BMW introduce monthly subscription for heated seats.

Pique

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

Clareman

Just had a look at my BMW section, for €79 per year I can get Connected Booster, which appears to be just real time traffic updates for my car, for €109 per annum I can get Concierge Services which are

"Using Concierge Services, you can press a button to make a connection to the BMW Call Centre which will provide you with a “personal assistant” while on the move – 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. Whether you are looking for a specific restaurant, wanting to book a hotel room or are trying to find the nearest on-duty pharmacist, your “personal assistant” is there at your service."

I'll stick to Google thanks lads 😁

Damien360

Looks like it will become the new normal. At what point does the industry manage to kill the golden goose ? When will there be a backlash?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/car-buyers-could-end-up-paying-hundreds-more-in-subscriptions-1.4870474

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327411#Comment_119327411

There should be backlash already TBH. People pay enough money for a car as it is, and the prices are only going one way. To add subscription services on top of it sounds like lunacy but it could be a way for manufacturers to standardise on 1 build for models and then just turn on and off certain features that were not paid for in the original configuration. At least they give you the option to buy "in perpetuity" for a price and not have a monthly/yearly subscription.

I think it is a measure that should be heavily resisted anyway. If cars were a new "invention" then I could understand the measure (similar to paying a subscription for services on your phone or the like), but they have been around longer than most people have been alive at this stage and charging a subscription for features that have been standard on some models for years is a bit rich.

From now on, choosing the right spec of car at the beginning will be all the more important unless you want to be paying extra down the line.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327502#Comment_119327502

Subscription services for something like a concierge service or traffic updates I can understand but a subscription service to keep my arse warm in the winter is just a step too far.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327502#Comment_119327502

But "in perpetuality" linked to the owner or linked to the vehicle? Because that's some loss on resale value if you had all of the bells & whistles paid-for, but were not transferable at point of sale!!

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327340#Comment_119327340

GM have had that for decades with OnStar.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327516#Comment_119327516

does anyone think of the rest of us plebs having to sit on plain old seats

wonski

All BMW's will be top spec in ads.

The sellers will easily forget to mention 2450 euro monthly charge for all :)

Greedy tactic. Pathetic, reminds me of some game companies.

If the for life charge doesn't transfer to the new owner they can stick those BMW Select cars up their...ars...

Vicxas

Wont be long until people are just modifying the software in their cars to work around this. Ridiculous

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327829#Comment_119327829

All OEMs have big targets for "software revenue" with 70% margins, this is the way the industry is going

wonski

We are so used to subscriptions plans these days that the next generation of buyers will probably see nothing wrong with it.

Even sky still charges extra for HD channels (which is standard across the rest of Europe) and their customers pay it so maybe that's the way the world is going to be...

Not the place I want to be in, but what can you do? They dictate the rules and prices anyway.

They could have just left it as it was and let the customer spec the car initially. It just shows that those specs don't cost as much as they want you to think if they are ready to install them on all cars. Their business is to make money so that's fine as long as they stop pretending it is about saving planet or any other bullshit.

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327589#Comment_119327589

You get what you pay for :)

Hurrache

VW group, and I'm sure others, have been rolling out cars for years with Android Auto and Car Play in the head units but not always available to the owner. You have to pay for an unlock code to activate it but at least that then stays with the car from then on.

But paying a subscription to use hardware like heated seats already fitted is some money grab. It's not like you're paying for a 3rd party licence, the cost of the equipment has already been paid for, unless they try to imply you're getting a discount for every piece of equipment you don't want to use.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327523#Comment_119327523

Tesla is dong well with this model, but IMO they are still in early adaptor mode so people are willing to put with a lot of issues from Tesla to say they have a Tesla.

Car manufactures know they are fecked in the next 10-20 years when we get L5 cars as very few people will own a car then. So they are trying to squeeze more money from their current customers to cover the fact that selling cars to consumers isn't a viable long term business plan.

The simple solution to stop this is not to buy from manufactures who do it, but unfortunately as Tesla is showing people will willing pay for vapourware (FSD for $12k!) so it's going to spread.

...

Ubbquittious

Phuq BMW. What an absolute pack of cnuts

Larbre34

I've driven the iX and i4, the UX is annoying, sterile and not as luxurious as before, for a BMW.

If it were me, I'd buy a 330e or an X5 45e and keep it for donkeys years.

Also, why would anyone brag about owning a Tesla? It shows the worst judgement of quality since Ratner's jewellers.

Sarn

I can see it now…”Collision imminent, would you like to subscribe for additional air bag activation?”

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119328566#Comment_119328566

Excuse my ignorance but what is L5?

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119328051#Comment_119328051

Appears that soon BMW owners won't get what they pay for

mikeecho

Just like updated sat nav maps can be downloaded, and an FSC either created or bought online relatively cheaply, I'm sure the same will happen with unlocking your heated seats.

As soon as the car is out of warranty, I can see people jail breaking their BMW.

New Volvo's are limited to 180km/h , but I've seen videos of them being unlocked to 250km/h

Shank Williams

Fully automated driving- no human attention required

the guy has been reading too many press releases - Nowhere near it- don’t believe the industry spoofing

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119329468#Comment_119329468

L5 is fully autonomous vehicles.

https://www.aptiv.com/en/insights/article/what-are-the-levels-of-automated-driving

cruizer101

This is such bullshit.

The problem is it will creep in to more and more features if nothing is done about it.

This is the kind of thing EU needs to step up and say no. If a piece of equipment is in a car then the owner should has full access to use it. They can say it is on an environmental basis, its very wasteful to install equipment just for the sake of it in case the owner may want to subscribe.

Homer

Stuff sort of already exists with Apple car play in modern BMWs. I bought a G30 5 series a couple of years old and was told I would have to pay BmW €299 to get it re activated?

got an independent coder to sort of for €99 but still pi**ed me off as I wasn’t aware they de activate it after a set period.

Montage of Feck

Thanks a lot elon musk!

StrawbsM

It’s all a bit mental, isn’t it?

What happens if there’s a fault with the heated seats? Does the monthly subscription cover repairs?

bazz26

I don't really know what some people are getting so upset about. This type of business model has been used in other industries for ages. The car industry is only catching up now and probably induced by the likes of WLTP testing and the chip shortage as well as improvements in design. They are streamlining their products as well as their manufacturing tooling on assembly lines, not to mention speeding up production times by not having to deviate a vehicle into a different area of the assembly line just to have a certain feature fitted. That just over complicates the manufacturing process especially when you have so many markets with different standard features.

Standardising a build and then enabling/disabling certain features using software, for certain markets or customers makes perfect scense from their point of view. This allows the first owner of the car to choose or not choose what they want while also benefits future owners of that car if they want a feature enabled that previously they would have been at the mercy of what the first owner ordered. For example take heated seats, first owner may not have been bothered with them but the next owner might want them. Having a subscription service also allows you to unsubscribe during the warmer months when heated seats are not required.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330548#Comment_119330548

Subscription models are common for software but I can't think of other industries where a hardware feature is included but needs to be unlocked with a subscription. Love to hear where else this is common.

Whats next a 4 burner induction hob but only 2 burners enabled unless you subscribe. Washing machine with limited cycles. Headphones with subscription noise cancelling.

They have gone to the expense of installing the feature just let people use it, electric windows used to be a optional extra nowadays it basically standard why not do the same for heated seats. I would much rather the cost just be included in the base price.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330728#Comment_119330728

The IT industry I've worked in for the last 25 years. Plenty of hardware not just software, features fitted but disabled unless you pony up and pay for them. The subscription service is big business and it's only natural that car industry is looking at this going forward now that there will be less moving parts to make money from with electrification taking hold.

And your example of a 4 burner induction hob is bit of a silly over dramatic and extreme example of something that won't happen in reality but I get it, you don't like the idea. And you say you prefer to include the cost of such features in the base price but people whing about the cost of new cars too. Everyone wants their bread buttered on both sides, they want cheaper new cars but want more standard features built into the base price. Howerver I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm simply stating that it's nothing new and is be here to stay.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331034#Comment_119331034

out of curiosity what hardware comes with a subscription for features?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330728#Comment_119330728

Its been happening with cars for years already. The same engine is fitted to different models but horsepower is lowered unless you pay extra.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331034#Comment_119331034

Can you give examples of some hardware features that are disabled, I'm genuinely curious, are you talking about at a level of processors e.g. something overclockable version of same processor costs more and can be enabled by software.

I know the subscription service is big business companies love a regular guaranteed revenue stream that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight against it.

The hob example may be a bit extreme but 10 years ago if you raised the idea of subscription heated seats you have been laughed at, where as now people are willing to accept it, who know what features you might have to pay extra down the line if it is allowed to happen.

I don't hear many complain about new car prices tbh, most I know would just weigh up new vs second hand and purchase based on what they can spend.

Hurrache

Dunno, I've been in IT for longer than you and nothing springs to my mind in which we've had hardware but unable to use it all unless we pay a subscription. Certain dongles are the best I can come up with and they haven't been around in decades.

Your assumption that heated seats won't be included in the base price is wrong. You believe that when you buy a fully loaded car you'll basically pay for a base model and only pay for what you want then? Nope, the cost of the car will include the cost of all hardware that comes with it.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331122#Comment_119331122

I would have thought in most cases like that there is a hardware difference somewhere, even if it is same engine block the valves are different or something, but don't know enough to be honest.

But anyway that is not the same, what is purchase is what you purchase. Its not like if you don't keep up payments they manufacturer can downgrade your car to lower hp.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330252#Comment_119330252

This is the key issue.

A subscription implying guarantee on a car that is very often bought outright, is messy territory for both parties.

hunter2000

As the government are currently riding is I’m not sure when will bmw get to rod us.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331167#Comment_119331167

Your right thats the case for some engines but nowadays there are loads of engines that are literally identical with different horsepower outputs depending on the make, model, or trim level

User1998

In my opinion if they start charging people to use heated seats on cars that usually would have them as standard then that is a bit scabby. But on cars where they are an option I really don’t see the issue. As above I’d say its mostly for production line reasons

griffin100

I had a brand new BMW 2 series over last Christmas as a replacement when mine was in getting repaired. When I tried to use the HBA (automatic high beams) a QR code appeared on the dash and I could buy this ‘extra’ via the code. More than scabby when you consider the price of a new 2 series and the fact this is only a software issue rathe than part of the physical build of the car.

McGrath5

Pity - I can't imagine any BMW owner will pay the subscription for the indicators.

Beta Ray Bill

It's out and out greed.

Like that would totally put me off buying a BMW

Do manufactures no realize that most of use want a square box that's safe, cheap and environmentally friendly. I don't need something with a load of crap in it.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331167#Comment_119331167

Good example is current Octavia, 2.0 TDI 150 model is €2000 more than the 2.0 TDI 115 engine. The only difference is the software, and they are the same emissions and VRT rate.

Cookie_Monster

This is coming across the board. VW have already have it in their plans. Single models builds for WLTP purposes and you can either buy the base spec and subscribe to various features on demand or pay for a top spec and everything is unlocked permanently.

Even drivetrain will be locked behind subscription, vehicle 4wd but 2wd as standard and 4wd needs sub to unlock.

D3V!L

KTM motorcycles have been doing this for years ! They'll sell a top of the range bike with all the hardware on it and then charge you to use it.

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334233#Comment_119334233

You can't waltz into a Skoda dealer and get them to "unlock" the extra 35hp for a fee though, you would have to get the car remapped elsewhere instead. I get the point though, but somehow it feels different and would not bother most people when buying a car as the majority of the buying public would not realise the engine and setup is the same between both models.

I know the subscription model has been around for years for phones and IT services (I have worked in IT for 25 years), but it just feels wrong to apply it to cars at this late stage in the game. It all just smacks of "runaway Capitalism" now and trying to squeeze every last cent out of the customer to then hand over to shareholders (and yes, I am aware that R&D, Advertising and other business expenses cost money). In the last 10 years, car prices have increased massively and looking at even the past year, the increases have been huge so asking people to pay a monthly fee for certain features still does not sit right with me.

Either way, this is going to happen as I think the target market for these subscriptions are already well used to paying for such services (a slightly disguised way of saying, I'm too old to fall for this 🙂). I will avoid paying for any extra services on my car as I figure paying €40k (and beyond) for a vehicle should get you the features you need. At least there is still a mechanism to pay for something in perpetuity... now, whether that transfers to the next owner of the vehicle; well, that is another question.

colm_mcm

I was just replying to a comment that questioned mechanical differences between engine variants.

In the case of Skoda, the 115ps engine is filling a gap made by the 1.6 TDI which has been pensioned off. I would guess that the actual production cost of a 1.6 and 2.0 TDI is minimal but it was easier to justify the extra few grand when you were getting something physically different. So is the 115ps subsidised or the 150ps penalised? I wonder 😆

Montage of Feck

If this is the future of cars I'd rather cycle! Leave the subscription services to the IT fanboys.

Clareman

I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying for clearly software services, stuff like map updates, extra software functionality or other stuff but in this case this is hardware, it's your seat (which you paid for) being heated from a fuel source (which you paid for). Looking at my last car, front heated seats were standard, I did pay extra for adaptive headlights (€200),if i had to pay even €1 a month for that feature I wouldn't but I didn't even give it a second thought when I was buying the car

creedp

So let me just fully understand what's going on here. What's being suggested that instead of buying a base model and paying for desired options, people will pay for fully loaded cars but won't be able to use many of the options already installed but simply drag them around wasting energy?

Might be a good model for used car buyers if they could subsequently activate options that the 'tight arsed' new car buyer couldn't be bothered with. Would make buying a used car less complicated as nowadays its almost impossible to be certain what model you're buying and what optional extras are included.

I'm summary the worlds gone mad!