Champions Cup 2023

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542407#Comment_120542407

She has reffed a world cup final.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542539#Comment_120542539

Does Peyper count as a URC ref?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542539#Comment_120542539

Im fairly sure they could bring in anyone, and could bring someone from Aus or NZ up for this one, but yea its probably going to be wayne ‘thats not a headshot’ barnes or the smiling luke pearce who would suit an open fast game.

My moneys on luke.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542539#Comment_120542539

With Pearce being AR on Saturday, I’d say there’s a good chance they will swap around for the final.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542671#Comment_120542671

Thanks for the heads up. Women's rugby isn't exactly my forte of knowledge so completely forgot that she may have done some high level matches in that context.

Still, she deserves wider recognition as a top class referee, and (perhaps unfortunately) that only comes with reffing in the men's game.

Someone else mentioned that Georgian fella and he'd be a good shout too. Very uncontroversial - never the centre of attention.

I'd just presumed it was teams from the club's nations (i.e. Ireland and France) that were disallowed rather than the entire league, but could very well be incorrect in that assumption.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542672#Comment_120542672

well i think once the union is a member of the league, then any refs associated with that union is a league ref.

but to be fair, like i said above, im not 100% on these things at all.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542648#Comment_120542648

Do you know which ones.

Was it Heineken Cup or European Champions Cup.

I believe the rule came in with the European Champions Cup. That said I'm not sure it's an actual rule but it was discussed a lot in the transition between European Cup and European Champions Cup.

Every single game in this seasons European Champions Cup was refereed by a non league referee.

Also the Nika Amashukeli was the only referee that wasn't from a participating country.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542672#Comment_120542672

I'm not sure he even qualifies as a referee to be fair.

Interested Observer

Twitter rumour it's going to be the Georgian dude (I'm not even going to try spell his name off the top of my head).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543103#Comment_120543103

I’d be happy with this.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543103#Comment_120543103

I'm Matthew Kelly

lawrencesummers

After watching back the incidents barnes missed like porters off the ball dump tackle and the nightclub headbutt i would have been surprised if barnes was on the sideline for the final

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546419#Comment_120546419

Can someone clarify the rules around Porter's tackle? It didn't look like he went beyond horizontal and he landed on the flat of his back rather than on his shoulder, neck or head. Should Barnes have Called it dangerous play I=or are the physics of the tackle illegal?

Akrasia

This is how he landed. Clearly beyond the horizontal on his shoulder/upper back area

If it was properly TMO'd Porter would have been carded. And the colour is debatable

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547897#Comment_120547897

And the colour is debatable

No it isn't. Let's not be ridiculous here.

It was a potential yellow, that is it.

cuttingtimber22

I posted this on the fan site but probably of interest more to the neutrals speculating on where this final will land.

On Saturday, Leinster were well worth their win. The way Leinster can bring things up a gear at certain points of the game is impressive to watch. absolutely ruthless and will turn the screw. The interplay between backs and forwards, and how everyone works together in defence is an example to all. 

Players like Sheehan, Ryan Doris, VDF, JGP, Ringrose and Keenan are genuinely world class. I am not being critical of other players but these on form would be on or close to a world XV. Saying that Conan had a stormer and Byrne answered his critics. Furlong is getting back to best and Porter must be horrible to play against. 

While it was a good win on the scoreboard, I think there is plenty for LAR to get confidence from:

• Beat Leinster last season. Against the odds.
• Lansdowne Road is not an intimidating stadium. 
• Toulouse were on top in the first 15 mins or so. They were making big inroads and had Leinster on the rack. 
• Toulouse got the bench wrong with Dupont playing out of position which clearly affected their groove. 
• Leinster scored 28 points when Toulouse were down to 14 men. Focus on discipline and La Rochelle have a chance. 
• if Ramos had taken that intercept it would have been Toulouse building up a lead.
• If Porter had got the yellow card then Toulouse would have had their own advantage after scoring just before half time. 
• The second yellow was an unnecessary brain fart. They had a just got a 50-22 and looked well positioned to get a score when it was pulled back by the TMO. 

saying that, all of the above will help to keep the players and the supporters grounded.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547441#Comment_120547441

Technically is it even a tackle when the player lifted and dropped doesnt even have the ball?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547917#Comment_120547917

With barnes it would have been a yellow alright, and maybe not even a yellow

I wonder is it a possible citing?

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548377#Comment_120548377

I think a yellow but not a citing which would qualify as a probable red in the opinion of the citing officer.

To add we are beyond the citing window. Only one from the weekend was this one:

https://www.epcrugby.com/2023/05/02/red-card-charles-ollivon-rc-toulon/

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548340#Comment_120548340

Yes because he'd just released the ball so the ref judged the timing to be legal, otherwise the discussion would be about tackling without the ball. I'm open to being corrected but I'm not seeing anything wrong with the tackle.

Buer

It's a borderline yellow. As Lawrence says above, Barnes is a fairly lenient referee on these items and I absolutely wouldn't rule out him saying it was penalty only.

For clarity, going past horizontal was removed from the laws some time ago. The law these days is as follows:

"A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground."

We can see in the above still image, his upper body (upper back, shoulders, neck, head) are not in contact with the ground initially (clear daylight between his shoulders and the ground) as the middle of his back makes contact with the ground.

It's a penalty on the basis that it's fractionally late and then needs to be looked at whether Porter maintained contact with him all the way down and didn't drop him which is dangerous. Like any decision, it will depend on the referee's opinion. I think Porter is fortunate not to have been spoken to but, given it didn't happen in the act of scoring and the try was scored, no action being taken is/was likely. It would have been seriously surprising if there was any citing for it.

cuttingtimber22

I see that Gordon D’Arcy in the Irish Times is quick off the mark and making La Rochelle favourites.

Last season the expectation in here was that Leinster only had to show up to be crowned champions. Wonder whether there will be the mood among the ‘fan’ media be hyping up Leinster or will it be ‘backs to the wall’.

pc7

I'd definitely have LAR as favourites, they are a seriously big team and ROG is some coach. I'm hoping the 'home' aspect balances things up a bit, Also the memory of the loss last year, think Leo will have a few cards up his sleeve. Really hoping we do it, should be some game, cannot wait.

prawnsambo

It's hard to know how good LaR are based on their semi-final showing. Exeter gifted them so much possession and let them off the hook so many times in attack through basic errors. Losing 75% of your scrums and being turned over 15 times is actually hard to reconcile with the full time score.

Which leads to the obvious tiredness of the LaR pack after 60 minutes. Uni Atonio was practically begging to go off at 50 minutes but had to remain on for another scrum and subsequent phases. But even early on, Exeter were opening up gaps on the outside that they signally failed to exploit.

Leinster need to take any chances they get and stay in touch on the scoreboard until the last quarter. Anything else and it'll be another long day.

stephen_n

Given how last year played out, I don’t see how staying in touch till the last quarter would be a good thing. In fact I would assume it will be LAR trying desperately to stay in touch till the last quarter. If they get that far and Leinster aren’t at least 2 scores ahead, they will be happy. Leinster need to score early and often. They need to put LAR under pressure both on the scoreboard and on the field. Hopefully this time when they cynical give away penalties in the red zone, they will be punished for it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549313#Comment_120549313

Perhaps, but they were seriously flagging against Exeter in the last 20. However, Exeter were rubbish.

Anyway, the bookies think Leinster are strong favourites and I agree with them.

pickarooney

They could afford to pull up in the last quarter against an Exeter side that was dead by HT. LaR have shown repeatedly that they can keep going and going when they need to.

AdamD

LAR took the foot off the gas against Exeter because the game was dead, not sure I'd read anything more into it.

Buer

The bookies make Leinster 8 point favourites which, based on the season to date, is fair enough.

It's a one off game thought and La Rochelle will be concentrating on doing a demolition job on Leinster ball again. They're probably more accurate in that area than they were at this point last year and shifting Botia back to flanker is paying off hugely for them. There's a decent chance that he doesn't play again until the final and is wrapped in cotton wool given his importance to the team (I'm assuming he'll be absent for Toulon with the RTTPs).

I was heartened by the Leinster maul showing at the weekend particularly defensively. La Rochelle are on another level in terms of power in that area thanks to the size of their props as well as their cohesion but even more so in the scrum where they absolutely destroyed Toulouse earlier this season. Minimal scrums will be important for Leinster to keep the ball and the clock moving.

I'd take a lot of heart from the respective benches if Leinster have Kelleher and Henshaw back fit. That potentially allows Leinster to bring in Healy, Kelleher, Ala'alatoa, Jenkins, Baird, McGrath and Ngatai in the final quarter when a mixture of impact and direction is required.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549350#Comment_120549350

Fair. It can hard to tell the difference.

I still don't think they were ultimately that impressive. They left a lot of holes that a more competent team would have exploited and Exeter's defence was atrocious.