Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645373#Comment_122645373

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114244-pathway-to-coalition/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/martin-opens-the-door-to-coalition-with-sinn-fein/38941313.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-fail-reaction-martin-opens-door-to-government-with-fg-or-sf-1.4167246

Which probably makes great sense in your traditional deliberately myopic view. For others though it is hookum.
The fact that this guy also lied about coalition with FG is relevant.

You are dealing with a political opportunist.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645494#Comment_122645494

To be honest, you should be posting this is the History forum.

You are obsessed.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645494#Comment_122645494

One remark, misinterpreted by the media, to run a news story, is all you have that he lied!!!! This is what I asked you:

"Can you point to any actions taken by FF or FG either to open discussions with SF, to have transfer pacts with SF, to negotiate a coalition with SF, to actually enter government with SF, etc. Otherwise, your claim that they have lied about going into coalition with SF is just more madness and notions in your head."

You come out with a misquoted remark reported in the media that MM immediately refuted the next day, as the answer???? FF and FG have never considered coalition with SF, they have never had a transfer pact, they have never had discussions with SF.

Getting back on topic, I hear on the grapevine that SF are going to quietly drop the request for a border poll during the next government from their manifesto. Apparently, they will just seek that preparations begin for a border poll, which will probably be a few civil servants in an office organising more talking shops.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646540#Comment_122646540

misinterpreted by the media, 

This is more of the arrogance that allowed you set yourself up as the final word on the Apple case. You knew better than everyone else then too.

On the subject of a UI, Mary Lou just today:

https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1838135088157974543

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646561#Comment_122646561

Why would I bother myself watching a video from Twitter that a poster doesn't even tell us what is in it?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646574#Comment_122646574

Clue is in this bit:

Sky News asked me if referendums on Irish unity are on the cards.

Here’s my answer

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646669#Comment_122646669

"When posting or linking to a video please provide a summary of the content as not everybody has access to video sites or the time to view them."

I don't waste my time watching videos of MLMD.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646742#Comment_122646742

As I don't have an X account, I can't get blocked.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646735#Comment_122646735

She was asked about referendums and she answers in the video.

BTW There is no 'request' in their 2024 Manifesto for a border poll. In this video MLMD is re-iterating her request that the provisions in the GFA for one are clarified to allow planning to begin.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646782#Comment_122646782

In 2020, Sinn Fein promised in their manifesto to

"Secure a referendum, north and south, on Irish Unity."

This is the provision that I have heard is being dropped. From what you are saying, MLMD effectively confirmed that.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646880#Comment_122646880

Quite different from a 'request for a border poll'.
Securing a border poll will require the publication of a plan for what a UI will be first. Then the Irish government can 'call/request a poll'.

Something MLMD has been saying for a long time.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646782#Comment_122646782

Why are you trying to argue a point via Twitter?

Do you have any original thoughts yourself, or do you like to eat baby food soundbites and regurgitate what others tell you to?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646932#Comment_122646932

Word salad.

They're clearly dropping it. No surprise really given their most fervent nationalist former supporters were happy to fraternise with Loyalists and call SF traitors.

They seem to finally have got the memo that no one cares about a BP, in great contrast to ML on Sky News mere months ago saying the goal was a BP within the next 5 years.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647148#Comment_122647148

Might be for them lads, but even they must be realising that it's not worth tuppence to people in the South.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647024#Comment_122647024

Posting a vid of the party leader is arguing via Twitter now? At least I posted my sources, still waiting for your source that said SF were measuring for curtains and furniture in Leinster House.

The manifesto's of 2020 and the 2024 Westminster one, contain no 'requests for a BP'
Far as I am aware the party's position is planning first then a BP.

That blanch152 again subtly alters words in order to have a position is nothing new.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647126#Comment_122647126

See my post to Mark.
There never was a 'request' to drop in the first place.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647171#Comment_122647171

I was quoting their 2020 Irish general election manifesto, which clearly promised to "secure a border poll" when in government. The word on the street is that is being dropped for their general election manifesto in 2025 and replaced with the word salad. Another flip-flop.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647600#Comment_122647600

And then read on (as anyone properly researched would do) and find out how they would achieve it. At no point does it say they would ‘request a border poll’.

You altered what it does say to have something edgy to say about your ‘sources’ info. Which is as reliable as others quoting ‘sources’ in the Shinners

Give it up for Pete’s sake.

JanuarySnowstor

Does anyone else think Mary Lou is quite happy to not be in Government! A great leader but jaded and out of ideas. They need a new leader and proper policies. Their chance has most likely come and gone in the last election. Not a fan of them but the country does need a strong opposition and f hey did do that job fairly well.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647646#Comment_122647646

As an opposition, they have crashed and burned terribly over the past 12 months.

MLMD should step aside, but she wont until the Boys in West Belfast push her aside.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647148#Comment_122647148

Goal #1 of them imo is to normalise their conflict in the lore of Irish nationalism. I think this is unsaid and not acknowledged by even them but is deep seated in their psyche.

Calling for a Border Poll occasionally is because behind the scenes they have put forward a narrative that they are marching towards a UI.

The bigger picture (with the Census and polls on a UI) is not that hot but they need to in order to avoid dissent.

The thing is they basically pitched themselves to get non stop micro victories for a few decades with a couple of minor set backs in terms of electoral / Constitutional politics.

Bobby Sands elected MP

Kieran Doherty elected as a TD

Gerry Adams at Government Buildings with John Hume

Sinn Féin Visas to the U.S.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin elected and taking his seat in the Dáil

Gerry Adams and co at Downing Street

Good Friday Agreement

SF on the Executive

SF usurping the SDLP

McGuinness becoming Deputy FM

Mary Lou winning a seat in Europe

Gerry Adams winning a Dáil seat

Martin McGuinness running for President and getting a decent % (above their position at the time)

“Transition” to the double female leadership team of non combatants

MON becoming First Minister

I did not mention the 2020 election as this was unplanned. They had really wanted to get into a Coalition as a minority ticket. Of course it was a huge moment for them but it didn’t fit into the “destiny” narrative.

Mentioning a BP is likely a standing item at meetings, as they need to re-centre what the “purpose” is.

The issue with 2020 now is the expectations it created. Getting into coalition was a milestone but being the largest party and having a Taoiseach was clearly supposed to come later.

What happens if they don’t get the highest office next time out? It would be a severe blow to the narrative spun for years. There aren’t actually many micro victories left. Running Adams for President would obviously be the only one really left.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648384#Comment_122648384

All the major parties here 'want' a UI.
What the voter will have to decide is who is lip servicing the idea and who is working towards it actively.

'What happens if they don’t get the highest office next time out?'

I would assume the same thing as 2020, they'll dust themselves down like any normal political party and perform their duty as an opposition.

Anyone would think they had folded the tent and gone away. Can't see it happening to be honest.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647618#Comment_122647618

Stop with the lies.

https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2020/Giving_Workers_and_Families_a_Break_-_A_Manifesto_for_Change.pdf

At the bottom of page 12, the last bullet point says:

"Secure a referendum, north and south, on Irish Unity."

As you have acknowledged, that is nowhere to be seen in their election manifesto in the North this year, you have told me that MLMD does not reference it in her video, and I have heard that phrase will be dropped from the forthcoming manifesto. In denying that it ever existed as a promise, you are part of the propaganda machine that is quietly dropping that demand.

Because the far right have taken over the debasement of the Irish flag from the good republicans, ordinary Irish people, the decent types, are being turned off by ostentatious displays of nationalism. It is not a good, nor a popular, look.

Yes, you will get drunken young kids to sing along to the Wolfe Tones, but from listening to them, that is more of a comedy parody act for them, than any attachment to nationalism.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648567#Comment_122648567

MLMD was clear in the video, a Border Poll after a process of Planning and dialogue.
They (SF) are calling for the mechanisms within the GFA to be enacted 26 years after it was signed and agreed. That includes setting a date for a referendum AFTER a planning process.
Did you miss this bit?

The future is not about a single step-change in which we go to bed one night in a partitioned Ireland and the next morning wake up in a united Ireland. It’s all about process. A process of discussion.

A process of persuasion. A process of change. A process of transition. A process of transformation. A process of reconciliation.

It’s about agreeing how we will organise our society. It’s about how we share our future. It’s about all of us having our say and playing our part in this.

The Irish Government has a duty and a constitutional obligation to make preparations for Unity. To examine the economic arguments. The cultural and social dimensions. The political dynamics. To take account of the significant shifts in population and identity demographics in the North in recent decades.

To open this process up and in consultation with and through a process of inclusive dialogue, to persuade those – unionists, nationalists and others – who have reservations about unity - that Irish unity makes sense for them, for their families and for the future.

There is a 'process' outlined which will (in their opinion, you are free to disagree or not) lead to a Border Poll and secure a referendum, north and south.

From the 2024 Westminster manifesto that you clearly have not read and obviously your 'source' hasn't read either. Credible sources? I think not.

The discussion on constitutional change is everywhere. Partition has failed us all.

The Good Friday Agreement provides a peaceful and democratic pathway through a referendum process to achieve a new Ireland within the EU.

Constitutional change requires an Irish government to prepare for the future in a strategic and responsible fashion.This includes establishing a Citizen’s Assembly which creates an opportunity for people to engage in a dialogue addressing all the practical and positive possibilities that constitutional change can bring.

We need a process that facilitates generous engagement with those from all our communities on this island.

There is now a real opportunity to shape a more prosperous future in a stronger, better and fairer country.An opportunity to create an efficient all-Ireland national health service, a sustainable housing system, affordable childcare, and a fair and just transition to a carbon neutral economy.

Resumption of full EU membership as a consequence of unity would hugely benefit the all-island economy.Unity is central to building a modern, inclusive, accountable and fairer society and a country which can play its full part in the world.The Irish and British governments must set a date for a referendum on Irish unity.

Now is the time to plan for the future.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648651#Comment_122648651

The clear and unequivocal promise to secure a border poll has been dropped and been replaced with word salad, pretty much that's what you are saying.

That's a fact.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648660#Comment_122648660

😁😁

'Word salad' - just another way of saying 'I'm out of steam, here. Must research better and get better sources'.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648651#Comment_122648651

complete waste of energy chatting to these lads. They'll be delighted with more FFG so I think that says it all really.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648418#Comment_122648418

”Dust themselves down“

SF acted in the aftermath that Mary Lou had been elected Taoiseach and it was akin to 1918.

Do not claim that the expectations that built up will not have an impact.

Previous setbacks for SF - Gerry Adams losing his seat or not being invited to the White House in the 2000s came on the back of violence.

There would be no excuse here.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648779#Comment_122648779

What?

They have gotten on with the business and duties of an opposition party. Same as any normal political party does.

As I said earlier, anyone reading the hubris and frankly, childish overexcitement across this site for the last few months would think the opposition had gone away and we are looking at FF and FG in perpetuity.
The facts are that the combined share of those two parties is in decline and they have been forced into first, a C&S arrangement and now into a coalition. Neither is able to stand on it's own feet.
SF will be fine and as said, dust themselves down and get on with it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648731#Comment_122648731

Lose the argument, and insult the poster, the last refuge of the defeated.

The clear and unequivocal promise to secure a border poll, north and south, has been quietly dropped. I hear it is out from the new manifesto down here, let's see if I am right. Even if it stays, there will be further dilution. In ten, fifteen years time, SF will sound like the rest, with a minor commitment to a shared island.