Separating strong and weaker kids at games

swazyboy

My 8 year old son plays football with his local gaa club. The coaches segregate the players into stronger and weaker groups in training and matches. Their justification is that the weaker kids don't get as much ball time with the stronger lads and would have more time on the ball with lads on their own level of ability. This make sense but in recent games they split the teams but the weaker lads are mixed in with under age lads from the same club but from a different team. To me it feels like his team are moving on and the weaker lads are getting left behind with a younger age level.

I'm behind the coaches but my son has started asking questions like "where are the other lads" from his team and "why are we playing with the younger lads".

Is GAA about developing youngsters into players or just having the best team?

kirk.

A and B teams and players interchangeable in between A and B as they improve or worsen

That's usually the format I see at underage

Deskjockey

They should just be playing with their friends at that age.

MrMusician18

Sad to see the same **** is still happening decades since I was that age. For many coaches, yes, GAA is about having the best team above all else and that includes teaching and developing young players.

The likely result is that the weaker players will just drift away from the sport, moving to something else where they are actually encouraged rather than sidelined. If any of those 8 y/o that have been moved to the weaker group are still playing by the time they are U14 I'd be surprised.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151927#Comment_119151927

You seem to be having a general rant at the gaa

Players have to be split into groups because of numbers and abilities

But ya when there's a trophy on the line the subs won't get game time , that happens

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151936#Comment_119151936

I'm not having a rant thanks. Streaming for ability at that age is a bad idea because those already behind will fall further and further behind. By the time the sport becomes competitive you'll have lost all these players probably for good. Sport shouldn't competitive at u8 or u10 level. It should be about developing skills, but primarily fun and play.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151936#Comment_119151936

Just need to ensure the weak lads hang around for as long as possible to pay the membership and contribute to all the fundraisers.. Those trophies don't come cheap these days

Treppen

From having a few young kids in it (and in the mid group of 3 streams) I think it's the only way. If it were all mixed ability the weaker kids without the same skills would be sidelined pretty quick , while the stronger kids would just be running rings around the others thinking they were the beez knees.

I literally watch 3 different streams every training every week. My own lads have come on immensely thanks to the coaches and the really good lads have to rocketed ahead far more than if they were mixed. It started out at 6 yrs old and everyone was piled together.

They all know they're streamed and know if they want on the good team they have to work. If they want to chill then there's a place for them too.

But coaches and parents are key. The coaches of the 3 streams mix around every week and give each group the same encouragement and advice to become better and have fun.

Maybe it's because our club is relatively big, if it's a smaller club then maybe theres a different dynamic.

...and just to throw another spanner in the works... I believe in streaming... But think boys and girls should play together.

Tombo2001

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Leroy42

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Uncle Pierre

Am guessing that anyone who says streaming shouldn't happen isn't actually involved in coaching themselves.

Am with my own club's U9 group. We have 35 to 40 regulars, and they're split in three streams of 12 to 14 each. We do 60 to 70% hurling, and the rest football.

In hurling, the A stream lads are capable of picking up the ball on the run, soloing, and sticking it over the bar from 25 yards out or further. They've no fear of getting stuck into one another when competing for the ball either. Most if not all have been coming to the club since joining the Nursery at three or four years of age, so they've already got four or five years of good coaching behind them. Some are sons of current or recent senior hurlers, so they've been getting good practice at home since they could walk too!

At the other end, we have a group including lads who joined just this year or late last year, and others from non-traditional GAA backgrounds (i.e. we have boys from Polish, Hungarian, Italian, and French families). All still need work on their ground stroke, particularly off their "weaker" side (although we don't say "weaker" in training - we just say "other side" or left side/right side). All need several attempts to pick up a ball (either roll lift or jab lift). Striking from the hand is beyond them at this stage, and one or two need reminding at every training session on how to even hold a hurl. Most if not all are nervous of tackles, and have a fear of maybe being struck by a hurl if they get in close to somebody else.

You simply can't mix them together all the time. The C stream needs to do different drills because they're at a different stage of their hurling development. The A stream would be bored by those drills, and need something more challenging. And in mini games at the end of training, the A stream lads would run rings around the others, and the C stream would hardly get a tap at the ball.

Nobody is stigmatised as being "just a B" or "only a C" for the whole year. Lads are moved up a grade when they're ready for it. Nobody is ever moved down, because that would be too demoralising.

Finally, it's not the case that the "best" coaches are with A, and the "worst" with C. We rotate regularly between them, so that every coach spends time with every player. And one of the best things in coaching is when you help to develop a lad enough for him to be promoted to a higher grade. We've a Chinese boy who held a hurl for the first time and started right from scratch in the pitch three years ago, but he's so interested and enthusiastic that he's now one of our top three or four players.

Hopefully this is enough to show that streaming works well when done well. But obviously, I can only speak for my own club. If some other club uses it as an excuse to fob "the bad lads" off to the far end of the field, with any oul' eejit to look after them, then obviously that's not what it's about, and it wouldn't work so well there.

Killed

I'm coaching a few years and I've come to the realisation that as a club coach has the kids for only an hour or so a week it's nigh on impossible to bring them to a level up if they don't practice themselves.

I've very rarely seen a weaker player improve much over the years as frankly they don't practice at home. I think that's the key and that's why coaches with limited coaching time tend to concentrate on the better players.

whippet

I'm of the opposite opinion.

I have 30 kids of all different abilities and we do have them separated in to two squads. The format for the split was simple - kept the friends together and those who were in the same school.

So you have all abilities on both squads. Plenty of blitzs and game time for everyone. Thankfully the stronger players accept that some are not as good as them and don't go around bitching and moaning when they make mistakes etc.

What has fostered is a really great group of young 10 year old lads who work together and enjoy their training sessions / matches. I know that in a couple of years a few of these lads will disappear out of the group but the stronger more interested ones will stay on and form the basis of a strong team with a really strong bond.

The stronger lads don't get stronger by the hour or two a week at training - they develop their skills practicing what they learned day in day out in the back garden or in the field with their mates after school.

U10 football isn't about winning, isn't about being the best - it's about learning to be part of a team, be physically active and developing the life time love of a sport.

ebbsy

It is up to the coaches to get all the players up to speed.

For example if the lads are doing soloing drills, what we would do is watch them all do it.

The strugglers would then do extra ones, with a bit of friendly coaching.

Dumping kids to a different group is just lazy, and it does not improve them.

There are plenty of other sports out there to choose from.....

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153254#Comment_119153254

It definitely is not up to the coaches as in an hour a week you can only do so much. From my experience the ones who improve the most are the ones who practice at home. We have a few with us who after 2/3 years you would think never seen a ball before as they cannot even get the basics right while others are flying.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153254#Comment_119153254

You're actually not as far off our approach as you might think.

Take soloing, for example (either hurling or football). We've watched everybody do it, and we know who's good at it and who's not so good. The better ones will do one type of drill - soloing around obstacles, or with somebody challenging them for the ball. Others will do a drill where it's simply about learning to balance the ball (hurling) or toe-tap it to themselves (football). We don't need to first watch them all together at every session to know who's more suitable to which drill.

And if allocating some of them to a different and simpler drill is just "dumping them off", as you suggest, then is your way of having them stay to do extra ones - instead of moving on to something else - not just a form of "dumping them off" too?

Either way, I very much beg to differ that putting kids in a different group doesn't help to improve them. Just this week, we moved two boys up from Stream C to Stream B. When we started back in March, both were struggling to do even a ground stroke from one side. Now they're pulling confidently and well from both sides, and are generally able to pick up the ball at first attempt too. That's all because they got more coaching on those basics than they would have done if everybody was just all mixed in together all the time.

And finally, while I agree it's up to coaches to help get players up to speed, remember the coaches generally only have the players for two or maybe three hours per week. It's the ones who are encouraged at home and practice outside of club training sessions who will develop quicker. Parents have a massive role to play in that regard too.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151951#Comment_119151951

Overlooked this one earlier. You're right, wrong, and somewhere in between, all in the space of a few sentences.

"Streaming for ability at that age is a bad idea because those already behind will fall further and further behind" - wrong, and I've already demonstrated how streaming will help bring players on if it's done well.

"By the time the sport becomes competitive you'll have lost all these players probably for good" - in between, and will come back to this one.

"Sport shouldn't competitive at u8 or u10 level. It should be about developing skills, but primarily fun and play." - 100% right, and by streaming, you can make sure everybody gets the appropriate level of coaching on the most important skills for the level they're currently at, and have fun while they're doing it. That's far better than some becoming disillusioned because things are too hard, and others growing bored because they're too easy. There's no "one size fits all" for a group of 30 to 40 kids in any activity or setting.

Also, I'm guessing you might be unaware that it's actually a rule of the GAA that it doesn't become competitive until U12 at the earliest? All the way up to U11, it's "Go Games", where everybody gets to play and there are no trophies or titles at stake. Maybe have a read of https://www.gaa.ie/my-gaa/getting-involved/go-games

And now back to the middle one - yes, an unfortunate truth is that some kids will drop away between the ages of about 8 and about 12 or 13. Also that they'll probably mostly be the ones from a Stream C, because they're generally the ones who are not interested in it enough anyway to practice at home in between training sessions. But coaches can't force kids to develop an interest or practice at home. And it's the same in all sorts of other activities too. Any music or Irish dancing teacher will tell you they've got far more 8-year-olds than 12-year-olds. My local rugby and soccer clubs have got far more 8-year-olds than 12-year-olds too.

I've a nephew who's 14. When he was 8, he did GAA, soccer, swimming, gymnastics, and music lessons. Now he just does soccer and swimming. It's not because his GAA club (a different one to mine, by the way), his gymnastics club or his music teacher did anything wrong - he just hadn't the interest to keep them going when he got older.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153254#Comment_119153254

This I have an issue with.

A lot of parents treat the coaches as if they are paid employees rather than actually other parents that give up their time to mentor 'your' kids.

Its not up to the coaches to get all players up to speed - as mentioned earlier, if one kid is pucking around with their mum or dad after school every day, and another kid whose parents wouldnt know a sliotar from a tennis ball, and doesnt hit the ball once between training sessions - there is no coach in the world can remedy that.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153025#Comment_119153025

Devils advocate - in your group, what % of mentor kids are in strongest, in middle and weakest groups

Tombo2001

The major problems with streaming, especially at young age, are as follows (in my experience, and I see this in many clubs):

(i) If you have a group of say 50 players, and you divide them into A and B and C - yes you have 6 or 7 players at the top end who are brilliant with 8-yr olds who can do a Joe Canning sideline over the bar, and then you've got the 6 or 7 at the bottom that really have zero interest and are waiting for the day that their parents dont make them go any more.

In the middle you've got a big group of about 35 players where there really isnt much between them at all BUT some of these find themselves in the A team and some of these find themselves in C team.

What happens then is that players get pigeonholed and are viewed as C players or A players. And of course there is a bit of movement, but ultimately the good C player now needs to be be much better than the B players just to get a move up, even though he/she was never any worse than them in the first place.

There is never as much movement as there should be because as someone mentioned above it would be 'too distressing' to move players down.

(ii) At this point you are saying to an 8 year old - you are a C player. This follows through to the schoolyard where its now - what team are you in. I'm in the C team. They can actually get teased about it if things go wrong. Its just a complete pisstake to put 8 years olds through this. Particularly those that cant understand why someone they are as good as are on the B team or A team.

And there is always some bull about - we dont call them A B and C, we call them the Blues and the Reds and Greens.....but kids can work that out in 3 seconds.

(iii) the mentors mostly have kids on the A or B teams. So they dont see these problems. They only see all the benefits to their own kids of having them in with other strong players.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154031#Comment_119154031

A fair question, and one I was going to address in my earlier post, except I thought it was long enough already!

We have six coaches. Three of them are Dads with sons involved, and three have no direct connection with any of the boys.

Of the Dads and lads - one of them is exceptional and I fully expect him to play senior inter-county one day. He's absolutely obsessed with hurling, and plays every spare minute he has.

My own lad was Stream B last year but moved up to A this year, partly due to being in a different crop this year and now being "up to the age", but also largely due to plenty of practice over the winter.

The other Dad's lad is a C, and to be honest, isn't particularly interested in it at all. The Dad finds it hard to get him to practice at home, and as stated previously, he can't force him to.

Remember we all rotate between the groups. It's not the case that two of us only ever coach Stream A, where our own lads are.

By the way, surely if you have a group of 50, you'd be looking to have more than three groups? I'd be thinking at least five, even if they were A, three B's, and a C. If you're a big enough club to have 50 kids coming at that age, you should be big enough to have enough adults coaching too, to allow that to happen.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154480#Comment_119154480

The thing on a group of 50 was just for illustration purposes - in other words about 15% of the kids stand out as being strong, 15% stand out as being weak and 70% are somewhere in the middle.

However, the streaming means that there is a line drawn down the middle. Or a third a third a third.

50 kids would not cover you for three teams at u14; its four groups at u9.

To be honest the way it should be done in my view is that teams are streamed for match day - but that only the very strong and very weak are streamed for training purposes. And that that group in the middle is fluid on match day, can be C one day and A the next day.

Going back to that group of 50 - the 35 in the middle should not be streamed as there is a much of a muchness between them.

With the rigid streaming piece, the player that really loses out is the good C player - because they are stuck in with a bunch who dont care, who mess, who stand back and avoid the ball. And with a mentor whose child is over on the A team, and is looking over every five minutes to see how the A game is going. (Not always like this, but frequently like this).

Here's a thing - Ballyboden are one of the strongest clubs in Dublin at all juvenile ages, and they stream later than anyone else and later than the county board advises. Not saying its linked, but Jim Gavin is an underage mentor there.

PARlance

Very interesting discussion and something I'm starting out in with my kids. We've about 40 U9's. They split them into U8's and U9's for training and matches and don't stream other than that. Teams are evenly picked etc. for matches.

Himself and a few of the stronger 8's were fairly disappointed when they found out that they wouldn't be training with the older lads. They had been training throughout the winter with them (club decided to do Friday night sessions on astro for anyone interested, so the numbers weren't as great).

There has been some good improvement in a few of the lads in the U8 group who may have been seen as weaker, but I do get the sense that the stronger lads are missing out by not testing themselves against some of the U9's.

I was involved in coaching last year when the were U7 but can't with work commitments this year, and I'd never mention anything unless I was involved, but I do get the sense that they're missing a trick by not mixing the ages up a little. They're all in the same bracket at the end of the day. Even from a social sense, it's better for them to be mixing imo.

Is this the way most clubs do it, i.e keeping it year by year within the 2 year brackets?

ebbsy

Parents get too emotional about their kids. I was that parent once as well.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153436#Comment_119153436

I still think its up to the coaches to direct the kids properly. To improve them. And if we do that, we are doing our best.

ebbsy

I trained my own son for a few years.

Was it a good idea ? Probably not, looking back now.

elefant

Excellent discussion.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158309#Comment_119158309

100%.

you also right about parents getting too emotional about the kids. The biggest biggest thing is - are they enjoying it. Easy to lose sight of this. The silent sidelines thing for example is a good idea in this regard, there is still too much roaring on the sideline.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160193#Comment_119160193

True. And that includes me in the past.

KaneToad

This is not unique to GAA.

All team sports suffer from mismanagement in this regard. The pursuit of the 'win' becomes the sole focus. But it's the guaranteed way to lose a % of your players.

All players who want to train & play games should be thrown into the mix and two teams of mixed ability should be created. It's children's sports, the child should be central.

It is far better to retain a child playing the sport into adulthood than having the bragging rights of your club having the best children's team.

Why does anyone even play amateur team sports? It's for the enjoyment, the fitness, the camaraderie. Segregating children by ability decimates the participation rates and ensures the enjoyment/fitness/camaraderie is just for those who were deemed 'elite' when they were a child.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160193#Comment_119160193

Saw a really talented lad give up football completely as his dad was a lunatic on the sidelines. No need for it at all

Killed

What I have noticed is that U10 & U12 kids are competitive, they know who wins and like to be the winners. I've seen them become resentful of weaker players being played and costing them a game. The camaraderie of the team can be destroyed by playing very weak players.

The coaches are following the guidelines by playing everyone but a lot of those weaker players don't/won't practice at home or with their parents. I saw a stat recently saying that players that don't practice at home are nearly 70% more likely to give up a sport.

Former Former Former

Under 8 is too young to stream by ability.

Some of the kids are only just starting to play at that point but they're old enough to know they've put in the weaker group and that's never fun.

I coach the u8 girls at a small club, one of our neighbouring clubs is huge and they (despite published club policy) stream them. It is absolutely due to the ego of the head mentor, our mixed group came up against their A team and got annihilated, and yer man was celebrating like it was Italia 90. 7 year old girls ffs.

I see too many of these guys doing the rounds of Dublin GAA.

KaneToad

I'm not sure that we should be using the children's feeling of "resentment" towards weaker kids as a basis for segregating children's sports.

salmocab

I wonder are the strongest coaches taking the weakest kids? If they aren’t then then any platitudes about kids getting better chances with the other weak kids would ring fairly hollow.

PARlance

Was thinking about the thread while at the kids training on Saturday morning. I had previously thought that my u8 year old might have been missing out by not training with some of the u9's... He might be in one sense but probably not as much as I thought.

Think someone mentioned it earlier but at that age, the kids really do develop at different stages. Noticed a few guys who were more interested in doing cartwheels last year who had really picked up and improved and were actually interested.

Was chatting to the mother of one such kid. She was saying that her husband had started making more time to play a bit with the son and the kid's interest levels changed overnight.

We might get too caught up in good coaches / bad coaches, A teams or C teams etc... The most important thing is probably showing an interest and playing with the kids outside of the limited training sessions.

CramCycle

For those who are claiming to be coaches (I am one), segregation on strength is pretty much against all you would should have been taught at your training to be a coach, at the safeguarding you are required to do etc.

We have lads who struggle to focus on the game, the direction they are playing and others who could put the Minors to shame at U9 level. Segregation would be a terrible idea and one that thankfully neither us or any of our neighbouring clubs take part in as far as I can tell.

If your club is segregating, report them to safeguarding because it is BS at that age and anyone who thinks differently shouldn't be involved with kids in sports.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163428#Comment_119163428

Exactly, I thought I must have done a different course.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163428#Comment_119163428

Have been thinking about this thread over the weekend as well, including while out with our U9s at a hurling blitz, and I think it might the case that some of us are at odds with what we actually mean by "streaming" or how it works in practice. Now the word "segregation" has been introduced as well, and that would definitely be a step too far. It suggests a very regimented demarcation of "you're one of the good lads, come over here with us", and "you're one of the others, wasting our time and yours, go over there with the other no-hopers".

Will say at this point too that I think all this talk of "streaming" or whatever you want to call it is far more relevant in hurling than football. Am conscious that some real "football folk" might take issue with what I'll say next, but fact of the matter is that the basic skills of football are easier to learn than the basics of hurling. There's hardly one of our lads who can't yet kick a football from the hand, for instance, but there are several who can't yet strike a hurling ball from the hand.

So, you have different lads do different drills, according to their own ability. Over here, you've a group of maybe ten who are striking the ball to each other from the hand, and either catching it or blocking it with the hurl then doing a roll lift/jab lift before striking to the next lad. Over there, you've got a different group, who are being coached in how to strike the ball from the hand at all, and with no great emphasis on where it goes.

Far from being against coaching training, safeguarding, etc., it's all actually 100% in line with it - to coach each child according to their own ability, and do all you can to make sure each child enjoys it. A child in the group just learning to hit the ball will be delighted with himself if he strikes it ten yards at all, no matter where it goes. But put that child in with a group of others who can put the ball straight into the hand of somebody twice as far away, and he won't enjoy it nearly so much.

By the way, our "streaming" doesn't extend to the Go Games we play. I mentioned a blitz above. I had a group of eight players on one of our teams for that - two were lads who normally be "A" at training, three would normally be "B", and three would normally be "C". No point putting all our strongest lads together and seeing them probably hop off lads from another club, while at the same time putting an entire team from "C" together and seeing them being hopped off themselves.

Anyway, seems some have a more rigid understanding or operation of "streaming" than I do. To me, all it means is splitting your main group into some smaller groups at training, so that each child is coached at a realistic level according to what he's currently able to do. I said somewhere way back in the thread that there's no "one size fits all" for a group of 30 children in any activity or setting. To me, if you don't tailor your coaching according to the different children you have, you're actually letting them all down.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161461#Comment_119161461

For the record, what that other coach/club is doing there is exactly the wrong type of "streaming", and I'd be 100% against it myself.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153025#Comment_119153025

Brilliant post. The more the merrier. I mean in ANY sport.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160327#Comment_119160327

An absolute principal of coaching should be that you do not talk to (shout 'instructions' at) your own kids during the match. Let the other mentors do that. Its human nature, but on the sideline most people are just looking out for what their own kids do.

Its not fair on the kid.

To be honest, and reading through this thread - its notable how little guidance is given by the GAA on this basic child welfare topic.

Most mentors are not qualified or trained coaches, they get into mentoring when their own kids start, they stop mentoring when their own kids stop. The reality is that by the age of 10 most of the kids will have played way more football/hurling in their lives than the majority of mentors.

There is a fair gap between the reality of whats happening, and the perception. Thats not to denigrate coaches/ mentors - they are volunteers who are out 2 or 3 times a week making the training sessions happen, while other parents are out on a power walk or back home watching Fair City (aka 'just too busy').

Uncle Pierre

Am just taking this bit from the post above - Most mentors are not qualified or trained coaches

They're supposed to be. You're supposed to have done at least a Foundation Level coaching course, as well as the Child Safeguarding course, before getting involved with any team. If there are clubs turning a blind eye to that, I'd be advising parents to raise it with club officials first, and then at a higher level in the county if necessary.

CornerForward10286

for eg u 13 in Tipperary alot of clubs have 2 teams, a stronger team and a weaker team. one could be A and the other D. in training u could do all your drills together but in a mixed training match if u have strong and weak playing together, the strong will dominate and the weaker lads are left demoralised with very little touches of the ball

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168354#Comment_119168354

Good man.

Parents giving up their time several times a week for free to mentor and coach other peoples kids, are clearly not doing enough, for free for other peoples kids.

Parents that are getting this free service from other parents should make a complaint.

Everyone has done the child safeguarding, that non negotiable.

shaungil

I have 4 kids who all play/played GAA . I coach 2 of them in a sport that does not allow streaming until under 13. Matches are all mixed teams and despite some coaches trying to stream we direct them to governing body and say we don't do it. And in matches scores are not kept

It makes life so much easier and allows all the friends to stick together as well as make new buddies.

My favourite argument from aprents are that the child really wants to keep score and thinks we should strema s they are being held back. Well my child wants to eat junk all day and play Playstation but that doesn't mean it's right or wrong.

Undoubtedly there are pro's and con's to steaming or not but my life is made so much easier and we've definitely held on to players longer because we do not stream in this sport.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119169068#Comment_119169068

Do you mean this post the way I think you do? That you think that I, and everyone in the official GAA coaching structure, are wrong to believe that anybody involved in coaching children should at least have some fundamental grasp of the basics of actual coaching?

And that you believe instead that so long as somebody says "ah yeah, I'll help out with the under whatevers", then it's okay to let them at it, even if they haven't a bull's notion about coaching, and no inclination to actually learn?

A club couldn't think much of its youngest members if it doesn't ensure that their coaches have at least some idea of how to coach.

Deskjockey

The coaching qualification, the Garda vetting and the safeguarding course are the three items that are non negotiable you will find.

The safeguarding is only one part of the three items required to coach kids. The club I am involved with are strict on these (and its a good thing in my view) .

Tombo2001

Ok - maybe we are cross purposes - the groups I have been part of, we have all done the safeguarding & vetting

But the foundation course - no.

To broaden that out, at each age group there would be several mentors - with a lead in football and a different lead in hurling. the leads set out the drills, the rest of us implement them. The leads would have done the foundation, but the rest I dont think so.

Being honest - and looking back at your posts - I completely get how streaming can be a good thing if its done properly because the strongest kids can dominate games and the weakest kids can get left out. However the big caveat is 'if its done properly'. And maybe to your point, if all mentors from the get go have done a wide level of coursing qualifications, then the group is talking as equals and these things get done according the best practice.

My guess however is most mentor panels have a small number of dominant voices when it comes to directing how the coaching will be conducted, and lots of followers taking direction.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170814#Comment_119170814

Thanks.

I'm convinced at this stage that just as there's no "one size fits all" for how to coach a group of 30 or more children, and so you have to split them into smaller groups doing different things, that there's also no "one size fits all" for what different people here take "streaming" to mean.

Again for the record, I'd be completely opposed to splitting 8 and 9-year-olds into an A, B and C team for actual games. Matter of fact, it's so far removed from what we do ourselves that it didn't even occur to me initially that it might be what the OP or others meant. Our "streaming" doesn't extend any further than having different children do different drills during training, in recognition of their different levels of ability, and how some need extra help with the basics while others have already mastered them and can do something more challenging instead. But we mix them all together for games against other clubs, and we wouldn't have it any other way.

By the way, your club's structure is okay too, so long as the head coach over any group has at least some basic coaching training or knowledge. I just wouldn't like to think there might be a club somewhere where nobody over a younger age group has any training or knowledge of best practice, recommended drills, etc..

Anyway, don't think I've much more to say on this topic. Have said plenty already!!!

Girl Geraldine

I know sidelining the weaker players might seem harsh, but if you don't do it, your competitors will. It is the price that has to be paid if you want to win county finals.

Look at all the great hurling clubs and counties. They didn't get there by fielding weak players.