Legal situation with traffic lights at on-path cycle lanes.

Seth Brundle

There is another one on Bóthar Katharine Tynan with the junction to Fettercairn. A continuous cycle lane which is mostly on the footpath but reduces to road level at the junction...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kVKmE5VdfGLQEffp8

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098430#Comment_119098430

Regardless of the intent, the design is very poor. There's hardly room for a cyclist and a buggy to pass with the number of signposts and lamp posts on that pavement. Honestly, I'd say it's irresponsible for someone to cycle on that path as it would be difficult to do it safely.

sam t smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098420#Comment_119098420

Of course it does. I see cyclists illegally cycling on footpaths every day. Half of them don’t realise it is an offence, the other half don’t give a ****.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097585#Comment_119097585

I also think its shared space but the pedestrians have priority as after all it was originally a foot path... its an absolutely stupid design but thats not a big surprise...

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098609#Comment_119098609

That's got nothing to do with this sign or design though. That's their own ignorance.

I see drivers going through reds and amber's everyday. Pedestrians cross were there not supposed to..joggers in cycle lanes.

There's a point when we have to accept personal responsibility for our poor behaviour and not blame design.

That sign indicates a shared lane. If anything it should do the opposite of what you say. You don't see that sign, it's not a shared lane.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098511#Comment_119098511

i know i'm like a stuck record mentioning this example, but this is a shared path, and fully bi-directional - in essence, it carries all foot traffic that might be heading past dublin airport to and from swords or other towns north of the airport - and is also a cycle lane which in theory caters for northbound and southbound cycle traffic on the same route.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4324523,-6.22992,3a,75y,336.7h,74.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sj4sYFh-jcSrvQjr7DNqlhQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dj4sYFh-jcSrvQjr7DNqlhQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D41.862907%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098679#Comment_119098679

The illegally parked van is the cherry on the cake.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097260#Comment_119097260

The Lights apply to the road if you move into it.

ted1

Just as a FYI. the cycle path further down has had a upgrade

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098420#Comment_119098420

What law is a pedestrian breaking if they walk in a cycle lane? The law is vehicles can't use cycle lanes nothing about pedestrians.

DaveyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098462#Comment_119098462

I stop for this one because the lane is on the road, inside the width of the traffic light.

tnegun

I often wondered that here too, the cycle lights are sync'd with the pedestrian lights and not the traffic lights so you must dismount and walk around the fencing hit the button and walk back to your bike and wait for a green light to do it legally! I contacted the council about it and it's by design! It's one of the many "issues" with the cycle lanes in Maynooth.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098732#Comment_119098732

I was asking in relation only to the pic in OP where for me the footpath is shared and part up to yield sign has bike lane...

If say a person wanders into bike lane or if a boke hits on footpath... Likely nice bill for DCC... looks crazy for me...

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098814#Comment_119098814

A bicycle is a 'vehicle' under the road traffic acts.

Breezer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098893#Comment_119098893

How on earth did the council phrase that?

”I have to perform this mad, seemingly unnecessary dance to continue through this junction on a bicycle.”

”Yes, that was our intention.”

🤔

yesto24

I would have thought it was obvious that the cycle track has a yield on it (the triangle) and beyond that the round blue sign shows shared cycletrack and footpath. The cycle path picks up again just past the junction and bus stop. Cyclists just have to slow down a bit here be mindful of the other footpath users and are then on their way again. They don't have to stop at the lights.The footpath is too narrow to have both a cycle track and footpath. So it's a good compromise.

The road beside it was a two lane dual carriage way originally. It is now too narrow bus lane and two driving lanes.

It was originally built about 1977 replacing a 1950s road. All things considered it's about as good as you are going to get there.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099042#Comment_119099042

In practical terms, I'd fully agree with you.

My question is whether the law takes this practical approach or not.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098814#Comment_119098814

I didn't say they were breaking a law but it's poor practice and shouldn't be done for the most part.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099011#Comment_119099011

I dont think vehicles are allowed on footpaths is in OP...

tnegun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099012#Comment_119099012

I complained about several aspects of the junction, traffic light polls and ESB boxes left in the middle of the new bike lane and they just sent me a generic reply stating that it was designed to best practice, by qualified engineers following DMURS with no specific reference to any of the issues I highlighted.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098893#Comment_119098893

That post makes no sense to me... if you are cycling straight ahead you go with the traffic... why would you need get off the bike...

Also how do cyclists manage in other direction as i do not see any cycle route...

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246902/legal-situation-with-traffic-lights-at-on-path-cycle-lanes

I just can't see how this is not understood. It has both signage and pavement markings.

Signage - clearly states shared space for pedestrians and cyclists. In a shared area you reduce speed and be extra vigilant for pedestrians.

Road marking - very clearly has a break on the forward line. That indicates you move though that line break to proceed ahead.

If the cyclist was to move into the bus lane, the lane would vere to the right with a yield sign at the end of the cycle lane and a sign with a line through a bicycle would be there instead of the sign that very very clearly shows a shared space.

My guess is because it has obstacles for a short period, it is not possible to have separate cycle and pedestrian delineation and that the separate cycle lane continues no long after the obstacles have been passed

And I'm not a cyclist

Btw - if a garda stopped you, I'd be suggesting to that garda to go back to templemore and learn the very basic principles behind road signage

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100843#Comment_119100843

The very fact that a bicycle is allowed to share the same space as a pedestrian is crazy... tor me the yield sign is pedestrians have priority and if footpath busy cyclists will have to walk until its safe...

I was talking to a guy a few years ago and he said a lot of our Irish roads were built for bikes by the brits 100 years ago when only a few of us had bicycles... He said for the last 50 years these same roads have trucks cars tractors and now the bicycles want to take the roads back for themselves.. This conversation in west of Irl...

seamus

^^

There's nothing wrong with bicycles and pedestrians sharing the same space. In many contexts and countries it works. Context being important though. If you have a busy route used for commuters, you don't want it mixed. But leisure and tourists spots where people might pootle along at 15 km/h work perfectly fine in a shared model. After all, someone out for a run could collide with a pedestrian and easily do as much damage as a bike.

A more explicit separation of fast traffic from slow traffic is probably worthwhile though. Because some routes may have a mix of commuter and leisure traffic, like the Phoenix Park. Perhaps it should be made explicit through signage and education that shared spaces are intended for slow-moving bicycles and children and that if you wish to cycle faster you should use the road instead.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101057#Comment_119101057

I have never seen a shared space where there is not either a cycle lane or a clear sign saying who has priority... i think this sign in OP is saying pedestrians have priority...

Its terrible we have a road sign and no-one knows absolutely for sure what it means...

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119101135#Comment_119101135

I've never seen a road sign that says whether cyclists, cars, motorcycles, or trucks have priority. And a road is shared.

Similarly a path does not say whether a parent with a buggy or a wheelchair user has priority over another pedestrian.

Common sense though does tell you that you respect the other shared users, so I as a motorist will always give a cyclist or scooter a wide berth for safety. Similarly if I see a wheelchair or buggy coming on a path, I will move over as its easier for me to do so.

A cyclist, I would hope, would respect the pedestrian when on a shared path.

The problem with putting a sign up is that some of the persons who are then given the priority then acts like the gestapo with a selfish self-entitlement attitude.

Macy0161

I used to commute on the N11, and tbh that section seemed to work fine. Cyclists slowed down, pedestrians were aware. It's just a lack of space.

Economics101

Maestroamado, you said: "I was talking to a guy a few years ago and he said a lot of our Irish roads were built for bikes by the brits 100 years ago when only a few of us had bicycles... He said for the last 50 years these same roads have trucks cars tractors and now the bicycles want to take the roads back for themselves".

Our roads were built originally for horses, rather than bikes, and well over 100 years ago in most cases. (Why would "the Brits" have built the roads for bikes if vey few of us had them?). Anyhow, this is largely irrelevant to contemporary road signage and its interpretation.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098893#Comment_119098893

I know that junction well, but I'm confused. What is the purpose of the cycle light on the far side of the junction (I assume that's the one you're referring to as it's the only one I can see).

I have seen quite a few of these lights around Dublin that serve no purpose at all that I can see (perhaps I'm just thick).

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100685#Comment_119100685

Follow the Street View link in tnegun's post, the 'cycle route' in the other direction is the footpath. Or at least it was the footpath, where cycling was dangerous and illegal, until they painted a bicycle icon on the footpath, and now cycling on the footpath is just fine.