BMW introduce monthly subscription for heated seats.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331034#Comment_119331034

out of curiosity what hardware comes with a subscription for features?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330728#Comment_119330728

Its been happening with cars for years already. The same engine is fitted to different models but horsepower is lowered unless you pay extra.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331034#Comment_119331034

Can you give examples of some hardware features that are disabled, I'm genuinely curious, are you talking about at a level of processors e.g. something overclockable version of same processor costs more and can be enabled by software.

I know the subscription service is big business companies love a regular guaranteed revenue stream that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight against it.

The hob example may be a bit extreme but 10 years ago if you raised the idea of subscription heated seats you have been laughed at, where as now people are willing to accept it, who know what features you might have to pay extra down the line if it is allowed to happen.

I don't hear many complain about new car prices tbh, most I know would just weigh up new vs second hand and purchase based on what they can spend.

Hurrache

Dunno, I've been in IT for longer than you and nothing springs to my mind in which we've had hardware but unable to use it all unless we pay a subscription. Certain dongles are the best I can come up with and they haven't been around in decades.

Your assumption that heated seats won't be included in the base price is wrong. You believe that when you buy a fully loaded car you'll basically pay for a base model and only pay for what you want then? Nope, the cost of the car will include the cost of all hardware that comes with it.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331122#Comment_119331122

I would have thought in most cases like that there is a hardware difference somewhere, even if it is same engine block the valves are different or something, but don't know enough to be honest.

But anyway that is not the same, what is purchase is what you purchase. Its not like if you don't keep up payments they manufacturer can downgrade your car to lower hp.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330252#Comment_119330252

This is the key issue.

A subscription implying guarantee on a car that is very often bought outright, is messy territory for both parties.

hunter2000

As the government are currently riding is I’m not sure when will bmw get to rod us.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331167#Comment_119331167

Your right thats the case for some engines but nowadays there are loads of engines that are literally identical with different horsepower outputs depending on the make, model, or trim level

User1998

In my opinion if they start charging people to use heated seats on cars that usually would have them as standard then that is a bit scabby. But on cars where they are an option I really don’t see the issue. As above I’d say its mostly for production line reasons

griffin100

I had a brand new BMW 2 series over last Christmas as a replacement when mine was in getting repaired. When I tried to use the HBA (automatic high beams) a QR code appeared on the dash and I could buy this ‘extra’ via the code. More than scabby when you consider the price of a new 2 series and the fact this is only a software issue rathe than part of the physical build of the car.

McGrath5

Pity - I can't imagine any BMW owner will pay the subscription for the indicators.

Beta Ray Bill

It's out and out greed.

Like that would totally put me off buying a BMW

Do manufactures no realize that most of use want a square box that's safe, cheap and environmentally friendly. I don't need something with a load of crap in it.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331167#Comment_119331167

Good example is current Octavia, 2.0 TDI 150 model is €2000 more than the 2.0 TDI 115 engine. The only difference is the software, and they are the same emissions and VRT rate.

Cookie_Monster

This is coming across the board. VW have already have it in their plans. Single models builds for WLTP purposes and you can either buy the base spec and subscribe to various features on demand or pay for a top spec and everything is unlocked permanently.

Even drivetrain will be locked behind subscription, vehicle 4wd but 2wd as standard and 4wd needs sub to unlock.

D3V!L

KTM motorcycles have been doing this for years ! They'll sell a top of the range bike with all the hardware on it and then charge you to use it.

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334233#Comment_119334233

You can't waltz into a Skoda dealer and get them to "unlock" the extra 35hp for a fee though, you would have to get the car remapped elsewhere instead. I get the point though, but somehow it feels different and would not bother most people when buying a car as the majority of the buying public would not realise the engine and setup is the same between both models.

I know the subscription model has been around for years for phones and IT services (I have worked in IT for 25 years), but it just feels wrong to apply it to cars at this late stage in the game. It all just smacks of "runaway Capitalism" now and trying to squeeze every last cent out of the customer to then hand over to shareholders (and yes, I am aware that R&D, Advertising and other business expenses cost money). In the last 10 years, car prices have increased massively and looking at even the past year, the increases have been huge so asking people to pay a monthly fee for certain features still does not sit right with me.

Either way, this is going to happen as I think the target market for these subscriptions are already well used to paying for such services (a slightly disguised way of saying, I'm too old to fall for this 🙂). I will avoid paying for any extra services on my car as I figure paying €40k (and beyond) for a vehicle should get you the features you need. At least there is still a mechanism to pay for something in perpetuity... now, whether that transfers to the next owner of the vehicle; well, that is another question.

colm_mcm

I was just replying to a comment that questioned mechanical differences between engine variants.

In the case of Skoda, the 115ps engine is filling a gap made by the 1.6 TDI which has been pensioned off. I would guess that the actual production cost of a 1.6 and 2.0 TDI is minimal but it was easier to justify the extra few grand when you were getting something physically different. So is the 115ps subsidised or the 150ps penalised? I wonder 😆

Montage of Feck

If this is the future of cars I'd rather cycle! Leave the subscription services to the IT fanboys.

Clareman

I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying for clearly software services, stuff like map updates, extra software functionality or other stuff but in this case this is hardware, it's your seat (which you paid for) being heated from a fuel source (which you paid for). Looking at my last car, front heated seats were standard, I did pay extra for adaptive headlights (€200),if i had to pay even €1 a month for that feature I wouldn't but I didn't even give it a second thought when I was buying the car

creedp

So let me just fully understand what's going on here. What's being suggested that instead of buying a base model and paying for desired options, people will pay for fully loaded cars but won't be able to use many of the options already installed but simply drag them around wasting energy?

Might be a good model for used car buyers if they could subsequently activate options that the 'tight arsed' new car buyer couldn't be bothered with. Would make buying a used car less complicated as nowadays its almost impossible to be certain what model you're buying and what optional extras are included.

I'm summary the worlds gone mad!

Buddy Bubs

This is not much of a story to be worked up about to be honest, at least not when buying new, heated seats in the article linked in OP are 18 dollars per month or 415 dollars forever.

I'm sure heated seats when they are an option to tick yes or no, costs at least 415 to add to the spec.

Most people finance their cars so every yes ticked just adds prices to monthly anyway.

It's a strange one for used car buyers in the future though.

Clareman

The more I think of it the more it makes sense, if you don't get the option when you buy the car you can get it retofitted which I'm sure would be more expensive that when being purchased, or you can pay to turn it on afterwards, good idea in a strange way. No doubt when people get their new car they get a free trial for all the extras and choose to turn them back on when their trial is up.

Capt'n Midnight

Or Streetwize 12V Heated Car Seat Cushion €31.00 in Argos and you can take them out in summer.

Some lovely comments here - https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/07/12/bmw_locks_korean_car_owners/

What happens if the wires to the heated seats are cut and connected directly to a nice high current wire in the loom with a toggle switch and relay?

...

Sounds like a blatant piracy protection circumvention, and a bajillion dollar fine and/or imprisonment.

I'm being 90% facetious.

Well, in the current climate (and I'm talking weather now), I reckon I'll pass on heated seats from April to October, and only pay during the cold months. Is that an option?

...

if you don't pay in summer they turn them ON

the indicators on subscription too?

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338383#Comment_119338383

The point is your paying for all this hardware in your car that you may not be using. You're not getting a cheaper model like now if you don't spec these things. Essentially you'll be paying twice, first when you buy the car with them, second to use them.

The only beneficiaries are BMW.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338743#Comment_119338743

It’s one thing developing something like CarPlay and having the capabilities built in but not activated, customer activates it, pays for a licence some of which goes to Apple.

Its another thing paying €60k for a car, they’ve fitted the hardware in the car for seat heating already!the materials have been paid for and it’s physically there. The feature is so cheap to produce that they’ve included it in the basic seat. Then they want a second kick of the cat in the form of a subscription.

This is not about making options more accessible or cars more adaptable. It’s about extracting more money out of the customer.

Miscreant

I can see a large "cottage" industry growing up to enable these features in people's cars by hacking the onboard software/hardware modules. Just like having your car remapped for more power.

Clareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340107#Comment_119340107

I guess it goes back to what people value, in my case I paid €240 for a feature and I have it for the life of the car, some people may prefer to pay as they need it. Almost everything is moving to a subscription model now and the motor industy is paying catchup, as you point out people accept paying for some services like Apple, not too long ago people would have complained about that.

Hurrache

Don't think many would have complained about paying for services like Apple. But either way they're not comparable.

You don't pay for additional hardware that's required for streaming services when you buy a phone, tv, laptop etc with the option to never have to use that in built hardware. If you chose to, you can then subscribe to that service. There's nothing off the wall about that concept.

What would be off the wall is that if you were to buy a phone and that phone became more expensive because it's requires hardware in order to cater for a service that you may never want to use.

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340107#Comment_119340107

That to me is the only way of looking at this. Paying money for stuff you don't need, want or use and should you want it, paying again, but on a monthly basis. So you don't even buy it twice, but keep buying it for all eternity.

From a business standpoint it makes perfect sense, because the general business model is "how much money can we screw out of this bastard" and the answer is always "as much as anyhow possible". And getting people to pay for stuff they don't need, want or use is the zenith of good business sense. The cherry on top is creating dependency to the manufacturer, be that emotinal or actual.

The days of selling you a product you want with the specs you specified that you own forever and get to do with as you wish, are gone. Why would they? Selling "Product" for €1X is all good and well. But selling "Product" for €2X + Y + Y + Y+ Y+ Y + Y..... is fantastic. Just look at buying films on Amazon. You own the right to watch a certain movie. You paid almost as much (or the same) as for the physical copy. But should Amazon decide to yank that movie from their platform, guess what, it's a case of "screw you, MOFO".

Yes, there will be other manufacturers who will buck the trend and still sell you a product with certain features that you will own in perpetuity. And guess what? 99% of consumers won't give a sh*t about that. They will buy the product where they get screwed twice, because that's the fancy, shiney one. Just look how much people spend on Apple and Tesla products, because they're fancy, shiney and everyone else has one. Because then you'd loose bragging rights and that is unacceptable. Why did the sustainable smartphone fail miserably? Because it's not shiney and has no bragging rights. Very few people have the ability to recognise a good, sustainable product for a decent price, or they don't care because no-one owns it.

Offering people a good product for a reasonable price is a guaranteed step to failure. You need to offer people overpriced, crappy bling, tie them to the product, offer only the flimsiest excuse of service and update often. Quality is secondary, service is irrelevant but perception and brand recognition is everything. Behind growing your market share, of course. In fact the very product is irrelevant. If you sell tires, frozen pizza, phones, cars or soft drinks is entirely irrelevant for the business nerds, to them it is all An Brand that needs to make as much money as possible for as little layout as possible.

And now watch as susbcription models will become monstrously successfull as people will fall over each other to pay vastly inflated prices for tat they don't own. I mean, just look at people in 2006 paying millions and millions for avergae houses in Dublin, because rising prices meant next year they would be up on the deal. It was idiotic, but people practically shat themselves with excitmenet to vastly overpay for houses that were worth a fraction afterwards.

Clareman

A decent article on this topic is on the beeb

BBC News - BMW introduces new heated seat subscription in UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-6214220 8