Tams farmyard plan

DJ98

Submitting an application under tams for a one sided cattle crush and require a farmyard plan for this application. Is this something with the right measurements you can draw up yourself or does it require a professional? Also would it work out cheaper to put up a basic cattle crush without going the tams route?

Cavanjack

Farmyard plan can be done with a pen and ruler. Saw plans done up that a child could have done better.

As for going tams I would definitely if getting 60%, if getting 40% I’d still get the tams and remember that you’ll do it right with it.

DBK1

Yep as Cavanjack said a ruler and pen is all that’s needed for the farmyard plan.

It always works out cheaper to go for the grant if you can get it and you’ll have a superior job done also.

DJ98

How accurate in terms of scale would it need to be?

mr.stonewall

Farm yard plan at a scale of either 1:100 or 1:250 which ever is most suitable. Farmyard plan has to have outline of building and and major features. I used a print out of Google maps to that scale and traced over it.

The plan of the crush will have to be to a scale or 1:100 or 1:50 whichever is most suitable again. This will have to be detailed and measurements indicated. This is what the Dept will work off for cost. Even the area of new concrete floor will have to be clearly indicated, lengths of gates and barriers, clean and dirty water drainage paths, etc.

You may have to get planning or a planning exemption from the council for this job for TAMS grant.

I did one for a crush a few years ago here at the 60% grant, did the drawings submitted the paper work for the application myself and got a letter back looking for a planning exemption. Submitted the drawings, letter and images of the proposed style of gates and barrier to give a representation of the elevations to the council for an exemption. No problems and a letter back 8 week later granting it. Dept even came out to measure the job when the claim was submitted. Again they were very helpful with any queries and are encouraging farmers to submit their own applications if they can. Very interesting stat they gave was less than 5% of all applications were submitted by farmers, rest by advisors. This included even the small and the simple jobs. They want to see more farms do the small and simple ones.

Would I do it again with TAMS?? The simple answer is yes, got 60% grant aid and the vat back. Made it a cheap job, but I made it cheaper, by doing the paperwork and construction work myself. If I had to get someone to do both of these it would have eating a good chunk of the grant money. No grant I would have done a cheap job, the grant let me have a lifetime job, that safe on man and beast, but most importantly time saving

Big thing is to read the dept spec documents carefully, they are the Bible's that you have to work to

DJ98

Do you have to put in a new concrete base when putting in a crush? Was planning on setting it up along side the sheep handling yard, which is already concreted

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035027#Comment_119035027

Had to as it was sloped and required to get a reduced fall. Between ripping out the old crush and dealing with slope it wasn't worthwhile to try to keep it. it can be as easy to concrete it all in as you will have a load of posts close together. It will help to tie everything together. Was only 2-3 inch thick and was going to crack. Also put concrete in an area adjoining the area. You will be grant aided on concrete

Be careful as you can't have a crush against a block wall.

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037149#Comment_119037149

Not having a crush against a block wall, is that a no-no in general or just for grant purposes do you know?

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037212#Comment_119037212

Grant purposes from the spec documents

Jb1989

Is there grants on concreting Farm Yard itself,? Don't mean sheds or tanks, just simply the yard.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037241#Comment_119037241

Adjoining yard as ancillary concrete. Anything you concrete you will have to watch drainage of water and avoid clean water and dirty water mixing

Donald Trump

Google maps and use that as a basis for your plan.

also maps.ie will give you a rough idea of dimensions.

If you need elevation above sea level, you can look up old maps online.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037268#Comment_119037268

Would a silt trap be enough?

Turbo12

North facing arrow. Name and address, mark all agitation points, mention no internal agitation points if none, label all buildings and crush area. Include length and width of crush. Mark distance from head of crush to nearest gate or wall, must be longer than 4 metres. You need to apply for 2000 worth of investments, so if short apply for a weighing scales too, no need to claim for a weighing scales. Look up reference costs and if it comes to 1231, put proposed cost as 1230/ 1 euro less that reference costs. No need for elevation above sea level.

Page 13 of the terms and conditions document on the page linked below shows you what you need for the plan. You need to complete a safety course with teagasc or some crowd unless you recently graduated.

While they say its a 40% grant, the reality is by the time everything is paid for, the grant received will be closer to 20% of your total costs.

google awns tams and click on first link to find document

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037852#Comment_119037852

Clean water can go to a drain. Water from the Cattle area is soiled water and needs storage for I think 1 day. This is to allow you to clean it and then its not soiled water

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037268#Comment_119037268

Sound. Thanks

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037885#Comment_119037885

All of the above spot on.

Price of steel has driven the reference prices out of line. Personally I would sit it out for year and see where the price of steel land. Gets the ducks in a row for the application and wait a bit of time before submitting it. Once you receive approval you have a year to complete the job

Turbo12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038058#Comment_119038058

I would disagree, but only in certain cases, an active farmer has an investment ceiling of 80k, current tams is finished end of year, if people are on the fence about doing things and have not maxed out their 80k ceiling, they should be putting applications anyway before end of year, they can get extensions if needs be, or no need to put in a claim if they don't go ahead. This probably only makes sense for things that don't need planning. Also no guarantee of dairy stuff in next tams.

In theory a farmer could put in an application for 80k of a shed in the last week of December and put in another application for a different 80k shed a week later as their investment ceiling resets with next tams .

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038049#Comment_119038049

Wonder how long is the approval process

Neddyusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244998/tams-farmyard-plan

Unfortunately you'll need either full planning permission or a planning exemption for this.

If you've not done that yourself before, you'd need to hire a professional.

In which case, the grant for a pen and crush is not economical.

You'll have most of the value of the grant spent on your planning, grant application, grant claim and compliance costs.

TAMS is only economically sensible for fixed investments > €10,000 or those that don't require planning.

Turbo12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039388#Comment_119039388

No he does not need planning for a crush/nor does he need an exemption. If he can follow the user manual he will be well capable of submitting it himself.

He needs to price doing the grant to the spec required vs non grant spec. He can put in his own labour costs for labour work done by himself.

He could possibly get ancillary concrete with the crush and get a cheap yard done.

Approval takes approx 2 months after closing of tranche.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039608#Comment_119039608

Has Ancillary concrete been removed?

Looking in Animal welfare safety option

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039388#Comment_119039388

No, you do not need planning or an exemption for a pen or crush.

All you need is a sheet of A4 paper, a ruler, pen, computer, scanner and a few brain cells between the ears! I doubt there’s too many houses in the country that would be missing much from that list.

A crush and pen is one of the most economical applications you can make. The materials you’ll be using should be the same whether grant spec or non grant and if you’ve the time you can complete most of the labour yourself and submit the working hours up to the maximum allowance for the project also. A lad that would be handy at the work could end up with the cost of the materials almost fully paid for by the grant amount after providing his own time.

The days of lads putting a few bits of bent tubing that was taken out of somewhere else in the yard or using timber rails are long gone. A crush and pen needs to be done once and done both right and safe.

Unless you’ve plenty of money to throw away or access to sufficient materials for free then anyone putting in a crush and pen should never even consider doing it without a grant.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040246#Comment_119040246

Dept requested a planning exemption from the council for a crush that I did with Tams 3 years ago. Sent in Tams application applied and Dept of ag requested the exemption and a few small clarifications. this can add a bit of time to the approval process. Crush was going to the a yard where existing crush was. Come of the companies will do up drawing of the layout, if you are spending a bit.

If i had to pay labour to stand the crush, with would have cannibalised the grant.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040297#Comment_119040297

If that’s the case then I stand corrected but I applied for one back in 2016 and there was no request for planning from me then.

Even still, unless it’s a very small crush/pen, financially you will be better off getting the planning and going the grant route as long as you can wait the extra few months for planning.

DBK1

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From the department website it seems skulling gate and crush(race) are exempt from planning but if a new pen is being constructed it requires planning.

Turbo12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039797#Comment_119039797

Definitely not for sheds, not certain if it can be just got with a crush.

DJ98

The plan for me is just to put up a handy enough crush, no pen or anything as the sheep yard will double up as a cattle yard, already has gates in place and surrounded by an 8 foot wall and concreted. The crush will be approximately 18 20 foot long and running along side the mass concrete wall of the shed.

Neddyusa

Yes planning or planning/exemption is required for almost all fixed investments under TAMS. And that includes a new fixed crush.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044198#Comment_119044198

No, as I just attached earlier from the department website, planning is not required for a crush, only for the pen surrounding it. In DJ98’s scenario he’s not constructing a new pen so no planning or planning exemption is required.