regarding her plight online, and there are support sites on Twitter and a petition site on change.org

Retired garda, 85, pleads for his dog's life to be spared after biting incident (msn.com)

Petition · Save Kim · Change.org

I was informed on a separate posting of this issue on a different discussion category (pets - it was removed presumably by the moderator) that my presentation was too emotive and that I should provide/read the district court documentation before making judgement. I cannot access this documentation. Speaking, without trying to be emotional, can I just say (1) that there seem to be numerous solutions to this issue rather than destroying the elderly gentleman's pet dog and (2) if Joe Bidens dog is allowed to be spared following two biting incidents at the Whitehouse, why should an old man in Roscommon not also be given due consideration - as you age, a dog in many instances really does become your best friend, your confidante, your raison d'etre. Does a nip to a passing stranger warrant the ultimate punishment for the dog and its owner?????? No, imo no, it is already devastating for him to have been put through this for the last two months, and if the order is processed, that man's life will be ruined.

nothing

The dog bit someone. Where the woman is from has nothing to do with it. Unless the woman kicked the dog or something, which doesn't seem to be the case, and a court has ruled on it, sounds like plenty of consideration has been given.

Jequ0n

Do you have an actual article that states what happened during the snapping incident or led up to it?

Your post consists of hearsay and some weird sources. Nobody will sign a petition on the back of that.

batman75

The problem now is that the woman in question is being vilified. The law as it stands gives the aggrieved the right to allow the dog to live. Because she is not giving a waiver she's getting clobbered on social media. It's the dog who bit her. From what I understand she didn't do anything to the dog. I feel for the 85 year old however you are required to have full control of your animal once in a public space. Otherwise these kind of things can happen.

Jim_Hodge

You are being emotive. The court decided and they rarely do so lightly. You don't know the circumstances but take on the cause?

The dog bit somebody.

The owner is an ex garda so should know the law with regard to controlling your dog.

Labaik

This is a pet hate of mine pardon the pun. No matter what the size or breed of a dog they should never be allowed roam gardens or the streets unsupervised or without a muzzle. You see it all the time in parks, people allowing there dog off leads to run at people or near young kids, the dog may be friendly but the fright it gives people to see a dog approach them isn't nice. Unfortunate for the dog that he has to pay the ultimate price for a foolish owners neglect.

hamburgham

A small dog bit someone. What is so terrible about that? It isn’t a terrible thing. People have lost absolutely all perspective.

Labaik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386773#Comment_119386773

But what happens if it bites a young child? Do you not realise the impact mentally been bit by a dog has on some people?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386773#Comment_119386773

It's something that was laid very bare during the covid pandemic. A small but very vocal minority are so risk averse they will do anything to avoid the merest hint of danger. They will wear a mask while walking on the beach, demand all schools be closed if it's forecast to be windy, call for a dog to be killed if it so much as looks at someone sideways, and my personal pet hate, lobby for beautiful old trees to be cut down because, God forbid, they might fall down and hurt somebody walking by.

These people are also invariably miserable.

I can't stand them.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386785#Comment_119386785

I was bitten myself as a child and it had no impact on me other than I always gave my neighbour’s dog a wide berth afterwards. I think a lot depends on the parents’ reaction. Mine didn’t even tell my neighbour. If the parent makes a big song and dance about it, then the child is more likely to be affected by it.

I think there has be be context. The size of the dog, the circumstances, the dog’s usual behaviour. A bite is not a mauling and shouldn’t mean a death sentence for the dog.

bb12

I think it's absolutely dreadful that they are trying to destroy the beloved pet of an old age pensioner. Crap happens in life and accidents occur. Everyone deserves a second chance.

xxxxxxl

Bitten by loads of dogs as a kid, Even had a nemesis that would jump over the wall and chase me for ages. I'm fine. If your mauled that's different.

bucketybuck

Just another example of how cowardly the people of this country really are.

"The dog bit somebody". Written as if there is nothing more to say on the matter, that a nip from a dog is clearly just the end of the world and thats that.

Hopefully the owner sees sense and the dog quietly "runs away in the night" to some unknown location before the limp dicks of Ireland get their cowardly way once again.

BagofWeed

Her third time being bitten.

harr

I think a lot more behind this that it seems , definitely seems to be some history between dog owner and lady in question.

The woman in question was been threatened physically on many social media platforms, her image had been posted as has her address. A lot of people have been hyped up into a mob by the likes of Ben Gilroy and his likes . He has met with the man.

I don’t know the particulars of the dog bite but the judge has given his judgment and the lady in question is adamant the dog had to go and definitely seems to be more to this story if she is so determined to go through with the courts orders ..

StrawbsM

The dog knows a baddun when she sees one. That woman sounds like a right witch and the owner of Kim had told her he would try everything to get to the bottom of this out of character behaviour and if a behaviourist said the dog had issues, he’d put her to sleep.

But the woman just wants to kill the dog. End of. Nasty cow.

PsychoPete

If that woman had an ounce of decency in her body she'd let that man live out the rest of his days with his dog

deaglan1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386880#Comment_119386880

What? Can you elaborate on this and what were the actions/outcomes in the previous cases?

Leg End Reject

What a cnut, no other word for her.

Ficheall

If only the dog had kicked the sh*t out of her instead, or tied her up in her home and robbed her, or pushed her onto a train track...

deaglan1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386691#Comment_119386691

(1) "The dog bit someone" Define a bite versus a nip.

(2) "Where the woman is from has nothing to do with it" - yes it does, it should absolutely be taken into consideration - she is the one pushing for destruction yet she is in no danger of ever encountering this dog again.

(3) "Unless the woman kicked the dog..." Well, as it stands, I am not aware of what occurred - but if a dog has no history of biting/nipping someone, yet does bite/nip this individual, that might suggest that there was an interaction of some sort prior to the bite/nip - or at least provides a basis for doubt on what really happened.

(4)"A court has ruled on it" A court operates within laws - laws can be very flawed - they only consist of words after all and are therefore subject to the limitations of language, i.e. they cannot possibly address all situations. Putting laws on a pedestal and accepting them as etched-in-stone calcified truths is naive.

(5)"Sounds like plenty of consideration has been given" - really, you base this apophthegmatic utterance on what exactly?

reniwren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386809#Comment_119386809

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/section/22/enacted/en/html. 

Has been law for a long time.

plodder

A few details don't sound right. The only way a dog can be ordered to be destroyed is by a judge at the district court. Did the owner not attend the hearing to argue for his dog? If nobody shows up, it seems a lot more likely a judge will just order it be destroyed as they might conclude this is not a responsible owner.

SpudsandGuinness

It's a hard one to call going on the circumstances but if it happens to do this a second time and damages a child well then it'll be too late .It's sad but sometimes maybe you have to be cruel to be kind. Sad either way and a tuff call.

deaglan1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387135#Comment_119387135

Thank you for that insight - it would seem to a non-legal person like me that there is plenty of leeway here: "order that the dog be kept under proper control OR be destroyed" So, why go for the nuclear option, considering that the owner has said that he would do everything to ensure that the dog would be under control?

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387097#Comment_119387097

That is so true. Really makes you realise how perverse things are in this country. For all we know, the dog in question has acted as a deterrent to such lowlife thinking of breaking in. Jacks are fabulous watchdogs.

reniwren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387174#Comment_119387174

Maybe they had been reported before to dog warden, maybe they don't turn up to court. Lots of back story not known here.

People just need to be aware of what is there so they don't have to go through the hassle of court etc

deaglan1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387167#Comment_119387167

Why would it do this a second time and specifically to a child - this is being generated in your mind? All that one has to do to retain a dog within the confines of their own home space is install an electric wire border...it works brilliantly without inflicting any pain on the dog. If we start going down the route of endless nightmare possibilities then why allow people to legally own specific large dog breeds in this country that have a reputation for temperaments that can be considered dangerous to children and adults alike? Why allow anyone drive a car - they result in accidents. What really happened here?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387166#Comment_119387166

It went to district court and an appeal to the circuit court. So two judges heard the full story from both sides. Most here are just taking one side as gospel. We haven't the full story or history.

riffmongous

I do have sympathy for the old man and hope the dog is saved considering the circumstances... But most of the time I absolutely hate people who let their dogs run around outside their properties on public roads like that, because there is always one fker that will try and nip you.

reniwren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387236#Comment_119387236

there is a restricted breed list

https://www.petraveller.com.au/blog/banned-breeds-in-ireland