Legal situation with traffic lights at on-path cycle lanes.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101349#Comment_119101349

How i interpet the sign is i think the yield sign means that bicycles must not interfere with walkers if they continue... i never noticed until now pedestrians on top... just my opinion based on sign and yield sign... I am surprised someone here cannot clarify absolutely...

magicbastarder

why surprised? you can google it too if you want.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101246#Comment_119101246

Absolutely correct but the conversation we were having was about traffic and bicycles/tractors slowing down traffic on a busy windy route...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101219#Comment_119101219

There is no such thinh as a shared space on a footpath... .its for walkers not cyclists... are you saying there is equal right... absolutely not...

Common sense tells you nothing... someone should ask the Council to clarify...

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101349#Comment_119101349

according to what i've pasted into the above post, taken from the DoT's trafficsigns.ie site, cyclists should yield to pedestrians in zones marked with that sign.

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097032#Comment_119097032

Similar situation inbound opposite the Gallopin Green pub, just before the traffic lights and bus stop, there is a sign which says "pedestrian priorty area" but I can guarantee that most cyclists never see it given the speed they are going at that point and the abuse they give to pedestrians who dare get in their way.

tnegun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101308#Comment_119101308

Its supposed to control bikes using the on road cycle lane but there is no reasonable way for a cyclist to trigger it so its ignored.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100685#Comment_119100685

Because the light controlling the cycle lane stays red when the main light goes green so to legally use the cycle lane you need to press the button on the pedestrian crossing! In the opposite direction its a shared space and once you avoid the traffic light in the middle of the path and blind exit from the church the cycle lane rejoins the road unless of course you want to turn right which there is absolutely no provision for.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101704#Comment_119101704

Certainly the triangle at the end of the cycle track indicates that anyone leaving the cycle track must yield to anyone on the shared track. But once you are on the shared track, there is no implication of priority or yielding. I see nothing in what you've pasted above to indicate that bikes, pedestrians or wheelchairs users must yield to anyone else when using a shared lane.

Same as the triangle at the end of a bus lane tells the bus that they must yield as they leave the bus lane, but once they have left the bus lane, they have the same priority as the other traffic in that lane.

magicbastarder

I see nothing in what you've pasted above to indicate that bikes, pedestrians or wheelchairs users must yield to anyone else when using a shared lane.

the explanatory text accompanying the sign says 'cyclists shall yield to pedestrians'.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101713#Comment_119101713

I thought the lights the cycle lanes were the as the ones for cars... it makes no sense to me...

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101689#Comment_119101689

You should always always always understand the phrase "unless directed otherwise by signage or gardai"

There is never an absolute ban on anything.

I can drive northbound on the right-side carriageway of the M3 - IF directed to do so by signage or a garda. That can happen if there's a major road work project or a major accident and they clear the opposite carriageway.

So in the OP which is what is in discussion, signage VERY CLEARLY permits the particular short part of the pavement to be shared between cyclists and pedestrians. It really is as clear as it possibly can be unless you don't understand very basic road signage

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101761#Comment_119101761

Ah jaysus, I totally skimmed that.

Splitting hairs, I can't find any specific legislation stating an obligation on cyclists to yield to pedestrians, though newer regulations may have included that.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101782#Comment_119101782

OK you tell us exactly what the sign means without vague stuff like Gardai direction...

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101782#Comment_119101782

As we know most people using the roads don't seem to understand basic road signs, just walk out onto any street and stand there watching for 5min and you'll see this sadly :(

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101805#Comment_119101805

i suspect that the law allows for signs and their meanings to be introduced/changed without having to change primary legislation to do so; so the meaning or definition of the sign is part of a statutory process allowed for under the law, without the sign appearing in the law.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101822#Comment_119101822

I doubt it... have you an example say from a court case where this was stated...

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101708#Comment_119101708

Again, many years going this way and never see issues here. On occasion I see errors of judgement where a pedestrian stops to yield right of way when they shouldn't (but presumably there is no bus coming and they are trying to be nice), and I have no doubt that while I haven't seen it, it will happen where some jerk will plough on. Like most people though, I ride through, slow as I approach the back of the bus stop, although I will often use the bus lane as its faster and safer than the swing in and out at the bus stop. It often scares the sh1te out of bus and taxi drivers when you come out from behind the stop and they never noticed you before, and without reference, they panic that you might come out in front of them. Bus lane is easier, its downhill and you can merge back into the bike lane in about 10 seconds. If a cyclist needs a sign to alert them to the fact they should slow around there if there are peds around, then they shouldn't be out in public, never mind on a bike. This said, while it may happen, I can't see many if any reports of actual accidents either around there.

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101806#Comment_119101806

Very simple - Cyclists and pedestrians shared area from this point.

Exactly as depicted.

I just showed it to a 10 year old kid. They said it means bicycles and people walking can use the path.

So a 10 year old could say on the spot what the sign means, and you can't?

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119102011#Comment_119102011

Parts of the rules of the road will state "unless directed by signage or by direction of a garda"

Signage is updated regularly and the last update was August 2019 https://assets.gov.ie/34708/5ead6743874f4f2785310a28ccff4295.pdf

I think you are trying to create an argument where none exists, just for the sake of being belligerent.

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101816#Comment_119101816

They understand alright - they just prefer to ignore the signs 😁😂😁

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103190#Comment_119103190

Point out the section where it says bicycles and pedestrians share a footpath... you are the one thats argueing as you say you know... well point it out...

Parts of this is sh1t talk... point it out...

You are not allowed to cycle on a footpath unless there is a designated cycle lane on the footpath or you are entering or exiting a property. Cycling on a footpath is not a specific fixed charge offence though

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103828#Comment_119103828

I wonder are you playing an odd game of semantics? It doesn't say anything about cycling on a footpath. What magicbastarder's link does explicitly say is that there are road signs for "shared spaces". It's probably safe to assume that the road sign was created because these shared spaces actually exist in the real world. Are they "footpaths"? If you prefer that they're not named as such, I'm sure that's fine.

There's one just outside my place of work, and it's obviously in place because the road at that point is too narrow to allow for two segregated tracks. It only lasts a short distance, then reverts back to footpath and cycle path side by side

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104020#Comment_119104020

There is no such thing as shared spaces on foothpaths or pedestrian crossings but i am open to correction...

You seem to know because there is a shared footpath with bicycles in your work area so i expect you know who has priority...

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104205#Comment_119104205

Right, so you are playing some sort of silly game.

The sign exists. It's in various locations around the country. A description of the sign exists. It was posted above.

The area in which the sign post is placed is designated as a shared space for both pedestrians and cyclists.

It has been pointed out that this is considered less than ideal, and should only be used where it's not possible to segregate the two.

The sign does not assign priority, but general common sense would say that cyclists cede priority to pedestrians in this space.

Of course, you're absolutely free to ignore all of this and continue rambling on about cycling on footpaths

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104241#Comment_119104241

What's the fcuking law in regard to the signs... road signs are clear direction... pointed out by who... what does the sign mean to you... its crazy we have signs that people do not understand...

cletus

1b6d65651bba484ab67f803f3de694bb.pdf

Here's a document created by the Dept. Of Transport, Tourism, and Sport. It deals with Regulatory road signs that may legally be used in Ireland.

On page 43, the sign is listed, along with its meaning. In case you can't access that, here's a screenshot of the relevant section...

In case you can't read that, here's the relevant text

5.18.3 The sign for Pedal Cycles and Pedestrians, RUS 058, prohibits all vehicles except pedal cycles from using the identified track. The sign indicates that pedestrians, wheel chair users and cyclists share the track, and there is no physical or visual segregation between them. It should only be used in exceptional circumstances, where it is impracticable to provide segregated facilities and cyclists shall yield to pedestrians.

The text highlighted in bold was done by me, as those two pieces should answer your question

Finally, here's a picture of RUS 058, the sign in question

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104365#Comment_119104365

You said i was playing a silly game... have a look at post #11 and we chat if you want but i think this game belong to me...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101689#Comment_119101689

Well you are just wrong about the shared space. 100% legally wrong.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097008#Comment_119097008

This post? It's just you saying what you think it means, which holds exactly zero weight.

I've just linked to the official document from the Dept of Transport detailing the meaning and use of the sign.

At this stage I have to assume you are either trolling (badly), or you lack basic functional literacy

maestroamado

Check section 5.18.3 of post # 89 and come back to me with legal stuff... be interesting....

It's clear. At end of cycle track, cycle must yield entering shared path. Traffic light is right of path so only applies to road. It is almost like some try to find problem to complain about