Why do the service industry get so many breaks

veryangryman

VAT reduction in spite of raising prices every chance they get. Never passing a cut onto the customer but when it was put back to 13.5 percent they run to raise prices.

The entitlement culture for tips regardless of service quality. Don't get me started on service charges. No tips for retail workers on same or lower wages.

Why do we give these such digouts. The customer gets ripped off and the management pay their staff peanuts.

If its a case that they cant get good staff, I think we should seriously look at automating their work (I'm thinking automatic drinks dispensers, chef programs etc)

MarkR

Name checks out.

Fallout2022

They smoke. For the sole reason of getting extra breaks during the day. Tactical ploy.

Potential-Monke

Something something required for the economy something something. I agree though, they do get a lot of digouts and pay staff the minimum they can get away with. Mostly with the owner then rocking up in a fancy new or new-ish designer car.

Also, there are plenty of waiting staff out there who don't expect tips, but do appreciate them because of aforementioned crap wages. However, I wouldn't expect a tip for normal service.

ericfartman

The margins are thin, they can't afford to pay more than minimum wage and that's the truth.

Some of the places that are constantly busy will pay an extra two euro an hour to keep good waiters but that's it really.

hayse

You need to Joe op.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119114936#Comment_119114936

I'd believe that if most owners (that I've experienced, most, not all) are the type to flash the cash and show how much better they are than you little waiter. I do take pleasure in seeing those people fail. Not ashamed to admit it. Love seeing people who deserve it get what's coming to them. Pity about the other people it affects though.

pgj2015

A local hotel just sold for a few million, reason being, it was a gold mine, even though it wasnt the busiest hotel in the town, was told this by an employee who works there. Hotel staff are treated really poorly from my experience, like slaves really, the hotel owners are making a fortune, look at the prices they are charging now.

Was told lately by a hotel worker who worked in a posh castle hotel, where the staff have houses on the grounds, they pay rent for this accommodation but aren't allowed have friends over. This guy had a girlfriend over and the sad act of a manager he has, young guy, knocked on his door, I believe you have someone here, can I check? He walks in and checks the house, then asks to check the workers bedroom, checks the room and opens the wardrobe, finds the workers girlfriend hiding in the wardrobe.

why would anyone want to work in such an industry?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115620#Comment_119115620

Which part of “no stay overs” in staff accommodation did the guy not understand?

veryangryman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115620#Comment_119115620

If the job was automated, none of these petty issues would happen. They're already doing it in Japan.

And for those who think the employee is out of a job, I'm quite sure they want a better job anyway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115647#Comment_119115647

But it’s no fun being rude to a machine.

Wanderer78

our economy has been gradually moving towards service industries, and away from traditional industries such as manufacturing, employment is a critical metric for measuring the wellness of an economy, hence incentives and state supports towards the service industries, i.e. to maintain high levels of employment. the owners of service industries also tend to be the primary owners of assets, and the value of assets such as property, also play a critical role in the reflection of the wellness of an economy, by maintaining high value of assets such as property, its perceived that an economy is doing well. but this ignores the potential negatives, i.e. it ignores the quality of jobs created, pay and conditions of these jobs etc, and those that simply cannot gain access to the ownership of assets such as property etc

Strumms

In 2017 the services sector employed 774,752 people..

The services sector in the same year turned over €217.6 billion euros.

the biggest employer in the state.

A lot of politicians through family in the main have connections and interests in that sector.

Tombo2001

well very angry man - why dont you get into that business yourself if its such a cushy number

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115638#Comment_119115638

Stupid rule, why should employees be treated like a kid in a boarding school?

Because you need to give the fella a better cup of coffee on his break. Cut out that cheap ersatz coffee jar, buy a bewleys jar and buy a few nice biscuits, not only the marietta's or the €1 packs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115997#Comment_119115997

Presumably there is nothing forcing them to stay in the accommodation provided by the hotel for staff, if they want to do whatever they want, rent private accommodation. But staff accommodation tends to be for staff only. So their house, their rules, if you don’t like it, you don’t have to stay there.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115647#Comment_119115647

If my Aunty had bOLLOCKs she would be my uncle.

we dont live un Japan so it has nothing to do with the service industry in Ireland.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116040#Comment_119116040

If you are paying rent, you should be allowed have a guest over, staff are very hard to get in all sectors at the moment, treating them like children isn't a great way to hold on to them. Im sure its illegal to check an employees bedroom and their wardrobe unless you are the police. This guy left for a different job not surprisingly.

Bad for business as well, I for one wouldn't be giving any such business my money.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116073#Comment_119116073

An employer providing free, or at least low cost accommodation to employees would appeal to a lot of people I suspect.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116866#Comment_119116866

So just because rent is high in Ireland, employees should just put up with unreasonable requests from their employers?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117196#Comment_119117196

Having staff quarters for staff only is not unreasonable.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117207#Comment_119117207

Its very paternalistic. The Company Store.

It would want to be very cheap for that loss of personal autonomy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117244#Comment_119117244

Don't stay there if you want autonomy.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117207#Comment_119117207

its a ridiculous rule. why are they just for staff? what big deal would it be to allow you have a friend or 2 over? a girlfriend or boyfriend?

Do you think its ok for a manager to check your bedroom or wardrobe to see if you have a guest there?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117262#Comment_119117262

Which part of “staff only” do you not understand?

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117267#Comment_119117267

which part of unreasonable and treating rent paying staff like children do you not understand?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117295#Comment_119117295

Don’t stay there if you don’t like the rules.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117295#Comment_119117295

Were they paying rent though? Rent would imply a tenancy of some sort.

Or was "room and board" included as part of their employment package?

While its unreasonable to check someones room, staff accommodation is meant for staff. I'm thinking in terms of other "live-in" type situations, like au-pairs, or boarding school staff.

Not unreasonable to have a "no guests" rule there.

Years ago, my mother worked in a hospital that had Nurses Accommodation attached. The nurses living there were not allowed have guests either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117537#Comment_119117537

There are quite a few of these types of arrangements popping up in Dublin now where hotels rent properties for staff use. It is not a tenancy, it is allotted accommodation for use by staff. The Intercontinental hotel say their staff pay approx 30% normal cost of renting. Google and other MNCs have been doing it for some time. It is not a residential tenancy agreement because the company is renting it from the owner and offering it to staff under their t&cs rather than a tenancy governed by tenancy legislation, eg, when employment ends they must vacate. Having a staff only rule in a staff house owned by/on the grounds of hotel is not unreasonable.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117537#Comment_119117537

They are paying rent, maybe its a small rent but it is rent all the same.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117581#Comment_119117581

Yes, thats along the lines of what I was thinking of. Cost of accommodation is probably deducted at source, as well.

Employers don't become their employees landlords. Can you imagine that before the RTB if someone was sacked and asked to leave?

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117581#Comment_119117581

And do Google have a sex ban as well? Of course not.

You seem to think the employer can do what they want. That in itself is very debatable. But you are missing the even bigger question regarding "can they vs should they". You need to ask yourself - what sort of sick, twisted, horrible, vile cnut would implement such a rule.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187922#Comment_119187922

What type of employer reserves staff quarters for staff only? The responsible type I would have thought.

I doubt the staff are forced to stay there against their will.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187986#Comment_119187986

Way to go on answering my questions!

Let me show you how by answering yours...

Firstly, it has nothing to do with "responsibility". I'm not sure how you would even think that.

In the case of Google and other good employers, it is simply a perk to attract staff. They offer very high wages and other attractive benefits, but still struggle to attract talent because Dublin has such an horrific reputation for accommodation. So these employers tend to offer new/temp staff accommodation (often for just the first few months etc), so the new/temp employee doesn't have to face the crisis of accommodation hunting while starting a new job.

On the other end of the scale, you have employers like the hotel mentioned in this thread. Here, the employer knows that the really low wages they pay make it very difficult for the employee to find accommodation. Add in the fact that most employees will be foreign and not have family homes or "an aunt they can stay with" nearby, and it can be essential for attracting staff. But, more importantly, it is essential for retaining staff. As not only their employer, but also their landlord, the business owner holds massive power over the employee, making it difficult for the employee to leave. Unfortunately, as is so often the case with power, it can be easily abused, as it is in this case, where the employer is enforcing a fcuked up, evil rule that demonstrates how they don't even consider their employee as a human with basic needs.

Why have you such an issue with this? Work staff rooms are for staff only, people leave their clothes/personal items in there. They usually have keypads on them which only the staff know the code of. This is for their safety, the public don’t go in there. This is staff quarters on the grounds of the hotel/employer, accommodation for staff only, why is this hard for you to understand? If the staff don’t like the arrangement, no one forces them to stay there.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188142#Comment_119188142

Are you really comparing a staff break room to a person's home???

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188549#Comment_119188549

I’m comparing “staff only” areas in an effort to explain why the public is excluded, and why employers/other staff would expect only staff to be admitted.

Before I respond to any more of your posts, could I ask, do you understand what “staff only” means when you see it written on a door?

dotsman

Before I respond to any more of your posts, could I ask, do you understand what “staff only” means when you see it written on a door?

Yes

Now, before I respond to any more of your posts, could I ask, do you understand how a staff break room is very different to a person's home?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188694#Comment_119188694

Of course I understand the difference, the question is though, do you understand what “staff only” means when applied to both? I’m really struggling to see, outside of a learning disability, why it is so difficult for you to comprehend that if a condition of staying in staff quarters is adherence to the “staff only” policy, that you think anyone other than staff are permitted to be there.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187986#Comment_119187986

Ones who don't want their staff quarters used as a brothel is the short answer.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188750#Comment_119188750

For good or ill that's quite conservative.

I had a colleague who was renting a room in Dublin from a Muslim married couple and they would not let him bring a girl back to the house.

Since I doubt these hoteliers frown on sex outside marriage (I could be wrong) I have to conclude that they simply see these staff quarters as different from a normal tenancy and see it is as their right to exercise a greater level of control over the property than a normal landlord.

That's fine but it ought to a sticking point in negotiations. For every disadvantage a tenant has they should insist on a discount to make up for it.

mazdamiatamx5

This is just the usual generic "someone else gets something I don't get" right wing crybaby whinge thread.

The legislation in our country is clear. Employees are legally entitled to breaks. There is no differential between employees in the services industry or those in other industries.

If people experience their employer breaching the law, then their grievance is with their employer or union rep. It is not with those working in other sectors who are getting their legally mandated breaks.

If entrepreneurs chose to work more hours than employees in order to build up a business, then that is their free choice. We live in a society of choices.

If you don't agree with the legal framework in my country, then you can emigrate to a country with a more lax regime (If you're of that view, I recommend Dubai, they have no labour protection legislation whatsoever. I think Sudan is similar. Dubai has a nicer lifestyle, if you're lucky enough to be from a white European background (if you're low caste Indian, you're screwed), but its buildings are even uglier than Sudan.) or alternatively lobby your TD to change the law.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188707#Comment_119188707

What sort of home has a "staff only" policy on it? What sort of landlord would want to implement such a ridiculous rule? Why should we tolerate this? You still haven't explained why a landlord should impose this rule.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189078#Comment_119189078

Liability.

The staff aren't choosing their own housemates. The employer is doing at least some vetting of other staff. But they cannot vet guests.

If a staff member gets raped, in the provided staff housing, by a random who another staff member brought into the house, then some people (especially parents of the assaulted staff member) would see the employer as responsible: they should have provided safe housing.

Yes, it happens. Especially among groups of young transient workers who need staff housing.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189272#Comment_119189272

Is there any difference between this and a standard house share? Why is a landlord not liable in that scenario? Has there ever been a case that an employer-provided housing has resulted in the employer being held liable for the scenario you described?

I would seriously doubt it. As bad as our compo culture is, there would be a serious breakdown in common sense if the employer was held liable.

And exactly what vetting is the employer doing to ensure that a staff member won't rape their housemate?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189627#Comment_119189627

Yes, this is accommodation provided by an employer to employees only, it is a condition of occupation that you are an employee, the other is a tenancy covered by tenancy legislation, the tenants have exclusive use of the property. Was this not clear from the start?

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189768#Comment_119189768

<facepalm/>

Yes, that was clear. Yet has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Please try again.

veryangryman

Why do ye have to yoyo the arguments in a peaceful way so much? Just fight to the death and there'l be one less irritant