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Ireland in a Federal Europe and the end of National Vetoes

  • 18-07-2022 7:30pm
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭ Perseverance The Second

    "BERLIN: The European Union can no longer afford to keep national vetoes when deciding on European Union foreign and security policy if it wants to maintain a leading role in global politics, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said.

    Moscow's war in Ukraine makes unity in Europe ever more urgent and increases pressure for an end to "selfish blockades" of European decisions by individual member states, Scholz said in an article published by the Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper on Sunday (Jul 17).

    "We simply can no longer afford national vetoes, for example in foreign policy, if we want to continue to be heard in a world of competing great powers," he added.

    Scholz has faced criticism from Kyiv and other western allies that Germany has not taken a leadership position on the Ukraine crisis, a charge Scholz has denied.

    The invasion, which Moscow calls a "special military operation", caused major shift in Germany's defence policy after decades of military restraint.

    The conflict has also pushed Berlin towards a more active foreign policy role globally, benefiting from its presidency of the Group of Seven industrialised nations this year.

    Scholz said the G7 and other countries could work together to find solutions for the world's food crisis, climate change and the pandemic if Germany takes responsibility for Europe and the world.

    He said Germany would make proposals for joint European migration policy, building European defence, technological sovereignty and democratic resilience in the coming months."

    How would Ireland react to end of national Veto's and a Federal Europe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭ PeaSea

    I see the EU doom mongers are quick off the mark.

    The larger the EU gets the more unwieldy it gets, so I guess that something like this needs done, but it's only an opener, who knows how it'll end up. Each country has 2 vetos per year, something like that ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭ donaghs

    If the EU decided to block ALL Russia oil gas and coal imports, I’d say Scholz would be quick to exercise the German veto.

    There’s loads of articles and discussions about the lack of European demos , hence there not being possible a Europe-wide democracy. Here’s one found quickly.

    I don’t see a way around this in the next few decades.

    Macron has always been pushing for a Euro military - certainly makes sense from a financial and organisational point of view, but ultimately what is that military for?

    Looking at how France led the charge to destroy Libya in 2011, and has continued to use their military to police the African Francophonie, you can see where this could lead…

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Ireland would react the same way Ireland always reacts: blind, unquestioning obedience to the higher authority.

    Ireland resisted significant pressure from almost every other EU member state, and every single large one, to increase their corporation tax rates and only agreed to it when a global agreement was put in place.

    Ireland is far less subservient to the whims of European powers than it ever has been in its history.

    Anyway, the EU already has qualified majority voting for several matters. For anything that requires unanimity, it would require unanimity to remove the veto.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy

    Scholz wants to bring the Eastern Europeans in to line, they have been pushing their own approach too much in relation to Ukraine etc and that has causes problems and Scholz has been told remedy it.

  • Macron wants an EU military because he wants all european countries to be flying Dassaults and not F-35s. It has **** all to do with efficiencies, it is about selling French hardware.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 33,415 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    So, we're back to fearmongering over Europe again. How banal.

    It's not going to happen, despite what the Irexit brigade would have you believe. No national leader is going to surrender their veto, never mind 27 at the same time.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,928 ✭✭✭ conorhal

    QUIET SCHLOZ!!! You're saying the quiet part out loud again and making the sheep nervous! I know they say you should never waste a good crisis to consolidate power, but you need to stick to the plan of 'slicing the salami' and eroding national soverignty little by little so that the fools don't even notice that they've sleep walked into a federal state.

  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ I Blame Sheeple

    Soon, we'll no longer be neutral on paper too. The EU Army is going to be magnificent.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    I suspect many of these "fools" have a better idea of the competencies and powers of the EU then those crying about this.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,544 ✭✭✭✭ _Kaiser_

    Coveney has said several times that he's open to the idea of looking at our stance on neutrality. Just what you want to hear from your Minister of Foreign Affairs and Defence.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,544 ✭✭✭✭ _Kaiser_

    Looks to me that there's a fairly significant negative sentiment that has eaten into the Pro-support anytime there's been challenges. It's easy to be positive in the good times.

    The neutrals are a big problem for the EU too. A consistent 35-40% don't seem to give a toss either way, and that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the "project" either.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Yes. people get negative when things are going poorly. Things were unprecedentedly bad and negative views never broke 30% and it has not been "building since" as it has dropped back to long term average levels.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr

    How did the veto work out with that bailout we paid for? 😂 Vetoes not much use when Berlin and Paris have the ECB put a gun to your head

    Scholz and Merkel are examples of why bleeding execitive power away from nationally elected governments to supranational entities is so dangerous, its too easy for a few key players to be compromised or go rogue. The EU is determined to head in one direction: a fully federal Europe without the checks and balances on power of the American system, imagine someone like Sholz dancing to Moscows tune in that scenario

    We would probably have had more self government under Home Rule than we have now.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭ 85603

    Using Russia as the boogieman just shows up that its all bullsht.

    That doesn't work anymore, everyone has seen they're a complete mess.

    Russia and its many accidental fires is coming to get us.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Committing to the OECD move on corporate tax rates had nothing to do with the EU. They have been trying for decades unsuccessfully.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    “The veto” had nothing whatsoever to do with our inability to access international bond markets.

    Again those anti eu have no clue what it is.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 33,415 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    Reminds me of the Brexiters who voted Leave because there are too many Indians.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭ Perseverance The Second

    Additional steps towards An EU Common Defence policy

    Brussels to finance joint EU weapons procurement for the first time under Commission plan aimed at directing surge in new arms spending at joined-up, collaborative weapons deals

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr

    Who said it was, I was bursting the bubble of your man who said no Irish government would cave on a veto,anyway I see he's ranting about Brexiteers again now, even Kier Starmer has moved on at this stage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ AllForIt

    This is one of the most brief rational articulate summarizations of the EU state of affairs as I've ever read on this site.

    I was just listening to an obituary commentary on Boris Johnson today, and in it it was said that Johnson did not have a problem with economic alignment with Europe, it was the political alignment that he had the problem with. For all the reams of chatter about Brexit over the last few years, the whole problem with the EU is simply down to political alignment. It's not in the slightest bit complicated what the problem with the EU is, it couldn't be more simple.

    And what kind of political alignment?... a left wing political alignment, which would chock out dissent. That can only end in tears, because it's essential not based on democracy. And if one would argue that is not the case then do you think there could ever be a right leaning EU, if the EU is democratic? Not a hope. That is not to say I'm arguing for a right wing EU, just that I'm saying if it's not possible then it's not democratic.

    When citizens of Europe in the EU say they feel they are 'European' what they really mean is they are left wing Europeans in solidarity with other left wing European countries. If Germany went Nazi again, they'd hardly say they are still European at heart. No they are only European when they feel their political views are in charge and would drop the idea they are European if they weren't getting their way.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ xxxxxxl

    I imagine the conversation with the USA. Right lads the Gig is up you put up the rate or we pull out. simple as simple. Resist lol. Rate seems to Favour the USA now.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    How is it relevant? The Irish government were under severe and sustained pressure on the corporate tax front and never caved or even looked likely to.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,882 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    "The USA" is not investing here, US companies are.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭ brickster69

    All roads lead to Rome.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,737 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327

    I'd be in favor of an EU wide military alliance, it just makes sense. You can't be neutral when the western civilized world is on one side and Putin, China and the middle east is on the other. It took the second civil war of 1812 to change the US from a collection of states to a union, I hope we don't need a war to change.