Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

maccored · 07-10-2023 12:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201868#Comment_121201868

no wonder this country is fucked

07-10-2023 07:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203863#Comment_121203863

Doubt it would be worse than how Gerry treated his poor niece.

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2023 07:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204267#Comment_121204267

How do you know the answer to that?

Does it define who FF are jh79?

Of course it doesn't, which is why you don't see me or anyone decent using the occurrence or the victims to a political end or for cheap points.

The use of selective victims again.

07-10-2023 07:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204287#Comment_121204287

The point is Francie as a SF supporter you can never take the moral high ground. No matter what FF/FG have done your lot have done far worse.

How many members of FF/FG have murdered children etc?

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2023 08:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204302#Comment_121204302

The point is jh79, is the obscene use of selective victims to score political points.

Abuse is not committed by those with a certain political ideology. It's committed by sick people.

07-10-2023 08:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204318#Comment_121204318

The cover up was to protect a certain party and its terrosist comrades.

Those who ignore abuse and hand wave it away because their favourite terrorists did it are the ones you need to take a long hard look at themselves.

07-10-2023 08:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203680#Comment_121203680

Him and Gerry Hutch could collect him. The Monk and McAuley have been great friends for years. The McAuley's were regular guests at his boxing events.

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2023 08:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204330#Comment_121204330

That is bull too.

I didn't ignore any such thing.

I have seen abuse badly handled by almost every organisation in the country.

I have seen politicians cover it up across the political spectrum.

I have seen people use selective victims to score points.

And I would never define a political party by using those victims for cheap dirty points.

That is what you are doing when you cannot score points any other way. Out will come the tired old list of victims.

I'd need a long shower if I debated that way.

07-10-2023 08:42AM

Doubt the families of the victims of SF/IRA think its a "tired old list".

Complete lack of empathy on your side. Child abuse, murder, rape, extortion all hand waved away because it was "for the cause".

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2023 08:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204413#Comment_121204413

I'm 'lacking in empathy' from from someone who selects victims to get outraged about?

Give me a break.

I'll leave you to it. Not lowering myself to that cheap emotive rubbish.

Seth Brundle · 09-10-2023 03:45PM

Mod: I have deleted a number of posts which were way below the standard expected. There will be no more of this "SF/IRA" crap. If you disagree with SF then fine but make your comment like a mature adult and not like some crap Irish Indo hack. However, I will issue imediate warnings &/or bans for people who continue with this behaviour. I will assume that you accept rule this should you continue to post in this thread.

@Francis McM if you have a problem with mod decisions then there is a formal process under which you can file a grievance (see link below). Publicly throwing out passive agressive comments because you were thread banned (in a different thread) due to deliberately ignoring a clear mod instruction will not work in your favour - you have even taken to the likes of AH to moan about the threadban. I will also remind you that I have given you abundant chances and warnings so please don't think that I have or am being hard on you. If you disagree with the rules then you are completely free to not post. However, based on the post of yours that I've just deleted, I would seriously advise that you think through any future posts you intend posting within this forum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056019884/instructions-on-how-to-dispute-a-ban-or-infraction

blanch152 · 09-10-2023 10:42PM

The Sinn Fein twisting and turning on Israel/Palestine will have an interesting effect on their ability to form a government.

Do they stick with the likes of PBP and tell the world that Jews and Israel are evil, and will that gain or cost them votes?

Do they move to the mainstream middle that is horrified by the actions of Hamas, is worried about Muslim cultural invasion, but thinks Israel is overreacting?

Awkward being all things to all people when you have to make decisions.

blanch152 · 13-10-2023 03:35PM

An article in the Newsletter outlining Sinn Fein's close ties with Hamas won't link properly and I can't post it here. Probably for the best, as the point isn't really about Sinn Fein and Hamas, birds of a feather and all that, but, more about the difficulties of Sinn Fein finding coalition partners that are in the same continent as them when it comes to foreign policy.

Sinn Fein is anti-EU, fervently anti-British, pro-Hamas, pro-Chavez, pro-Maduro, pro-Spanish separatists, recently pro-Russia etc. Apart from PBP, none of the other political parties are remotely close to Sinn Fein when it comes to this. They are way off the dial in respect of normal foreign relationships. Am I wrong in thinking this could be fatal to any coalition, not necessarily at the start, but as soon as the latest issue abroad erupts? For example, would we have been as supportive of Ukraine under a SF government? And what would that have said about us as a people, is that who we really are?

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2023 04:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233277#Comment_121233277

TBH, I think the world is sadly about to see what happens when the combined foreign policies of the West give a serial abuser of international law carte blanche to do what they want.

I think Irish people will very clearly state that is not who we are, if asked.

P.S. SF are not anti the EU nor even fervently anti British.

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2023 05:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233627#Comment_121233627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233642#Comment_121233642

This is supposed to be the Politics forum. These answers are dodgy even for After Hours.

I am fervently pro the EU and would never have voted for a party who were 'anti' it.

Contrary to the popular propaganda beloved of some they were not taking advantage of Brexit and their position had evolved long before Brexit.

SF have been saying that our place is in the EU for a long time now.

Sinn Fein’s 2009 and 2014 EP manifestos further built on the 2004 manifesto, stating that “Ireland’s place is in the European Union – but the European Union needs to change” and also to “build support in Europe for Irish reunification”

Sinn Féin in the EU: The Evolution of Self-Determination Policy Post Brexit | UNU-CRIS

And they also work with many organisations in Britain and with British political parties and people. They are 'anti British' policy in Ireland but the 'fervently anti British' stchick is more of popular propaganda beloved of many.

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2023 05:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233717#Comment_121233717

That's what any voter should be doing for themselves.. Not listening to emotive and crude party political propaganda, like they are 'anti EU'. They simply are not.

Seth Brundle · 13-10-2023 05:41PM

Mod: below standard posts deleted. No personal attacks folks, keep it friendly and up to the standards!

13-10-2023 06:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214704#Comment_121214704

@Seth Brundle Just want to put out that issuing such a mod warning in post 705 of a 24 page thread is likely to be missed. The norm would be placing it in the op and modifying the thread title. Not telling you how to do your job, just know this is flagged a number of times on the feedback forum as even referencing post #'s (in this case 705) is of no use to mobile users as they can't see or navigate to those post #'s. Tried PM'ing this but message wouldn't send. No idea if its due to ongoing site issues or something else

Seth Brundle · 13-10-2023 07:19PM

It's there merely as a reminder and to advise of deleted posts but point taken

maccored · 13-10-2023 10:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216532#Comment_121216532

remind me how they are twisting and turning? SF dont support Hamas, but they support the Palestinian struggle. It confuses me how thats twisting and turning. SF have supported the Palestinian struggle for decades as have many northern nationalists/republicans.

VinLieger · 14-10-2023 07:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233689#Comment_121233689

That's fine if they've changed their position however removing posts from their website detailing their previous positions regarding Russia and the eu is incredibly misleading and a cynical attempt at trying to change their own history. They are reportedly doing it again with the current situation.

https://twitter.com/TullMcAdoo/status/1712510849921806642?s=19

Why are they so ashamed of their own historical actions and opinions?

FrancieBrady · 14-10-2023 09:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235841#Comment_121235841

If that was an effort to deceive it was futile and naïve.

When challenged I haven't heard them reverse from their opinion on world affairs/politics.

It isn't the same as FG or FF. They have met Hamas and have not denied it.

I think Hamas have to be talked to just as the Israeli's have to be talked too and I thought talking was the only way to achieve peace here. Hume was accused of the same thing MLMD is being accused of BTW by his own party sometimes too.

VinLieger · 14-10-2023 10:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236074#Comment_121236074

I agree it is futile and naive but it speaks to them as a group trying to hide things from prospective voters which I think is cynical and hypocritical considering its what they spend their time rightly or wrongly accusing the government of doing.

FrancieBrady · 14-10-2023 10:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236225#Comment_121236225

If a voter does not inform themselves that is their issue.

The reality is Vin, political parties will change opinions, that is a fact.

I would expect SF to be no different, I think party opinion/policy will change to suit certain situations while personal opinions may differ.

That's nothing unusual although it will be portrayed as different because it's SF.

Look at the current Taoiseach's opinions in 2005 on the Israeli/Palestinian situation for instance, for proof of that.

VinLieger · 14-10-2023 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236262#Comment_121236262

I've no problem with parties changing their opinions, I fully expect them to do it and would never vote for one that didn't. I have a problem with parties trying to hide their previous positions as they think it might make them look bad as Sinn Fein seem to be trying to do for several issues. Can you think of one good reason for them to have done what they have with regards to their own blog posts and positions around Russia, the EU and now Israel and palestine? They claimed previously it was website maintenance that led to only anti EU posts being removed and to my knowledge they still haven't been re-added.

FrancieBrady · 14-10-2023 11:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236383#Comment_121236383

I said previously, if it was an attempt to hide then it was ill conceived and futile.

I think any analyst would have told them that they would lose either way if they did it. Previous positions would be used to damage them. or the action of deleting would. A no win situation. Dammed if they do, dammed if they didn't.

Not the first time they have found themselves in that unique position. FF and FG don't ship the same damage for changing opinions as anyone can see.