General Premier League Thread 2022-23 - mod note in OP 12/03/23

Mr.Crinklewood · 02-01-2023 08:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057534#Comment_120057534

Four star will be praying he scores four in a game

pjohnson · 02-01-2023 09:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057493#Comment_120057493

XG is such a faux useful consolation stat.

02-01-2023 09:45PM

I've never got the distain for xg stats is it just an getting old kinda thing much better stat then shots on goal, shots on target etc

Now like anything it can be used to try inflate or exaggerate things, the Nunez projections people were making from small sample sizes, and numbers that were never going to remain as high was imo a bad use of them.

But it's pretty hard to talk about football without using stats in any meaningful way and xg numbers tell the most accurate story.

Fitz* · 02-01-2023 10:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057777#Comment_120057777

yet it's a key metric that well informed, smart clubs will use when looking to buy forwards. They don't just judge on goals and assists like they did in the 90s when trying to recruit a new forward.

All_in_Flynn · 02-01-2023 10:52PM

Weird watching Liverpool this season compared to the second half of last season.

Bit of a perfect storm for them in a sense with injuries and some key players starting to wane. VVD has been getting away with it from pundits for a while now. He's been middling at best since his injury. He's not as mobile but in his defence he is being exposed more this season a lot more due to the teams press malfunctioning nigh on every game.

Salah has to my eye lost a yard. The intensity in his running is not there this season. Big test for Klopp now. They are under massive pressure for top 4 and barring a buyout I can't see him getting the money required to fix that midfield.

breezy1985 · 02-01-2023 10:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058011#Comment_120058011

It is an important and valuable stat but it gets misused by fans and has kinda become the new "you ONLY won because of your keeper" as if a good keeper is cheating.

Its like your not allowed win on goals if you don't win on XG

pjohnson · 02-01-2023 10:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058011#Comment_120058011

Sure but XG doesnt score actual goals to win games.

Its an interesting stat sure but its not exactly relevant for the majority of discussions, at least not how it is used in those discussions. As @[Deleted User] said its one of those stats that gets regularly misused to push a desired viewpoint.

Relevant unbiased stats are definitely relevant and are indeed used by "well informed smart clubs". But fans also mis-use and manipulate bâstardised stats to "proove" whatever the desired result is.

XG is on such metric that is regularly used to push statistical fallacies.

The same issues also arise in a lot of NBA discussions as shooting stats are regularly mangled to "boost/lower" a players shooting averages. No franchise would do it but fans certainly will. Thats why teams have data analysts to ensure they arent using garbage statistics.

Fitz* · 02-01-2023 11:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058092#Comment_120058092

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058091#Comment_120058091

yeah I'd very much agree it can be mis-used and is being mis-used.

It's a stat that maybe could be more suited to being used pre-emptively, and not reactively in some situations - ie a player is getting into good positions lately for chances but has been unlucky so I think he will score next week. But then what else do we have - shots on target can be misleading, as this does include pea-rollers of shots, but doesn't include back post nipped wide shots. It doesn't include shots hitting the post. As we know, it's possible to have an attacking situation that is dangerous, but does not reflect in the shots at goal stat.

I think XG is somewhat fair (and we are probably too much in the infantry stage to be including player specific XG rather than a generic XG), but I wouldn't be shouting about 'winning the game on XG', but moreso 'unlucky that team A didn't win' because of the quality of chances created over the coursee of the game I guess it's really more around the narrative that comes with the XG stat itself.

Maybe we'll see a shift in the in-game analysis in years to come to just 'number of chances' and 'total XG' instead of 'attempts' and 'shots on target'. Would this be a fairer reflection? Perhaps. Off the top of my head. one game that sticks out to me in terms of stats and shots, but the game finishing in a different result is this one. I couldn't tell you what the shots were like, or the goals etc as it was so long ago now and I've watched so many games in between. I think maybe Tony Wyatt scored and ruined a bet I had at the time! Were the Celtic goals once a season type strikers, were the Barcelona shots on target all outside the box and comfortable for the keeper or horrible misses? I think XG can help answer those questions.

At the end of the day, it's about putting the ball into the back of the net though. and that's the stat that matters the most, or the only stat.

03-01-2023 12:24AM

Re Salah: is he playing way wider this season than before? I've seen Pool a handful of times and he really seems to hug the touchline in the few times I've seen him.

yourdeadwright · 03-01-2023 09:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058310#Comment_120058310

Salah still has 16 goals this season & we all know he can & will score goals

The right side has fallen apart since the inclusion of Elliot, defensively & attacking wise its far worse,

Trent gets no help going back is well documented but attacking wise he is not nearly getting as much space as he is used to,

Henderson for all his faults constantly makes that inside to out run down the right wing that means he has to be tracked, & it opens up space for Mo or Trent to step up in to , He does it time and time again Elliot does not have the pace or stamina to do it like Jordan & it means the whole side is rarely ever opened up ,

doc_17 · 03-01-2023 10:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057392#Comment_120057392

How would allowing them advertisers to offer in game ads be a deal breaker for them?

The_Kew_Tour · 03-01-2023 04:59PM

It's amazing to see the name calling Liverpool players and manager is getting on social media from their supporters. Some nasty stuff being said.

Klopp and players deserve far more respect than that for what they have done for club.

Arsenal v Newcastle should be very interesting game tonight.

If Arsenal win they go into next two big games full of confidence

Quazzie · 03-01-2023 05:17PM

Saka and Saliba (and possibly more) are on 4 yellows. Does anyone know if they get booked tonight would it be the FA cup game against Oxford (next game) that they're suspended for?

castletownman · 03-01-2023 05:38PM

I find it mad too that not too long ago Elliott was being hailed as a golden boy by the same supporters hounding him now. I had a couple of Pool fans in my social circle convinced he'd win YPOTY. There was also incredulity for a while how Fred was starting ahead of Fabinho for the Brazilian team. He was meant to be the best player in his position in the world according to these lads.

There must be some regression under Klopp this season then if these superstar are suddenly a liability.

L'prof · 03-01-2023 05:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060729#Comment_120060729

Jesus too but I’d say he’s safe enough. There’s a couple on 3 that can’t be too rash for the next few games

From their own rules it looks like it has to be served in the PL

ShamoBuc · 03-01-2023 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060650#Comment_120060650

Name calling by fans and or opposition fans goes on everyday. Social media is always full of comments and name calling from randomers who say they follow a club - but we all know not necessarily. Some amount of stuff on Ronaldo, Saka, Kane, etc on an ongoing basis, Liverpool players are of course no different, never have been.

I'm amazed that you are Amazed in fairness.

El Gato De Negocios · 03-01-2023 05:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060842#Comment_120060842

It's pretty clear the blame sits firmly with Klopp and his staff. While they don't have the financial capacity of City, Chelsea, United etc they have still spent a fair bit of twine and ignored critical areas. The fact that so many players are consistently injured for prolonged periods of time also raises an eyebrow. I'm not talking about impact injuries like VVD suffered but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of muscular injuries, on a consistent basis, to any other top team. This would indicate that players are expected to stretch beyond the realms of what the human body can comfortably do on a regular basis. Previous Duracell bunny type players now look like they are being powered by batteries from Lidl.

Fitz* · 03-01-2023 06:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060949#Comment_120060949

The club doctor that did so much good work a few years ago left for a very prominent role with FIFA. He was replaced and then subsequently left again. The club went a few months this season without a permanent club doctor again with one only appointed during the WC break.

The club had a massive injury crisis 2 seasons ago when a few impact injuries in the same position meant more players became injured as the were forced into playing more. Wear & tear. The same is happening again this season. When rotation is not possible, players get injured more. When rotation is possible, players get injured less.

Largely the seasons in between like 18-19 / 19-20 / 21-22 have not seen this mass number of injuries at one time as rotation was possible.

doc_17 · 03-01-2023 07:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060650#Comment_120060650

Yes, it is amazing what some people say about Liverpool and their manager online. But I’m glad you are on Liverpool’s side.

doc_17 · 03-01-2023 07:58PM

Is Arteta allowed to go basically go up and down the sideline unchecked?

theoneeyedman · 03-01-2023 08:06PM

Fulham lead again, as it stands level with Liverpool on points (as results stand at present)..

Quazzie · 03-01-2023 08:26PM

Ref had no intention of booking Ødegaard, but did when the Newcastle players gathered around him

theoneeyedman · 03-01-2023 08:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061483#Comment_120061483

Jesus, but both of these teams are in soon mood tonight.

Both the Arsenal and Newcastle benches getting involved at every chance, and both teams have seemingly identified a weak referee because every tackle let alone every foul is seeing him surrounded by several players looking for cards. Feckin hard to watch, two teams at it. 5 yellows before halftime and scarcely a dirty tackle.

03-01-2023 08:30PM

This Newcastle side are beyond unlikeable

03-01-2023 08:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061638#Comment_120061638

Not many dirty tackles but Newcastle are fouling Arsenal off the pitch, no momentum in the game whatsoever. Taking 30 seconds to take any set piece too

theoneeyedman · 03-01-2023 08:42PM

I'd not disagree with you, very cynical any time I've seen them this season. Arsenal trying to play but contributing to the potentially nasty atmosphere on the pitch.