LIV Golf Invitational League...... NO Political/Ethical conflict posts, see Post#2

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800879#Comment_119800879

I agree they probably will get ranking points in some shape or form, but do they really have loads of the best players in the world ? Obviously anyone good enough to play as a touring pro could come under that banner, but at the very top end, I'm honestly not sure they do right now (or maybe "yet" is more accurate). I mean, ok DJ was, but really hasn't done a thing since his Masters ($31m winnings from LIV notwithstanding 😁), Koepka hasn't been top end in a few years, Cam Smith, meh, many will disagree but IMHO average enough but with a hot putter for the last 18 months, I suppose a bit like Spieth a few years ago. I think LIV need one (or more) of Rory, Rahm, Justin Thomas or Hideki to really, really shake things up.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802384#Comment_119802384

FFS

Cam Smith is the hottest property in golf this year.

would Rors really be no 1 if some of these lads were still on the same circuit gaining ranking points? Maybe. Maybe not. Impossible to tell.

but you can be sure that not giving them ranking points (and you can’t seriously admit that they are not a chunk of the best golfers in the world) is just making the whole ranking points process …… well a bit irrelevant.

y0ssar1an22

"I think it is the first time in my life that I have felt betrayal, in a way," McIlroy told The Guardian. "It's an unfamiliar feeling to me. You build bonds with these people through Ryder Cups and other things.

did he not do the same with the european tour?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800879#Comment_119800879

And the OWGR commitee know the best players are unlikely to stay on a tour where they are no longer recognised as the best players in the world.

You could be right, but you also could be wrong, there is doubt. It may well be that LIV will have to alter the format of their tournaments if they wish to qualify for OWGR points, which would negate some of the parts of the LIV tour which currently appeal to the players.

This is a battle for survival of the PGA and DP Tours, right now the best thing they have going for them is the ranking points, if they don’t put up a fight to protect that, they will become obscure maybe even irrelevant, so of course there is doubt.

Trampas

They’ll get points if they follow the rules. Just cause they’ve a bucket lot of cash and names people recognise doesn’t mean you’re exempt. All depends if they want to accept the rules and currently no is the answer.

If there’s a way and pro can earn their way on to the tour the big fat signing on cheques disappear. Would Poulter and co agree to a order of merit tour and lose his status

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802852#Comment_119802852

Will LIV persist with Poulter and Co when their rankings plummet and they become non entities in the Global golf world? I doubt it, even LIV will tire of paying has beens like him and McDowell.

As long as the PGA retains some top players, others will come through and shoot up the ranking to replace the players who have departed. Soon enough LIV will have the number 200 in the world, DJ, the number 120 in the world, Cam Smith etc, hardly a good selling point for the new tour.

It is clear that to survive as a long term alternative to the established tours, LIV need those ranking points for their tournaments. Everyone involved knows that, so why would the PGA/DP/Majors agree to it?

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802586#Comment_119802586

If they're a chunk of the best golfers in the world, it's a very small chunk or best in the world is quite a broad definition. I get the feeling that those who joined it have given up the idea of making any kind of serious money on the PGA or DP Tours and have decided to cash in while the going is good. Cam Smith being the obvious exception. Still scratching my head over that one.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803412#Comment_119803412

Smith was the one they had to get, so I suspect they went all out to get him. When you look at the list of golfers, there is a hell of a lot of players who are either on a downward trajectory in terms of ranking and earning when on the PGA, and plenty of guys that were never going to be top golfers. Smith is the only one there that I can see being a sustained top 10 player on the PGA tour. To date, the fact that they haven’t convinced more of the elite players to defect means the LIV tour experiment is a failure, but if they start getting more of the top 10’s, then dam may burst.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802586#Comment_119802586

FFS right back.

Smith had a good season, no question, but better then Scheffler's ? Debateable at best.

None of us know whether Rory would be no.1 if the lads were still on the circuit. As you say, impossible to tell. But, bar Smith, none of the LIV guys that I can think of were really lighting it up over the season in fairness, and most of them are well past their sell by date and/or were never really any good anyway (relatively speaking). Some of the younger crew like Ancer, Niemann etc could well have made progress, but come on, they're not really in the "best in the world" conversation or anywhere close to it.

Honestly I'm not in favour of or against LIV, or whether or not they get points. I could easily argue either way on it tbh. At the moment I'm leaning slightly towards the "why should they get points ?". They went off, set up their own private circuit, playing events that don't conform to OWGR criteria and have the neck to look for ranking points for it, just because its them and some of them were good once upon a time. They removed themselves from the system with their eyes open. Why should the likes of McDowell, Poulter or Chase Koepka gain points and maybe move up the rankings for spending their time playing in limited field, no-cut, 54 hole events ? How can they be any way accurately compared to a full time player grinding it out on one of the main circuits ? You can't make the argument that you want to play less golf but want to maintain your world ranking, that's not possible.

Golfgraffix

I think a worry would be LIV snapping up the up and coming college golfers, easy to turn young heads with money

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804232#Comment_119804232

Yep and with no ranking points this up and coming talent will never be seen as the best in the world because they aren’t ranked……. Thus making a mockery of the ranking points system

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804232#Comment_119804232

If they do that, either they are going to have to kick some of the established guys off or change their format. Young college guys are just that, potential, many do not reach the top tier of the sport, and will lose out on honing their skills in the do-or-die grind of the PGA tour. What will be their incentive to improve their game if huge riches are guaranteed, and what use will they be to LIV if they are just kids with no rank?

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804249#Comment_119804249

Actually, if they want to be considered the best in the world, it will make a mockery of their decision to join LIV

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804943#Comment_119804943

The PGA Tour have made it at least a bit more financially viable to get on the tours as a rookie and progress. And I'm not sure that college golfers would be in the sights of LIV in any case. As a so-called 'invitational' tour, you would seem to have to be invited. How many can they realistically 'invite'?

The Big Easy

Maybe they'll develop it into a league system with promotion and relegation?

LIV 1, LIV 2, LIV 3 etc

I can't believe there's still some talking down the quality of the guys that are gone. While the wraparound season is usually a little low on quality, it's much worse this time around with some fields incredibly weak.

A few of the star names from LIV that would've been sprinkled through the fields would've made a difference, I think it's churlish to state otherwise.

Equally it is currently easier to get to number 1 and commensurately down through the rankings. We'll probably see Shane, provided he plays similarly, get in the top 20 and maybe top 10 soon.

I’m sure Jay Monahan is trying his best to find a way of justifying awarding ranking points to LIV. 😂😂😂

He’ll try and make sure it happens sooner rather than later so DJ and Smith don’t drop too far down the rankings. 😂😂😂

#nevergonnahappen

And rightfully so.

I’m most looking forward to how those golfers try and get back on the PGA tour. I’ll be gutted if they are ever allowed. Never forgive. Never forget.

Russman

Slightly tongue in cheek but maybe we’ll end up with two rankings, a bit like cricket has its Test and One Day rankings. You could have your 72 hole ranking and your LIV ranking and entry into the Majors will be a bit like the European Ryder Cup team where you pick x amount of players from the main list and y amount from the LIV listing.

I can’t really see how a basically closed circle of 48 players playing solely against each other 8 or 10 times a year can be ranked versus the hundreds of tour pros on the various tours around the world. Half of the LIV guys are rapidly growing old together and we’ve no real idea how good or not they are now against the guys on the PGA or DPWT. If the LIV guys have no exposure to competition from outside their little circle how can a ranking be remotely realistic ?

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806212#Comment_119806212

What's your skin in the game?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806568#Comment_119806568

Is that a serious question?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806568#Comment_119806568

Huh ?

I read. The Saudi ruler is a scumbag.

ps, I’m not part of the Saudi troll farm fwiw.

I just can’t believe that anyone thinks the Saudi funded tour should get any ranking points.

It shows how good the Saudi government is at influencing the vulnerable.

Sure why don’t a few of us on here get together and start up our own tour. We can play weekly in Ireland. A tour of the counties. Then maybe a few times a year head off on hols to a few different countries and play there also. I’m thinking France, Spain, Portugal and maybe Thailand and Vietnam too.

Then we can approach for, and fully expect to get, offical world golf ranking points. Sorted.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806955#Comment_119806955

Don’t think they should gain ranking points but they should be given A chance to see the light so to speak. A lot of normal people just dont give a **** where the money comes from. Look at Man City

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806962#Comment_119806962

So supposing we ignore the money is coming from the Saudi scumbag then why should they be offered ranking points ?

What’s to stop another group of players separating themselves from the PGA tour, playing weekly against each other l, and getting world ranking points for it ?

And then another group of players a few weeks later ?

And so on.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806969#Comment_119806969

Well nothing I suppose. Your relying on the hope that most players are in it for the glory of winning the traditional majors and legacy rather than just money. Seems money trumps that for a lot of guys. End of the day pga is just a golfing organisation. Look at how rugby went pro and left ail behind

I agree with you about humans.

They generally don’t care about anything that doesn’t directly impact them.

That’s why Man City, PSG and Newcastle are allowed to be run as state funded clubs.

I can’t believe the Saudis wasted a dollar on this golf project when they are having so much success in soccer and for a much lower cost.

I reckon Greg Norman must be a fantastic salesman and has totally sold them a pup.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806978#Comment_119806978

I don’t even get the sportswashing angle with liv. Will it effect peoples view on that regime in a positive way. People that know about the human rights issues there already know and won’t be swayed. Rest don’t know and probably don’t care. With likes of psg Newcastle and city why don’t the media have anything to say. Quatar has the World Cup ffs in winter at a cost to the premier league and other top leagues. Barely a whimper about it.

Dodge

Barely a whimper about Qatar? You can’t honestly be suggesting that? Even this week we had one of the teams come out with a video against the Qatar regime

And there is constant mention of where PSG, City, Newcastle get their money too

We’re not allowed talk about who funds LIV here though

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806992#Comment_119806992

In the msm though? Maybe you’re right. I don’t listen to much of it anymore. Haven’t noticed sky or bt having much to say about city or Newcastle to be honest. They were fuming when big clubs tried a breakaway backed by the Americans though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806985#Comment_119806985

Humans and money.

I’ve noticed articles about the LIV situation in places I never thought but I can only assume that the journalists have been bought off.

If they are buying off other governments then most individuals are vulnerable.

Any journalist with a modicum of integrity would start articles on any of those clubs as, for example, ‘Saudi Arabia State owned team Newcastle …..’ and the same should be true for LIV.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806985#Comment_119806985

Barely a whimper? Have you seen the Australian footballers video?

The media have a lot to say about those three, and about Qatar. The story was very much to the forefront in recent weeks because of Jurgen Klopps comments about City, who then accused him through unnamed sources of discrimination. The WC in Qatar has been in the cross hairs of the media since the day iit was allegedly corruptly assigned to Qatar, the human rights violations, the regimes view on LQGBT, workers accidents and conditions etc

Aside from that, how man footballers have made stomach churning statements like McDowell did, that he was joining LIV for the good of golf, so that he can help spread it globally? And much as I dislike the owners of City and PSG, neither owner has had the publicity attached to the owners of LIV/NU like the brutal murder of the journalist in their embassy.

It is beyond comprehension why anyone would think a poster has “skin in the game” or even that peoples opinions about LIV should be confined to the sport of golf, only the ill-informed can disassociate golf and the LIV owners in any discussion on the tour’s merits.