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Spain and Portugal are at their driest for 1,200 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,720 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk

    Big problems in Italy too. The sh*t will really hit the fan when these droughts lead to food shortages.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia

    According to the experts on here we're heading for an ice age

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,720 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk

  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Only when they start listening to people like Allan Savory and start doing holistic management will they ever fix it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402

    The discussion should be advanced enough to discuss the limitations of modelling where short or medium term atmospheric conditions remain acceptable and useful, whereas attempting to extend modelling on to conditions of the oceans, atmosphere and surface into the distant future is not just overreaching, but undermines what planetary climate actually is within the umbrella of the motions of the planet in a Sun-centred system.

    This meteorological community has a rightful culture in terms of weather conditions, however, it allows the presence of a subculture within its ranks with specific shortcomings when it comes to cause and effect between planetary motions and responses on the surface and the atmosphere. It is therefore easy for those who run with climate change modelling to create polarised positions and goad others into reacting in the absence of accurate perspectives of planetary motions, whereas a more balanced view places dynamics as a primary driver of climate.

    Information sharing displaces information misuse as the objective is to raise the standard of consideration rather than contend with convictions which are crude and serve no productive purpose.

    "I know; such men do not deduce their conclusion from its premises or establish it by reason, but they accommodate (I should have said discommode and distort) the premises and reasons to a conclusion which for them is already established and nailed down. No good can come of dealing with such people, especially to the extent that their company may be not only unpleasant but dangerous." Galileo

    I am eager not to participate so that the alternative approach to climate connected to planetary motions emerges in a more substantive way. It means starting from scratch while using observations of the Earth from space to assign cause and effect properly. It is using modelling for interpretation rather than predictions at these scales so it does not interfere with short term weather modelling and predictions which occupies most readers in this forum.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Billcarson

    Hate the Azores high,outside the summer months anyway.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭IrishHomer

    Yes I've been the Costa Blanca a lot over the past 25 years and this past winter, spring and early summe was the coldest wettest one I ever saw there. Even today there the land on the region was never so green and lush. I won't read the article the headline is joke in my opinion

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,479 ✭✭✭pauldry

    There's always been Climate Change only now man made pollution interferes with the earth's natural system of Climate cycles. So it's quite a dangerous mix really.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭highdef

    So are you saying that planetary motions are or are not causing the unusual global weather (record rains, record drought, record heat, record cold, etc)? Or are you just talking about what your personal views are and how your disagree? I may have misread your post but from my point of view, you don't seem to have constructively added any valid input to this chat however I admit that I'm just as guilty on that part with this reply.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭dalyboy

    Well no offence meant with this but why pull this poster up on lack of constructive input ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭highdef

    Because it's a regular occurrence. Statements made but no discussion. Banned from other sections of Boards, I've been informed, but not this section for some reason. "planetary motions" are mentioned very regularly and I've argued that such topics should be in the astronomy section, not here in weather. Poster is allegedly banned from the Astronomy section, hence probably explains why poster posts the statements here.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭NedsNotDead

    @highdef Ah, but your forgetting. The OP is not interested in discussion. Its all about 'information sharing'. But apparently only a select few are able to understand and process such information:)

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭yagan

    Climate change is constant is so true.

    I only read recently about the Roman warm era where between 300 BCE to 200 CE the med region had a localised increase in temp that were not recorded in any data collected from elsewhere in the world. Grain was the lifeblood of the legions on the frontiers and it's thought that the climate cooling after 200CE lead to reduced crop yields which in turn weakened the empire's ability to sustain legions furthest from the med.

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous

    Nothing alleged about it, I remember reading that crap every few months there years ago, with a new account each time when the old one was banned.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    Climate change is real folks.

    It has always changed over long spans, millions of changes in the billions of years of this Planet. Its changing now.

    The question is whether anthropomorphosis is 100% to blame, or whether the actions of humanity can in fact, now, do much to halt and reverse current trends. My own view is that the reality for both, lies somewhere in the middle.

    However, whats not in doubt, is that we should no longer be incinerating material from the crust of the Earth to heat and cool ourselves and move about. Only through renewables will we de-monetise energy and try to end the economic pain suffered by those at the mercy of fossil fuel markets. Only through renewables, can each Country, each region, become entirely energy independent, from clean, predictable sources.

    Yes Spain and Portugal are suffering, but they aren't standing still, they are creating the World's biggest solar arrays and investing in technology to keep their land arable and their livestock healthy.

    In the meantime, if the worst thing Ireland has to worry about, turns out to be a scarcity of snow, we won't have much to complain about.

  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402

    Planetary motions present the skeletal structure for planetary climate so cyclical weather topics come within the umbrella of dynamics long before a desperate attempt to make weather look like climate without reference to that skeletal structure. In short, accounting for cyclical weather events like the seasons reflects what the Earth is doing in space and presently the underlying causes of these cyclical events are not sufficiently appreciated.

    The argument that planetary dynamics (astronomy) doesn't belong in a meteorology forum would perhaps be valid if the topic was exclusively short term weather events and predictions, however, everything cyclical, from the day/night to glacial/inter-glacial cycles involve cyclical motions within the topic of planetary climate.

    I have been notified by a moderator that even the prediction where the faster moving Mercury will appear moving behind the central Sun from right to left in a number of days as seen from a satellite tracking with the Earth will get a ban.

    Just scroll the dates forward while putting the motions of Mercury and the Earth in relation to the central Sun in context with the time lapse and observers will come to appreciate and enjoy how visual observations provide conclusions while keeping predictions as a minor role for interpretative purposes.

    Individual weather events from droughts and floods, heatwaves and cold snaps, miserable summers and miserable winters tells the reader little about climate while the motions of the planet tells the reader quite a lot.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia

    Yeah if antarctic glaciers increase calving while also expanding and those icebergs survive to higher latitudes then this would be a sign of a pending ice age.

    However if the glaciers are calving because of retreating ice in Antarctica or because the ice shelves are breaking up. This is absolutely not a sign of a coming ice age

    'The climate is always changing' is wrong if you don't consider the timescale. Climate is stable over human lifespan timescales. The speed of global climate change is unprecedented since the human species emerged and that speed is accelerating.

    When climates change slowly life adapts. When it changes rapidly life migrates. When there is nowhere to migrate, those animals die and species go extinct

    We're in a mass extinction event now caused by human activity

  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402

    I would hope readers would take the time out to appreciate the new demonstration that the Earth moves through space and around the central/stationary Sun by using modelling and predictions for interpretative purposes only. It is central to Earth sciences like climate, biology and geology to determine as close as possible the clues which link planetary motions with effects on the surface of this planet as it rotates every day and runs a circuit of the Sun.

    The light hemisphere of Mercury faces us presently so appears dazzling whereas it is barely discernible when it passes between the Earth and the Sun when it shows its dark hemisphere to us.

    Just scroll the dates forward to interpret how we see our planet and Mercury move in a Sun-centred system for the same perceptive faculties are needed when accounting for the seasons and planetary climate among other things. There are no dire warnings or conclusions attached, just the sheer satisfaction in exercising those faculties which are largely underused into today's world in solar system research, planetary motions, Earth sciences and how they all link up to each other.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭NedsNotDead

    And what exactly does this have to do with the Weather