How does Israel Get way with this

Ardillaun

Assad was and is appalling. I remains surprising to me how many Syrians still support him but that is the case. Every Syrian Christian I have met is a fan, some emphatically so. For all its sins in Iraq and Syria, the Ba’ath party protected Christians from the mob.

Its very simple, embed Zionist sympathisers in just about every developed countrys political system, both in the civil service, lobbying organisations and in the elected government. Look at the number of pro-zionists in the UK government - it is way higher than the national average for zionist supports in the general population - this is no coincidence or accident. Make it to toxic to criticize Israel for fear of having your political career destroyed. Look at the system wide attacks on Corbyn (despite what you may think of him as a politician he is not an antisemite and his campaigning record will clearly show this), but he is not a zionist. Simple fact - there has never been a non-zionist supporting PM in the UK since before the foundation of the state of Israel and Corbyn would have been the first none zionist PM and this is why he was destroyed through a vicious coordinated campaign of lies - orchestrated and paid for by the Israeli embassy.

To be honest - its what any intelligent small vulnerable country would do to protect itself - but it effectively gives Israel free reign to do what it likes in Palestine. Slow purposeful genocide.

tesla_newbie

Anyone ever come across Mark Humphries?, I’m convinced he is a Palestinian agent as he is such an awful advocate for Israel, his debating style is beyond ridiculous

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817554#Comment_120817554

It's funny he's that bad.

Markus Antonius

Enjoy this thread while it lasts. Helen McEntee looking to stamp out all the holocaust denial being discussed here on a daily basis 😋

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814318#Comment_120814318

Assad made public comments criticizing Israel in the early 2000s to Tony Blair, thinking that it would send a message about Syria's standing in the world. You could see Tony Blair's face drop with despair. He knew it would mark the end for Assad and Syria.

It would be like blaming Zelenskyy for the war in Ukraine.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817733#Comment_120817733

Very weird guy , spectrum I suspect?

Snake Plisken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817910#Comment_120817910

How would you know? Your just some nameless poster on boards! Mark is a decent guy and posts on here sometimes. He does great work highlighting the anti-semites in Ireland

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818673#Comment_120818673

He’s entitled to take any position he likes , not having a go at him for that , he’s a very odd individual however the way he presents himself

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818673#Comment_120818673

The word "antisemite" is like the word "hate". Nobody knows what it means and yet is only ever used as a tool to silence opposing or dissenting views...

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817841#Comment_120817841

Stamping out out holocaust denial wouldn't be the worst thing, I couldnt see it happening even with any laws though.

Anyway, there was another awful incident from a while ago some might remember, an autistic man chased and killed by police who shot him, then shot him again fatally as he lay on the ground. Quelle surprise an Israeli court found the police officer not guilty of homicide yesterday. An honest mistake according to the judge as a Palestinian with an object in his hand must be a terrorist. And what next for the killer?

"The acquitted officer has since been readmitted into the Border Police and is slated to join a commanders’ course in the coming weeks, per his request."

Meanwhile at a protest against the acquittal of the officer by left wing Israelis

"Throughout the night, passersby heckled the demonstrators, calling them “traitors” and “goyim.” One counter protester shouted: “There is no such thing as Palestine or the occupation,” while others yelled at the group: “Death to terrorists.”"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-clash-with-group-protesting-acquittal-in-2020-killing-of-autistic-palestinian/

Oh and elsewhere in the West Bank

"The government on Friday acknowledged for the first time that it allowed illegal construction to take place at Homesh, as the IDF barred hundreds of left-wing activists from reaching the illegal outpost as part of a demonstration calling for its dismantlement..

..Blasting Fox’s decision to block the march, Peace Now said in a statement that “peace-seeking Israelis are held back by the army with severe violence, while the violent criminals from the Homesh outpost who looted private lands and carry out atrocities against Palestinians are allowed to roam freely and receive VIP treatment.”

“[The IDF] is letting the vandals from Homesh enter the area, even though it’s against the law, but they’re not letting us,” tweeted Joint List MK Offer Cassif, who had joined the demonstration. “This is what the occupation looks like.”"

Equating been anti-zionist with holocaust denial is exactly the problem that people are highlighting. To even suggest that been anti-zionist makes you a holocaust denier is pathetic.

tesla_newbie

I actually don’t see a problem with Israel being a “ Jewish state “ , dozens of states are effectively officially Islamic so one Jewish one is hardly an outrage?

the bit I do have a problem with is the stealing of other folks land and settling Russians and New Yorkers in new settlements, that’s abhorrent and should be resisted

Brussels Sprout

They want the Palestinian land to be part of an expanded Israel.

At the same time they want Israel to be a Jewish state (despite the fact that 27% of the population are not Jewish).

They can't have it both ways.

Either go with a 2-state solution (Netanyahu clearly has zero actual interest in implementing this) or else absorb the entire of Palestine into a new pluralist, secularist country.

They won't do either of those things though. Instead they'll pay lip service to the 2-state solution, while continuing to steal Palestinian land, compressing Palestinians into a smaller and smaller territory while smashing the inevitable eruptions of fury from them. They even have a disgusting name for this practice - "mowing the lawn".

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821551#Comment_120821551

wanting a “ Jewish state “ doesn’t mean non Jews can’t live in Israel or be Israeli citizens, it means the state is officially Jewish, non Muslims can live in Iran or Saudi Arabia but both countries are officially Islamic

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821551#Comment_120821551

Palestinians will never accept a pluralist and secular State though. Not this century anyway.

That reality must be acknowledged as well.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821675#Comment_120821675

I understand what it means. You say you don't see a problem with that. Fair enough that's your opinion. I see a problem with it since the state of Israel was essentially carved out of land that can be at best described as "contested" and includes a large number of religious minorities. I'm not here to back up Iran or Saudi Arabia either. I'm against the idea of a state religion in principal.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821707#Comment_120821707

Probably not no, although it's a moot point since it won't ever be on the table due to the diluting effect on the Jewish majority that it would have.

I'm not really sure what the end game is here. Will the Israelis compress the Palestinian occupied sections of the West Bank down and down until it's effectively a Gaza II? I'm sure they'd love if they'd all flee to neighbouring countries but that's not a realistic option either (especially given that many of them are already saturated with Syrian refugees and previous waves of Palestinians).

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821551#Comment_120821551

Israel absolutely does not want any “ two state solution “ and I suspect the EU ( never mind Washington) know full well that they don’t

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821877#Comment_120821877

Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t see a problem with Israel being officially a “ Jewish state “

I absolutely abhor it’s ultra aggressive expansionist policies , it’s an extremely violent state

expanding through theft isn’t defending one’s country but that’s how it’s sold

Odhinn

Hopeless as it seems betimes, there are some ways of trying to pressure the Israeli state, and it's something that terrifies them, having seen what it (eventually) did to Apartheid South Africa

https://bdsmovement.net/

.Donegal.

A EUROPEAN ENVOY has blasted Israel today over the “proportionality” of the force it uses, as international envoys toured Jenin refugee camp in the occupied West Bank, following this week’s deadly raid.

His remarks echoed UN chief Antonio Guterres who on Thursday told reporters “there was an excessive force used by Israeli forces” in its 48-hour operation, the largest Israel has staged in the Palestinian territory for years.

It included air strikes and armoured bulldozers ripping up streets.

Jenin is a centre for multiple armed Palestinian groups, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called the refugee camp a “terrorist nest”.

European Union representative to the Palestinian territories Sven Kuehn von Burgsdorff made his comments as he led a delegation of UN officials and diplomats from 25 countries to the camp in the northern West Bank.

“We are concerned about the deployment of weaponry and weapons systems which question the proportionality of the military during the operation,” Kuehn von Burgsdorff said of the operation in which 12 Palestinians and one Israeli soldier were killed.

“This cycle of violence has to end, it cannot continue. If there is no political solution to the conflict, we are going to stand here in a week’s time, in a month’s time, in a year’s time, with nothing changed,” he added.

As the delegation toured the camp, residents peered out of holes left in the walls by Israeli rockets, and local authorities tested a new camp-wide alarm system to warn of future raids.

United Nations condemnation

Yesterday, Israel’s United Nations ambassador called on secretary-general Antonio Guterres to retract his condemnation of the country’s excessive use of force in the military operation that targeted a refugee camp in the West Bank.

But a UN spokesperson said yesterday the secretary-general “stands by those views”.

Guterres, angered by the impact of the Israeli airstrikes and attack on the Jenin refugee camp, said the operation left more than 100 civilians injured, uprooted thousands of residents, damaged schools and hospitals, and disrupted water and electricity networks.

He also criticised Israel for preventing the injured from getting medical care and humanitarian workers from reaching everyone in need.

Israel’s two-day offensive, designed to crack down on Palestinian militants, destroyed the Jenin camp’s narrow roads and alleyways, forced thousands of people to flee their homes and killed 12 Palestinians. One Israeli soldier also was killed.

Guterres said: “I strongly condemn all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror.”

Asked whether this condemnation applied to Israel, he said: “It applies to all use of excessive force, and obviously in this situation, there was an excessive force used by Israeli forces.”

Israel’s UN Ambassador Gilad Erdan called the UN chief’s remarks “shameful, far-fetched, and completely detached from reality.”

He said the Israeli military action in Jenin “focused solely on combating the murderous Palestinian terror targeting innocent Israeli civilians.”

UN spokesperson Farhan Haq said the secretary-general “clearly condemns all of the violence that has been affecting the civilians in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, regardless of who is the perpetrator”.

The UN Security Council discussed Israel’s military operation in Jenin behind closed doors on Friday at the request of the United Arab Emirates and received a briefing from assistant secretary-general Khaled Khiari.

Erdan sent a letter to the 15 council members and Guterres before the council meeting saying that over the past year, 52 Israelis were killed by Palestinians, and many attacks were carried out from Jenin or from the area.

“The international community and the Security Council must unconditionally condemn the latest Palestinian terror attacks and hold Palestinian leadership accountable,” he said.

The Security Council took no action.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821707#Comment_120821707

That’s looking multiple generations ahead. Who would have thought that most of Ireland would have its own government seventy five years after the Famine? At the time of that catastrophe, the Irish were considered incapable of self-government by many of the elite in Britain and, if you don’t mind, responsible for the Famine itself.

Israel can have Palestinians as citizens in its country, in their own country or as sub-citizens with diminished rights in perpetuity. Annexing the West Bank, either formally or by stealth, means a permanent end to the possibility of a Palestine state there forever and the end of Israel as a western democracy.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120859214#Comment_120859214

I might observe that the occupation as it is at the moment already seperates the Israeli state from modern western democracies.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120859520#Comment_120859520

It does.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818673#Comment_120818673

Academics represent their institutions; there really isn’t a solid line anymore between their careers and private lives. The comments Humphrys made about the death of George Floyd are not the sort of thing that escapes notice these days.

Bobtheman

What is amazing is all the threads giving out about Israel and none about say Saudi Arabia?

I'm not condoning Israeli actions but would be nice if people if broadened their condemnation

But look Arabs do such a fine job of running nations around them. They should run the whole place. I'm sure it would be fine.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863907#Comment_120863907

...mostly because Saudi - bad as it is - is not colonising areas outside it's borders. Other reprehensible regimes, like in Syria and Russia, are already under international sanctions and rightly so. India and Indonesia are better examples of states that fly under the radar in terms of condemnation and ostracism.

"Arabs" is a term to be used like "Europeans", rather than to denote some monolithic bloc.

Bobtheman

Personally I think Israel has given up on a two state solution. It's plan is to annex the west bank and give citizenship to West Bank Palestinians.

The inability of the Palestinians to unite doesn't help

The Palestinians might be offered a vote on this.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864071#Comment_120864071

They won't give the Palestinians citizenship, as that would lead to erosion of the euphmistcally titled "majority". Their problem is getting land minus the Palestinians on it.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863907#Comment_120863907

The rulers of KSA are dreadful but nearly all of us know that already, and I can usually assert that opinion without being accused of hating Arabs.