Strange New Worlds 1x06 - 'Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Strange New Worlds 1x06 - 'Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 

AMKC

I must sat great start to this episode.

There is something I have a problem with do.

I do not think the Enterprise would have cadets assigned to communication or engineering or security because it is the flagship of the fleet.

I know the Enterprise -D had Wesley but he was a child genius.

Spoiler Warning

We see here what happens with an incompetent person at the controls of weapons. I think anyone would be trained first before being allowed anywhere near them on the flagship.

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lift_Us_Where_Suffering_Cannot_Reach_%28episode%29

^^^ SPOILERS and episode breakdown will soon be published in that link.

Enjoyable episode, who would have thought that Pike was a bit of a ladies man?

"I thought about you--us-- often, and wished that you would have come with me."

"Chris, I didn't need to. That's what I'm trying to say. They brought you back to me. Not the real you-- it's illusionary, of course-- but the part of you that still lives inside of me. We spent a lifetime together."

"I'm glad...I'm glad you're not alone."

"All this time, you kept me sane. Kept me tethered to what I once felt. Even though I was never the person you thought I was."

"You didn't deceive anyone, Vina. I felt it, too. But you're here now. This is real."

"As real as it needs to be." - Christopher Pike and Vina (DIS: "If Memory Serves")

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vina

liamtech

I actually thought it was pretty good - Interesting for sure

The fact the Prime Directive wasnt mentioned (or general order one) is interesting - although the more i think of it, perhaps it was correct to leave it out

It was decent - im gonna have to rewatch it - i think it still qualifies as a good episode IMHO - by my reckoning SNW is knocking it out of the park now - 6/6

Needs a rewatch though

corkie

Plot/Script has been compared to the short story

"The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" by Ursula Le Guin

Star Trek Strange New Worlds Ep 6 "Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach" REVIEW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQhtUBv3f0

Not enough world building to establish that the Planet was a Utopia!

AMKC

The music in it was spot on almost movie like. In fact I think this whole episode would have made a great movie.

eadrom

Great stuff, again. Star Trek does whodunit melodrama.

Wouldn't be my favourite of the season so far but that's fine. The planet they were at was really interesting. I don't mind at all that there isn't more time for (rather literal) world building, my imagination filled in a whole lot of stuff and I'm cool with that. No need for lengthy exposition.

This show is such a joy. I love that I've got no idea what to expect next week. Comedy? Action? Suspense? Horror? New planet, new adventure. Love it.

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180193#Comment_119180193

I was just coming on here to say that exact thing. Last scene with Pike and I felt like I sat through a decent quality Trek movie, they packed a lot in there.

First twenty minutes or so I was like, okay got the gist of this one. Help a shuttle, turns out the people they saved seem a bit dodge, captain sleeps with their leader, transporter shenanigans, find yer man, learn a lesson etc.

But Jesus did that take a dark turn! Got very heavy and with a bit of a massive slap to the face of a conclusion, and done perfectly. Excellent, excellent stuff. Good Trek basic plotline of a decent episode, a confounding moral or philosophical question, and a dark, but somewhat optimistic ending. And just the right mix of the darkness of a lot of the new Trek. A bit like DS9 was a good bit darker than TNG, but still had the right essence of the precursor that it worked.

Honestly, this is the show I had hoped Discovery might have been. Could you imagine if they had managed to launch this five years ago!

fritzelly

Weakest episode so far, I would say, but when I say weakest it had a lot to live up to and was still brilliant and thoroughly enjoyed

Amazing that SNW can tell a whole story with depth and intrigue in just one episode and Disco can barely do it over a whole season

Spear

It was still solid, but also the weakest yet. The twist of the boy's fate was obvious from the start, with the only real surprise being that there was no neat saccharine ending.

AMKC

I disagree in calling that a weak episode. It had most of what you want in a Star Trek episode. It had the moral Dilemma. It had Pike trying to be the Hero but not being able to and it had Dr.M'Benga coming close to getting a cure for his daughter but unable too.

It also had a way out for Pike to change his course in life but that would mean him leaving the life in loves and potentially mean the deaths of the cadets in the accident ten years from now.

What I do not get is since Pike knows how his life changes and what happens to the cadets can he not just make sure that does not happen? Maybe it's one of many tests do and he does not have an exact date. Who knows.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180921#Comment_119180921

Although I don't like the M'benga/kid plot overall, I did like the way it was handled in this one. There was a forlorn, lost cause undertone to it, ending with a hint of hope but no simple answer.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180573#Comment_119180573

Honestly, this is the show I had hoped Discovery might have been. Could you imagine if they had managed to launch this five years ago!

 That would have been great. Sometimes do you must stumble and fall before picking yourself up again and I guess that is what Star Trek has done for a while

ilovesmybrick

Now, my one major fear, considering the way this society runs, and the allusion to the "elders (or whatever)" saying they needed to hook up kids to a computer to regulate society. Don't do another Borg thing, there's more than enough without that chain to be yanked again.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181062#Comment_119181062

One unintended benefit of the return to enclosed episodes is that we're not going to see some ham fisted attempt to link everything together into some big cobweb.

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181093#Comment_119181093

Haven't seen the sneak peek of next weeks episode so yet!

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181104#Comment_119181104

Sadly, Youtube's recommendations system has already spoiled that.

GSPfan

I liked this one. I’d say it’s ranked lowest out of the 6 so far but only cause the others were so good.

Some Thoughts…

• Pike getting some sexy time with an alien is good. He really is a throwback Captain.

• Not much for the crew to do on this one. Very centred on the Captain and M’Benga.

• I want to see his daughter cured by the end of the season, if not the next. I fear that she won’t be cured though.

• It felt like a TNG storyline but with a cruel ending that didn’t save the child. I think that helped the episode.

Spear

A small detail I noted, at the end he's staring out a window at what appears to be a pulsar, presumably the one where it all started.

TheValeyard

I really enjoyed it. You could see the ending coming a mile off (I've seen far, far, far too much sci fi) lol.

But it was still very interesting, music was brilliant, lore was good, ending decent. The whole thing worked.

Six out of six so far for me!

Slydice

That was so obvious from the get-go but I thought they explored the story well and did a good job trying it into Pike in two ways. First how he looks at people and accepting their fate.. the overarching plot... and second his values and how he reacted to what had happened in the end.

lol, totally sus early on when she objected to an investigation combined with the episode not-showing of the crew of the other ship

odyssey06

Echoes of some Babylon 5 technology, where we saw a lot of instances of technology merged with a sentient being.

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181104#Comment_119181104

Spoiler based on the above: -

Spoiler Warning

So that is the New Non Binary character?

‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ To Introduce Nonbinary Character Played By Jesse James Keitel ~ Link

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181353#Comment_119181353

Honestly didn't know that, I was talking about the

Spoiler Warning

Tholian web

FutureGuy

One of the most socially relevant Trek episodes in decades. Very good.

CastorTroy

Did they say how long each kid is hooked up for?

I was thinking it strange that for such an advanced race, their ships seemed pretty crap.

Oh and I had double dose of Lindy Booth tonight (not a bad thing), watching the new episode of The Flash before this.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181881#Comment_119181881

They were noted to be fairly isolationist several times, so not much need for ships if you don't want to travel anywhere.

pjcb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181775#Comment_119181775

because we hook kids up to computers which drains them to death?

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181957#Comment_119181957

Maybe it works better as an analogy in the US with their habit of standing idly by while kids are killed.

FutureGuy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182208#Comment_119182208

I think it is more a mirror to the fact that our society uses a lot of goods that are made with child slave labour.

FutureGuy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181957#Comment_119181957

No, because we hook them up to factories and mines in China, India and Africa to make our fancy goods. We know it's happening but we turn the other way.

GSPfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182208#Comment_119182208

Yeah i noticed that not so subtle dig. I think you could reference a lot of things too. Sending young men to war would be another analogy. If you could achieve peace and prosperity by sacrificing one child would you do that over the alternative of disease and war and social problems killing thousands of kids.

PS. Boards bouncing the screen halfway up the page while I’m trying to post something is ridiculous. Every 20-15 seconds it happens.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182384#Comment_119182384

The bouncing thing is a known issue, there's a dedicated thread in Feedback:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245395/can-you-please-just-fix-the-bouncing

TheIrishGrover

Weakest episode so far for me too.... But that does not mean it was a weak episode.

The kid was great. Not annoying or all "Billy-Barry 'Actually it's like this' punchable", (Actually all the actors were great). His interactions to the crew was great.

It is a classic Sci-Fi trope: The utopia based on some (functional or superstitious) sacrifice of the innocent. But again, this is not a criticism. All genre shows use the same tropes from time to time (We have already had the body-swap and possessed tropes).

They are definitely going down the line of Uhura being an all-round genius as opposed to being just a linguistic one. And that makes sense. It's 2022. Can't have her just answering the phone. (I think I may have stolen that from Galaxy Quest).

So, for me, what I mean by the "weakest" in that it wasn't a barrel of delightful laughs. But that is actually OK. This is Trek. Not a comedy show. It is great, solid old-school Trek. Again, another ball hit out of the park.

They have NAILED this show. More. More. MORE!!!!!!!

Spoiler Warning

Did Pike say his accident happened in 7 years? Huh... That seems suspiciously like a standard Trek series run 😀

corkie

@TheIrishGrover Re spoiler: - SNW Timeline.

Spoiler Warning

SNW is not only a prequel to TOS, but it’s also a sequel to Discovery. When Pike’s Enterprise shows up on Star Trek: Discovery in its second season, the year is 2258. SNW takes place six months later, after the Enterprise has seemingly had another refit in spacedock. This places the show seven years before we meet Kirk and Spock in the TOS pilot “Where No Man Has Gone Before,” which takes place in 2265. Pre-established canon tells us that Pike commanded one more five-year mission before Kirk took the center seat, and before they promoted Pike to Fleet Captain.......

..... Regardless of the timeline, SNW is an absolute joy to watch. And its canonicity, or lack of it, shouldn’t deter viewers from enjoying a series that is the purest Trek the franchise has been in ages....... ~~ Link containing spoilers.

Alternative link Pike Timeline

Above links are examples of where the timeline is explained.

corkie

It is a classic Sci-Fi trope: The utopia based on some (functional or superstitious) sacrifice of the innocent.

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Learning_Curve

'Blunty' compares it to above episode of SG-1, in his review. At first I thought he was referring to Cassandra but that has a different plot.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182384#Comment_119182384

PS. Boards bouncing the screen halfway up the page while I’m trying to post something is ridiculous. Every 20-15 seconds it happens.

 I know tell me about it.

It's as annoying as hell.

You just want to post or read other posts and it trust to put you were you left of stupid thing so annoying. I really hope they sort it. I think they think it is helpful but it really is not.

pah

Strong episode IMO More great Star Trek 🙂

My only gripe would be if the father was that set on protecting his son at all costs then telling Pike the truth earlier would surely have been the way to go?

GSPfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186593#Comment_119186593

Yep. I suppose so. But it also may have ended in The Federation ordering Pike to not interfere.

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186688#Comment_119186688

He would have been entitled to seek asylum I would imagine.

corkie

Plot/Script has been compared to the short story

"The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" by Ursula Le Guin

The Classic Sci-Fi Short Story You Should Read After This Week's Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

https://www.slashfilm.com/890618/the-classic-sci-fi-short-story-you-should-read-after-this-weeks-star-trek-strange-new-worlds/?utm_campaign=clip

.......have also pointed out that a similar idea is communicated in Fyodor Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov," meaning the concept explored in this week's "Trek" episode goes back at least until 1880.

This is a new script based upon an unused TOS script by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry.

Even IMDb links to it.

So who knows where Gene got the plot from?

An Ursula K. Le Guin Short Story Inspired The Big Mystery For ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 3

Strange that they didn't give credit to the story for this episode?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186593#Comment_119186593

Pike is literally in bed with the enemy though so the father probably assumed Pike would sell him out.

PhiloCypher

I'm surprised this episode hasn't resulted in more discussion but it it can be an exercise in frustration posting here since the revamp so I guess it's understandable.

As to the episode, it wasn't quite the home run in terms of execution that the previous 5 had been but it made up for it by being so thematically rich. Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or in this case a boy. The way it shines an uncomfortable light on the cultural inertia we see in our own society that see us just accept the suffering of a child working in a sweatshop as a price worth paying for cheap clothes or indeed dying in an elementary school shooting because to quote Alora "our founders set it up this way" and a few dead kids are a price we're willing to pay to keep our guns/the status quo.

The performances were top notch as usual, Anson Mount in particular running the gamut of emotions from excitment, at a romance Rekindled , hope, that the Majellans medicine could heal him should his fate come to pass , to horror finding out the horrible price the majallans are willing to pay for their utopian society and the part he played in the boys ultimate fate.

The faults I find is that due to the narrative choice of basically having us discover the dark secret of the Majellans at the same time as Pike we don't really get to see much of this utopian society, or have it explained to us like you would in TNG. In that show a majallan would have waxed lyrical about their society, their secret would have been discovered much earlier and their would have been more in depth debate and quoting of the prime directive by Picard and Co. In this its all kept secret till the final reel. You have to accept a lot for the allegory to work.

Overall tho 8/10

Sidenote. Wtf was with the corridor full of random boxes that the kid was hidden in. Do they not have cargo bays on this Enterprise?

~Rebel~

Only just got around to watching this now - love Ursula Le Guin, been my favorite author for 20 years, so quite happy to see a direct tribute to her here.

And another sign that there are some real sci fi fans on board the writing staff - that’s tributes to The Day the Earth Stood Still, Silent Running, and Le Guin now so far.

somuj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190515#Comment_119190515

Was wondering that too. Seems a bit ridiculous.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190515#Comment_119190515

I think a huge part of the storytelling was keeping it to be a more faithful adaptation of Le Guin’s own story - where the nature of the paradise is irrelevant, and it’s left up to you to imagine your own version of that paradise. Whatever you imagine to be the perfect society, that’s what this place was. Was clever to use the element of ‘free from all illness’ as a way to further two other storylines too.

id have liked a greater emphasis on those who walked away though, and seeing it as a more continuous thing, or a thing that happens around each ‘ascension’. Like seeing a little scattering of ships leave the planet to go to Prospect 7, and then learning why at the same time as Pike is learning from the woman.

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180804#Comment_119180804

That was definitely the biggest flaw of the episode - the fact that as a viewer you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop with the reveal of the sinister nature of the 'ascension'. I would have preferred if Pike had pushed back a little with a rebuttal to Alora's statement about children suffering in the Federation. There may well be children in pain or suffering within the Federation but unlike the Majellans they don't base their *entire society* around exploiting children.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210009#Comment_119210009

Yes me too. I was very dissapointed when he did not.

pixelburp

I think folks are being a tad unfair on Pike; how I read the scene was him being deeply disappointed and resigned to find himself having made a fatal error. His affection / horniness for Alora and eagerness to curry favour cost the child his life; literally delivering him to his doom.

And as Alora pointed out, he had no jurisdiction there, so what value was there in a "well, actually, we're great you suck" speech? It wasn't going to bring the kid back, wouldn't change anything - all he could do was leave. Maybe Picard would have got all high and mighty, but this was a wounded Captain retuning to his ship to think on things.

I thought this was a fine episode; definitely the least "fun" of the batch, and maybe not built off some grand, weighty concept, but still had a decent mystery that unraveled at an entertaining pace. And all this chatter of how obvious the twist was makes me feel dumb; I didn't see it coming. I knew something was up, but didn't twig the sacrafice angle.

I'd call this was solid, mid-season filler; I'm not sure I'd jump back to watch this quicker than, say, the previous episode but this was good Planet or the Weird Thing.

Edit: and damn the character work was on point, again. Plot heavy episode yet there was still room for character moments. Even the doctor's sick daughter wasn't played for half the melodrama it could have been.

I was expecting him to badger and berate the aliens for help - nope. He just stayed focused, spoke carefully but still with passion and desperation.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180804#Comment_119180804

The boys fate wasn't apparent to me! Well not from the start.

I was intrigued by the mention of Poverty in the federation. I thought they had eliminated it?

The red haired lady referenced it when she said people in the federation looked away from child poverty so how could they condemn their actions?

I can't recall the characters name. Pike's love interest.

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217337#Comment_119217337

Yes at the end of the day the kid is still sacrificed to the machine. But the problem was by Pike not rebutting Alora's accusation about the Federation he's essentially conceding the point that there's no difference between the two societies and even worse that somehow the Majallans are more "honest" about their way of life. I couldn't see Kirk or Picard accepting Alora's sanctimonious depiction of the 'ascension'.