General Premier League Thread 2022-23 - mod note in OP 12/03/23

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209569#Comment_120209569

Juventus have had 15 points deducted this season for false accounting and financial irregularities. I think that’s what might happen to City here if they make the charge stick.

Juve got relegated a few years ago for bribery. Rangers didn’t get relegated, they went out of business and started out as a new club in the bottom tier in Scotland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209795#Comment_120209795

Financial integrity? Not something I'd associate with top level football!

If the PL were doing their job right City and Newcastle wouldn't even have their owners in place.

I don't trust them one bit to sort out this issue properly.

DellyBelly

Hopefully City do face tough sanctions, if not then they will just continue to dominate the league like they have for the last 10 years.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209416#Comment_120209416

I think this is correct. If the sanctions are in anyway ‘cost of doing business’ then clubs will take the gamble. You can retrospectively strip a title years later; but the plaudits were long since written and celebrations enjoyed. Most of the players involved will have retired, etc.

It has to be so severe that it makes cheating a negative endeavour and not worth it.

This is a crossing point. If the EPL follows through, sports washing as a concept will be seriously threatened. In English football at least. If the EPL fail or apply minor sanction (or “showy” sanctions described above) then this will be the sport. And more clubs will be bought for the same purpose.

It’s a moment, no doubt about it.

NIMAN

I really hope a fine isn't the only punishment. Means nothing to the owners.

It's like when teams get a fine for racist chanting of their fans, or being unable to control their players. Means nothing to huge clubs.

Have always thought points deductions or bans are needed in such cases, then change would happen.

Ramasun

I thought the Chelsea shopping spree was the point of no return for the PL.

That Man City have been breaking financial rules is a surprise to no one and you can be sure they aren't the only ones.

This circus doesn't have long before it either collapses in on itself or is regulated back to a normal domestic competition.

fergiesfolly

Not only do I hope City are stripped of the their titles, I hope the players are asked to hand back their winners medals. The players( or some of them ) were also on the end of dodgy payments and shouldn't get to display winners medals they achieved through false endeavour.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210297#Comment_120210297

Will the Premier League be following through with anything? Surely the independent commission will decide any guilt and sanctions?

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210334#Comment_120210334

Well, with Chelsea, they exploited a loophole with long term contracts that UEFA has since closed.

City is a different beast altogether, repeated breaches of a host of financial regs - and it’s not like they’ve stopped either, there are very recent examples of sponsorship money coming in from extremely suspicious or outright fictional companies too, I’m sure that will all come out as the PL investigation continues.

I wouldn’t be so sure either that the punishment if they’re found guilty would just be a fine. The PL is essentially the will of its members and they will need more than just being paid off as City’s spending ultimately ends up hurting their bottom line. Can’t see retroactive punishment, I can see clubs pushing for serious curtailment of the amount of money City can spend.

SlickRic

the big problem, of course, is that a bottomless pit of money can keep things in the courts for as long as it wishes.

so what I expect will happen is this won't end for many years, and by the end, there will be a slap on the wrist (i.e. a fine) to make the whole stop, because all it's doing is lining lawyers' pockets.

El Gato De Negocios

This really is make or break for the FA. Everybody knows City have been obfuscating their finances since the day they were taken over and I do think its gotten this far as they have simply gotten arrogant about it. UEFA tried to catch them and they got tied up in red tape until such time as they could no longer pursue the charges. The FA have no such restrictions so they will be happy to keep it going. There is little reason to think they (the FA) are acting on suspicions and they must have multiple examples of concrete evidence.

If they do not come down on them like a tonne of bricks then there is little point in pursuing the case in the first place. A transfer ban for a couple of years would mean nothing as they have the best squad in the world currently with a raft of young academy players waiting in the wings. A fine, even into hundreds of millions would mean nothing as they are backed by one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

So what does that leave? It can only be expulsion from the league and all the trophies they have won being asterisked. As a United fan I dont care nor do I want to see us awarded trophies they are stripped of but their double dealing must be stricken from the record.

If the FA do not win this case and impose the harshest possible sanctions then they are bolloxed, any image of integrity about them or the league is immediately dashed.

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210487#Comment_120210487

Spot on

being thrown out of the league etc won’t happen that’s just the media getting carried away and fans of other teams getting excited.

anything involving millions of pounds has and always will be full of corruption it’s just the way things work, Man City had more money that anyone else and took tbe corruption as far as they could as would any other club in that position.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210530#Comment_120210530

Its not the FA bringing these charges, it’s the PL - and that makes expulsion extremely unlikely as I would imagine the PL clubs will get a say in the punishment if they’re found guilty.

The PL clubs will be happy to keep City in the league as it strengthens the brand, but will want their flagrant overspending reigned in more than anything else.

I personally believe though that unless the book is thrown at them, they’ll keep breaking the rules, they’ll just find new ways to do it.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210657#Comment_120210657

City doesn't strengthen their brand where is this narrative coming from I keep reading? They have won 4 of the last 5 leagues, while cooking the books and made it entirely uncompetitive financially. The league doesn't want a situation where its turns into the Bundesliga, no one is interested in that league, that damages the brand far more. The league will come down hard on city if the commission recommends it to.

So the possible punishments:

Fine - pointless

Transfer embargo - unless its 3 years minimum again that's a slap on the wrist

Expulsion - it seems unlikely but if the league want them gone its possible

Retrospective points deduction - seems the most likely to me, if they are guilty of cheating financially they gained an advantage over other clubs, which led to more points gained and will lead to been stripped of a number of titles.

This a pivotal moment for the league, if they lose this I honestly think the premier league is over. Newcastle will do what they want and city further their dominance.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210730#Comment_120210730

I agree that long term allowing City(and therefore Newcastle) do to as they please will ultimately destroy the league, but from an owner’s perspective but I do think they’d keep city knowing that it there’ll be less big games the PL/Sky/BT can sell to advertisers if they’re booted out.

I don’t think owners care about past titles, and if it was up to them, ensuring that City can only spend what they’re supposed to going forward would be good enough.

I don’t agree with it, I think all of their success is massively tainted and I would prefer a much harsher punishment - I’m just trying to be realistic.

davywalsh7

I think they could come down hard on city here.

With Newcastle and chelsea's backing and potential dubai/Qatar etc investment in united and liverpool they will surely want to lay a marker down

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210812#Comment_120210812

As league fans we don't need investigations to know the success is tainted, they are blatantly reporting the highest commercial income in the world, which we all know is impossible to be legitimate. We watch the games on TV, their gate revenue is BS too and now they want to increase the stadium size to further the lie.

Your point about SKY and BT is moot, the players are the attraction, they will play for other clubs. They'd move on from city after a season.

I'm sticking by my judgement if the punishment is not the strongest possible, the PL is over, no one could stop a super league then.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210530#Comment_120210530

Its the PL bringing these charges i.e the other 19 clubs. They want the book thrown at them and if they can get rid of them they will to send out the strongest possible message.

I wonder could the PL force a sale of the club if found guilty, City can stay in the league but not under these owners.

yourdeadwright

The problem with this is no matter the punishment, City will get to continue on with a squad of player built through cheating ,How can that be fair ,

El Gato De Negocios

If that happened I'm sure Sheik Shansoor who would be completely unconnected would end up buying them.

NIMAN

Great to see this happen. The EPL is already an ESL by another name. There is so much money sloshing around it, its frightening.

Would be good to see its main team hit for breaking the rules. Relegation would be funny! But can't see that happening.

The Big Easy

A 50 point deduction for this season would make for an interesting relegation battle anyway.

They'd need 86-90 points to stay up, would be fun to see Pep under that kind of pressure 😅

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210941#Comment_120210941

:)

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210023#Comment_120210023

Rangers were taken over by a company called Sevco. There were a few years when on Scottish football fora the Celtic fans used to call them Sevco and it was a literal red rag to a bull. The company did change its name to Rangers something-or-other but the Sevco moniker stuck for a while!

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210881#Comment_120210881

The PL brought the charges, but the independent commission is the body charged with deciding on guilt and sanctions (within the PL rules).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211190#Comment_120211190

Ya a lot of people seem to be missing this point.

The PL rules are very vague too. The commission could do literally anything to City. Seeing as this is unprecedented in England I do think the current Juve situation and previous ffp cases will be used as a guide. That would mean a 1 season points deduction and transfer bad the worst they will get is a Euro ban on top of that.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211214#Comment_120211214

This is 9 seasons and they've refused to cooperate for years after. They are accused of 9 seasons of cheating, its unprecedented, this is on another scale to Juventus if found guilty.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209606#Comment_120209606

Two huge clubs are up for sale.

The Premier League will not risk the potential block buster sale of those to clubs by showing themselves to "over regulate" when it comes to financial dealings.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210334#Comment_120210334

This circus doesn't have long before it either collapses in on itself or is regulated back to a normal domestic competition.

I've been saying that for years and it still hasn't happened.

And the way the Saudis are coming on board I don't think it will ever happen.

I've given up saying it.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211276#Comment_120211276

Those 2 clubs are more attractive to buyers though in a regulated financial league, they both generate huge amounts of legitimate commercial income. If your not buying it as a sports washing vehicle whats the point of spending 3bn on Liverpool when you can't compete with city's magical numbers. FSG want out of Liverpool as the sustainable model has a life span when you are competing with Man City.