BusConnects Cork

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408944#Comment_119408944

You can still drive on the Douglas Road, you just can't drive the length of it due to the bus gates (Well Road, Bellair and Ballinlough Road). You can still access it by car from Belvedere Lawn, Tramore Lawn, Rathmore Lawn/Rhodaville Estate, Rosebank, Bellair, Eglantine Park and the Cross Douglas Road. By foot/bike, you can also access it from Clermont Avenue and Woodview.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409043#Comment_119409043

I don't think that will be the case for Donnybrook. Otherwise, it would be the same right now for Maryborough Hill with the 220. It is sometimes in the morning I think but otherwise it's not. The 220 replacement (3) will split between 3A and 3B, plus a few other going from Carrigaline to the city centre, so I don't see capacity for Donnybrook being an issue.

South Douglas Road does have a bus route, No 7 (Kent - Mount Oval), 20 minute frequency. The No 6 is every 15 minutes (Grange - UCC) stops on South Douglas Road too, it just doesn't travel down it. Maybe a 2/3 minute walk from the school

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409096#Comment_119409096

I don't think that's particular to Cork, at all, but it is what will probably happen.

Dangel4x4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119400260#Comment_119400260

Yep, "bus gates" at Bellair traffic lights to stop cars going towards town...all on-street parking to be removed on this stretch also (with 15-20? parking spaces at St Finbarr's entrance to compensate). Outside of peak hours, all buses that pass this way are empty (215, 207, 220, 216 etc) so the proposals are complete overkill and deserve to be killed off.

If this does somehow go ahead, parking will need to be removed on Wallace's Avenue too as this will be the new rat-run into town. Of course the NTA only inform residents of what's happening on their 200m of road so it's hard to visualise the scale of the stupidity on a city-wide basis...

The worst thing however, in my view, is the amount of trees they plan to cut down...on the Douglas Rd and Boreenmana Rd...to facilitate road widening 😡😡😡

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408944#Comment_119408944

To be fair the Regina Mundi crowd are a pain in the h*le and cause traffic chaos on the Douglas Road every morning and afternoon...blocking cycle lanes, the bus stop, the petrol station forecourt, etc. Yes, their little angels should be getting the bus where possible (but I guess the problem here is that so many students aren't from the local area and rely on being driven to school...but there's a separate thread).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394036#Comment_119394036

Citation please?

I haven't read anything about houses being demolished or people being barred from owning cars. However the question of continued car ownership is an interesting one: with onstreet parking being removed for High Street and the Douglas Road, one has to question where car owners will continue to park their cars (as the proposed number of spaces at the front of St Finbarr's is clearly inadequate for the number of residents in the area)?

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489122#Comment_119489122

https://twitter.com/bus_conn_stinks/status/1549318964328759296?t=R3Zqaz4u1WZ5D2v5gkX64w&s=19

Where someone stores their private property is entirely a question for the car owner to resolve and should not entail handing over the public realm to private storage.

Dangel4x4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491431#Comment_119491431

lol, your source is one tweet from a crank account with 35 followers? Ironically you've probably trebled their audience by posting that tweet.

Is that all you have to support your claim, seriously? That's not "a scandalous amount of disinformation". Less of your hysteria please.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497285#Comment_119497285

Ah the classic "but not that". Why don't you do us a favour and look it up yourself. 👍 Councillors spreading misinfo and negativity also. I'm not going to spoon feed you 🙄

Dangel4x4

lol at you claiming I made some kind of logical fallacy in response to your hyperbole...

It's not my responsibility to "do us a favour and look it up" myself in order to verify your claim. Specially when the claim has no grounding in reality.

You make a claim..be prepared to back it up. That's not spoonfeeding.

notAMember

Agree the amount of trees coming down is disappointing. They did the same in douglas park and on skehard road. The new trees are never mature ones.

I find the flow quite hard to visualise , it’s a pity there isn’t a simulator version of the traffic where you could load it with school or match traffic.

gooseman12

I'm beginning to think, actually i'm quite confident at this stage, that BusConnects is going to fall at the first hurdle.

We have councilors voicing fierce opposition to every single aspect of it and demanding the entire plan be discarded, residents crying over the plan (not my words, see here https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40960250.html), road conservation status' changes in the hope of protecting the fabric of the city (https://twitter.com/CllrDesCahil/status/1546808046327840770?cxt=HHwWhICykaHurvcqAAAA). Parking in St. Lukes also seems to be causing some major issues, and i'd imagine the list is far far longer than only the ones I am aware of.

The greenfields/coolroe meadows scheme, while not part of the bus connects plan, i think shows a microcosm of what awaits for the bus connects plans, very vocal local objections, backed up by councilors seemingly results in the plan being entirely discarded in favour of the status quo. While the plans may not have been the best, i really feel the status quo is not the best outcome for anyone here.

I see bus connects headed the same direction. At most it ends up being a completely watered down version of the plan with very little changes.

While this is cork focused, it is probably not just a cork thing, I can imagine the dublin plans are headed in a similar direction.

thomil

Oh, this project is dead, no doubt about it! Unless the government somehow gets both the authority and backbone to go all Tienanmen Square on the NIMBYs and Cork Sh!tty Council, which is honestly still better than they deserve, this will never get anywhere.

All those who are b*tching about why Cork isn't what it used to be, just look at what's going on with BusConnects and you'll see that the Leesiders are more than happy to kill their own city in favour of chasing some mystic rose-tinted past that never existed in the first place!

namloc1980

Any chance of a Cork Luas will be stopped in it's tracks by these same Councillors and NIMBYs. Meanwhile our roads are creaking under car traffic but it seems Cork people are happy enough with that.

BagofWeed

More of the same. BC is dead in the water and not a penny more should be wasted on transportation in Cork. Let them enjoy their dreadfully slow buses while they crawl through the heavy congestion and the web of badly timed traffic lights, a complete mess but its what the people want, so be it.

BusConnects and NTA controversial plans for Cork: unique opportunity or highways to Hell? (irishexaminer.com)

BagofWeed

More of the same. A city of anti-progress.

Virgin Media News on Twitter: "#WATCH A €600 million Bus Connects project planned for parts of Cork is being met with opposition Southern Correspondent @PaulByrne_1 reports from Ballincollig ⤵️ #VMNews | #busconnects | #Ballincollig https://t.co/zSQGWNzmv2" / Twitter

notAMember

I think it's a shame the concerns aren't being addressed publicly, through communication channels they have.

For people losing their property - tell people up front what they will be paid for their land, and make sure it's based on some logic, and reasonably generous.

For people losing parking (and I know some of these are elderly people in wheelchairs losing accessible parking spaces), pay them, or facilitate them relocating to a suitable house.

For people who are concerned about our mature trees being pulled down, integrate the existing trees into the design.

It shouldn't be a take it or leave it conversation. Don't know why people have to be so black and white about it.

That's what these consultations are for, to take input and assess whether an adjustment makes sense or not.

DylanQuestion

I think people are forgetting what this process is for, though. All these issues people have with it, that's what they're looking for. They designed these routes based on past experiences and Google Maps. For example, they're not aware of the historical significance of the Douglas Road's wall or the trees. They also don't know of the importance of certain parking spots, or how certain roads don't work the way they think they do due to XYZ. This process is to gather all of that local knowledge, to combine it with their plans. For instance, none of these schemes are in planning. These aren't concrete plans in anyway. So I am completely fine with people having issues with these plans, such as a a bridge going through the Mangala or them not noticing that Maryborough Hill was already widened in 2019 and doesn't need to be widened again or more. What I do have an issue with is people thinking this is being railroaded into their lives and the detriment of everyone. I'm sure the next round of consultation will see large scale changes, especiallt with the Mangala Bridge being removed. Even after then, they will need to go for planning permission, which will be another opportunity for people to raise issues. It's just for some reason people in Ireland catasrophise everything. The whole aim of this project is to improve public transport, traffic and lives, not to ruin them. They want our knowledge

However, as notAMember said, more communication is needed, such as the above I just mentioned. It's hard though when councillors with vested interests try everything to have this project fail before it even starts

the beer revolu

I see a problem where a lot of the objectors, despite what they say, do not actually want more efficient and sustainable transport if it impacts on their car use in any way whatsoever. I believe that most of the loudest voices of objection come from people who have no desire or expectation to ever step foot on a bus.

These people seem to fail to realise that unless there is a huge shift in how people travel, traffic is just going to get worse and worse and worse. No amount of road building or improvement is going to change that.

DylanQuestion

I have noticed just in the last few weeks that traffic is horrifically bad too, I'm not sure what the reason is or I'm just now noticing it. However, the Douglas Road (especially at the Well Road end) always feels bumper to bumper. I've also saw people highlight that this traffic won't be solved by electric cars

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708765#Comment_119708765

It's possible - if not probable- (based on U.S. studies) that electric cars will actually make the problem worse. Because owners believe that 1) the running costs are effectively nil (lower running costs and those charging costs are essentially "lost" in a bimonthly electricity bill) and 2) there is no environmental or societal impact from an EV, owners are inclined to use them more often compared to those with ICE cars.

namloc1980

Traffic won't be solved by EVs and it won't be solved by Dunkettle interchange being finished. A lot of people out there think that Dunkettle is some sort of panacea for Cork traffic once it's completed.

People who have no intention of ever setting foot on a bus are dictating the debate over BusConnects and active transport in the city.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708765#Comment_119708765

The reason is really very obvious and simple. There are too many cars on our roads at the same time.

Car ownership per 1000 people has jumped from 228 in 1990 to 442 in 2019! There was no shortage of traffic in 1990 yet we've almost doubled the amount of cars on our roads in that 29 years (probably by more than that as the population has also increased). What did we expect to happen?

Have no doubt, that without intervention, ownership will continue to increase and so will traffic. People see measures as "anti car" or as a "war on cars", but the reality is that it just cannot continue on as it it - it won't work for anyone - certainly not for car owners (I am one). And, no, EVs won't help.

What might help would be a massive shift towards shared car systems but people are so wedded to their cars that there is reluctance to this.

Oh, I've just remembered the solution that a poster on this forum came up with a few years ago - they suggested that if the cost of car ownership and use was substantially reduced, people would be encouraged to use them less🤣😂😅😁. That was a good one. Anyone want to claim ownership of that bright idea??

BagofWeed

Taoiseach: Part of Cork's €600m BusConnects plan has left elderly in tears (irishexaminer.com) Ye'll never have nought in the swampy bog. Double height traffic lights and traffic gridlock is the preferred way for Cork. My old village in NL has better transportation than Cork.

DylanQuestion

This is a good way to figure out who to not give a vote to in the local or national elections, namely not one of the Fianna Fáil councillors or TD

kub

I for one am glad we live in a democracy, seems strange on this thread to have a different view on this subject and the attitude of those promoting it.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718445#Comment_119718445

What's democratic about councillors ignoring large swathes of the public and backing property owning NIMBYs only? Strange variety of "democracy".

kub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119719084#Comment_119719084

While listening to other large swathes of the public is it ?

Wake up, as I said I am glad I live in a democracy

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119719115#Comment_119719115

That makes no sense.

kub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119719424#Comment_119719424

I would not expect it to, obviously other peoples differing views on this is completely alien.

igCorcaigh

I'm a little bit torn by this one tbh. My dad is a city councillor (WP, NE ward), and has been asked to put his position forward by residents of St. Luke's cross.

I can understand why residents are in uproar at having their car parking space removed, as it obviously will impact on their lives in a big way.

I can also see the greater good of the plan (if it works!).

I don't know how to advise my dad in which way to go. He is big into public transport and sustainability issues. I'm trying to find a third way... Any advice?

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718445#Comment_119718445

People have every right to object to this, and we have every right to disagree with their objections and vote accordingly

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119719438#Comment_119719438

One thing for sure is if it's watered down it won't work for anyone, parkers, bus, or bicycle users.