Welfare recipients can become landlords soon

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/welfare-recipients-to-be-allowed-to-earn-14-000-a-year-renting-out-a-room-1.4882230

Where to start here?

Ill go first.

When the stampede of applications to more than double their income overnight arrive will all the applicants rental offerings be thoroughly assessed for small things like living conditions?

Who will do all this work? The councils are stretched already.

I dont see this new scheme ending well. Grenades everywhere with this one.

L1011

The number of welfare recipients who own their own home is not large - any renting will either need landlord permission to sublet or pay increased differential rent on a social house.

So no, there won't be a stampede. Because there's very very few people who will be in any position to do this

More likely outcome is someone who is already renting out a room and loses their job won't kick the lodger out so they can get welfare

Boggles

People need to stop treating people who avail of social welfare for whatever reason as bottom feeders who need to be constantly subservient and apologetic for the fact they may have hit on hard times.

Gregor Samsa

will all the applicants rental offerings be thoroughly assessed for small things like living conditions?

There's no legal minimum standards for renting out a room in a house that you live in, so there'll be no assessment needed. Also, legally you're not a "landlord" if you're renting out a room in a house that you live in. You don't have to register with the RTB, and the rental arrangement is done under a licensee agreement, not a tenancy agreement. The tenant also has very little protection under applicable law.

Pretty much the only thing that will have to be checked is that the renter isn't earning more than €14,000 a year from the arrangement, and that's something that Revenue deal with.

All of this is in existence already. The only thing that's changing is that welfare recipients will be allowed the 14k allowance specifically from renting a room so it doesn't count against their welfare. Everyone is already entitled to the same allowance so it doesn't affect income tax.

There's really no issue here at all.

Wanderer78

....just build the fcuking houses already!

BluePlanet

The sheer absurdity of her statement.

 "It’s about ensuring people who receive a welfare payment are treated in an equal manner to other taxpayers."

But as a PAYE taxpayer, if I rented a room out it would be taxable income so where's the equality in that?

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083909#Comment_119083909

Under the plans, a new disregard will be introduced to a limit of €14,000 per year for those who rent a room in their own home, which is similar to Revenue’s existing rent-a-room relief scheme which has been in operation for a number of years. The new rules will apply to those who are in receipt of means-tested social welfare payments.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083909#Comment_119083909

Nope.

People who are working are already able to earn €14,000 tax-free by renting out a room under Revenue’s Rent-a-Room scheme

Confused11811

I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote in another thread on this non-issue

"Regarding pensioners those on the contributionary pension who owe thier own home or have a council/AHB house can do this already without penalty from the social welfare. It has an affect for those on the non contributionary pension in that they won't be means assessed.

I don't begrudge them at all. I know a few pensioners in large council houses who have actively been in contact with the council to downsize them to small houses but the council have no suitable stock. There's a huge amount of 3 and 4 bed council houses with one or two over 65's living there. IMHO we should be more concerned about that issue.

The only welfare recipients this actually really affects are those on "allowance" payments such as disability allowance but those numbers are small, the big one is Jobseekers allowance. All welfare recipients on "Benefit" payments are not means assessed.

The big issue here is for the private landlords of those "allowance" welfare recipients on HAP, RAS or rent allowance. While those tenants could previously sublet a room (if not forbidden by the rental agreement) they probably wouldn't do so because loosing money from thier welfare payment.

However rent allowance is basically a thing of the past replaced by HAP and RAS. These schemes are administered by the local council and not the DEASP (welfare) There may be a financial impact reducing the RAS or HAP payment because of the increase of household income. The same council rules on income should apply here regardless of the social welfare change of policy. So TBH the incentive may not be all that good as you may think.

TBH the announcement sounds like the government half arsed attempt of trying to tackle 2 issues , housing and inflation rises for social welfare low income earners. It gives the latter an option of getting more money. The reality is most already had that option and didn't choose to take it, they probably won't now so it's affect on housing is probably going to be next to zero. But the government can say , look at what we did to help."

AMKC

Believe me renting out a room in your house to a stranger is not fun.

I have been there and it was a nightmare.

I am currently renting a room out now but it's to family so not so bad. If you have a room to rent out a suggest you try and rent it to someone you know, trust and are responsible and preferably working too.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083934#Comment_119083934

i know a chap thats thinking of leaving Ukraine's have his house until they need it, you have to admire his generosity, but......

Kermit.de.frog

Should any individual on social welfare be able to take in 25k a year tax free? That's an entirely legimate moral and societal question.

If you are working and paying taxes of course you're going to have opinions. It's your taxes at the end of the day.

If rooms don't need assessment as one poster has mentioned that's even worse in my view.

All accommodation should be assessed no matter how small.

busy bee 33

Why can’t we just build up?

Build up (minimum 30 storeys) in a strategic location along the quays, these will be reserved only for people working in the vicinity.

Build another one of similar size and quality for low income workers in receipt of state support in a cheaper and less strategic location.

Build a third one for people who solely earn social welfare. Do not mix the occupants, keep them strictly segregated.

At the same time we don’t want to resort to social apartheid.

Massively increase public transport to / from these locations to encourage efficient travel. Double the wages of P/T drivers.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083950#Comment_119083950

The majority of actual rental accommodation is never actual assessed due to a lack of resources. Extending inspection to rent a room setups would

a: Add so much bureaucracy that people would stop renting them out

b: Be just performative and not actually effective, as they simply would not be inspected.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083950#Comment_119083950

In your OP you were worrying that there wasn't the resources to do an assessment, and now you're saying that assessments should be done across the board (without any regard to the resources it would take). You're all over the place on this one, and you clearly didn't know any of the facts about the issue before you jumped in with two feet. It's clear your problem is just with welfare recipients being given even the smallest financial leeway.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083876#Comment_119083876

The issue is that this government do not treat everyone equally.

When I was a student in college I applied for the susi grant and I got a little bit but my parents earned (and still do) earn fcuk all and receive some welfare. I had to go apply for the poor fund in the college to be able afford basic necessities.

And as welfare payments are based on household income, if my ma earns a few euro more at work, then when it comes to the review, my da gets his welfare cut! My sister wanted to move back home to save for a mortgage until she found out that if she did, then her income would be taken into account for the welfare claim and the allowance would be cut massively!

Now you have people in basically free houses being allowed to get 14k tax free!

Our carers get paid a low amount of money from the state, yet if someone becomes a carer and is getting the benefit from the state for it, then if their husband or wife is on a welfare payment, their payment is cut significantly.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083961#Comment_119083961

You should read/watch JG Ballard's High-Rise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4pujABeKuA

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083934#Comment_119083934

Why are you acting like it's something uncommon? Most people know what it's like to share a house with someone. Anyone who is single or doesn't own their own home is likely sharing.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083982#Comment_119083982

There are a multitude of issues here. You're focusing on welfare.

On accommodation, it's very simple to me, don't allow it if resources are not there to undertake prior assessments and then routine inspections.

It's this country all over to make a situation worse before fixing a problem which is all this will do.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084033#Comment_119084033

The resources don't exist to do that for conventional rentals currently. How are you proposing to fund the massive increases required to do it for conventional rentals first?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084017#Comment_119084017

People in social housing will not be able to rent a room out without it affecting their differential rent. Few of them would have a spare room anyway

This is not for people in social housing or private rented - it is for the small number of people on means tested welfare who own their own house. Some retired, some on disability payments, etc.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246458/welfare-recipients-can-become-landlords-soon

Where do you start... really - start living in the real world and realise that there will be no stampede, then go find an interesting hobby to keep you occupied.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084033#Comment_119084033

You're the one who started the thread just because you heard that welfare recipients were going to be entitled to the allowance. I'm only focusing on your lack of knowledge of the whole situation. You've gone from complaining about a specific scheme that a handful of welfare recipients will be able to make use of, to an entire overhaul of the whole domestic rental regulatory framework and system - and all because you heard a few people on the dole, disability or state pensions would be allowed take in a Ukrainian in need that's willing and able to pay their way for accommodation, and not have their welfare cut off.

Sardonicat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083909#Comment_119083909

The first €14000 rental income is disregarded. Now it will be the same for Welfare recipients, as long as the rental income stays below €14,0000, their entitlement to their benefit won't change. And Welfare recipients is a very broad sweep of folk, not merely those currently signing on.

tabby aspreme

I suppose, Single Maaaas will only have one kid now, as it's more profitable to rent the rest of the house, than have more sprogs

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084228#Comment_119084228

This isn't an option for those in social housing

Anyway, if you only have one kid (or all girls/all boys) you only get a two bed anyway.

Confused11811

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084017#Comment_119084017

Sorry you're talking through your arse here. The government treats everyone the same. There are financial cut off points for the susi grant. They apply to everyone. If the income of your parents is above that then your mum and dad aren't doing that bad.

Welfare payment aren't based on household income. It's based on the joint income of an individual and thier partner. If one partner is working and the other on an "allowance" social welfare payment then the "allowance" payment is means assessed. This again applies to everyone in the state. If one person is working and the other is on a "benefit" payment there is no means assessment. So if your father is getting means assessed he hasn't enough prsi contribution due to lack of recent work and is a long term social welfare recipient who's time on a benefit payment is up and was moved to an allowance.

You're sisters income wouldn't affect your father's social welfare payment, this is a fact. Your sisters income would only have an impact on the household in one situation and that's where your parents where social tenants with either the council or an AHB. In that situation rent is rightly based on household income , it's the same for all people on in council and AHB housing.

So it seems to me your annoyed that your social welfare and possibly council/AHB housing dependent family earned too much for you to get another welfare payment in the form of the susi grant.

Then you go on to give out about people getting free houses and 14k on top, nothing stopping your parents doing it.

Gatling

But if your living as a couple your means tested and if one is earning you get less assistance , but you can essentially rent out a room to a ukrainain and the income doesn't effect your welfare payment ,

But the rest of us would lose money and medical cards .

So much for people wanted to equal system not a two tier system

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084282#Comment_119084282

The scheme isn't specific to renting a room to any Nationality.

Also you are equating 2 completely different things.

Neither scenario would be "punished" now for a change in circumstances.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084314#Comment_119084314

So they can become landlord and earn 14k + and face no cuts ,but a young older couple with a child face sanctions if one earns a little bit more .

Another fine disaster led by the government

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084353#Comment_119084353

Again you are equating 2 completely different things.

It's an incentivization scheme that already existed and has now been expanded.

There is nothing stopping the younger couple benefiting from the same scheme.