My sporadic running blog

Seve OB

Running is not a regular pastime of mine but I'm doing it a bit more lately to try keep in some kind of shape. Realistically it is just something I dip into every few months and do a few runs here and there. I would like to start improving my times a little (they are shocking). It takes me just over 35mins to do 5km, but that is when I've been out a few times and have gotten myself up to speed. And I can't run it all, I will always have a few moments where I break into a walk for a minute or 2. My most often run route is 3km and we are talking similar 7min/km pace. I can run this non stop.

A few weeks back I ran the 3km a bit quicker to start with but it killed me and I slowed right down and finished in usual time of about 21 mins. But I was in bits for ages after, wheezing like a good thing for half hour or so till I dug out an old inhaler for some help.

I'm mid 40's, 6ft and nearly 14stone. Desk job, playing golf is about the bulk of my exercise but thats gone again now. I was asthmatic as a kid but over the last 15 years or so it is not something I even think about and it is only when I come down with a rare chest infection that it might kick off a little. I used to put a lot of it down to the smoking ban, not that I ever was a smoker, but I certainly noticed the difference when the ban kicked in and people stopped blowing it in my face over a few pints. I read recently about excercise induced asthma which might make more sense as I guess I stopped playing football and being properly active in my mid 20's, around the same time as the ban and when I stopped having the need to constantly have my inhaler on me. I was never a runner, started on an off maybe 10 years ago or so.

As a bit of a marker, I ran 1km last week flat out. The first 300m was faster pace but then started slowing. Finished 5:37. Wheezing a lot after but I took inhaler straight away and was ok after about 5 mins or so.

Friday I did 5km. Paced myself at 6:40 for the first 2.5km or so as I wanted to push it, but I invariably slowed down after that and finished 35:40 or so. But the quicker pace had my Garmin beeping at me a good few times for high heart rate. I'm not sure if it is linked to my breathing but maybe you expert runners might give some tips.

Also HR zones is something I see on Garmin, but not something I really understand and how I should set them up and use them. My resting HR is about 70. I would regularly hit 170 when running but was tipping 180 other day. Typical after a run I would go for a little walk to warm down, 5-10 mins or so. Then it will probably take 15 mins or so till my HR drops to below 100. I don't know if any of this is normal, good, bad or indifferent. But it has got me thinking that maybe I need to concentrate on it a bit more on all of this stuff rather than just moving the legs at snails pace.

PS the goal is 5km in 30 mins..... can I do it? I think I did it once on a treadmill in the early days.

Annie get your Run

There's a thread here. Have a read through that, this The Basics Post MurphD is also a must read.

Yes you can do it. Along with HR training you need to slow.right.down when you're doing your day to day runs. This will allow you to go further and longer. If your goal is 5k in 30 mins there are definitely some basic plans for new runners out there. Hal Higdon is a good one although I don't know if he does a beginners 5k. For now, you could go out for a run 3 days a week, leaving a days rest between each one (or more). Do two shorter runs and a slightly longer run at the weekend. Just for now while your body gets used to regularly running (don't build up too much too quickly). Once you've done that for 5/6 weeks you could look at a beginners plan.

davegilly

If you have a garmin watch then there should be a beginners 5K training plan on it. Identical stats to you, mid 40s, no exercise other than golf since i was 21 - never ran. Started the garmin plan back last summer and ran first 5K in October at 28:56. Down to 24 mins now and running 10K under 55 mins. Just started training for first triathlon in the summer.

Its easily done, follow the plan and you'll be grand. One thing I would suggest though is getting a HRM strap - cheapos on Amazon will do the job grand - as the one on your wrist isnt great and cant be trusted.

Seve OB

I've been meaning to update this thread as I wanted to use it as some sort of motivation for myself as I find it hard to get off my ass. Turns out thanks to davegilly I got all the motivation I needed on my Garmin.

Anyway, going to fire through a quick update of where I'm at and how I got here.

After I started this thread I went out and did a 5 mile run/walk. Managed to break the hour by a few seconds. But I had my orthotic insoles in a new pair of runners. They are not a good fit in the new runners and I was properly blistered. I've been running without the orthotics since, probably not a good idea as I am very flat footed, but at 44, I only got them a few years ago so am used to being without them all my life. A few days later I did the 3km block in 20 mins and was very happy with that.

But then I signed up to the Garmin plan, I've never done anything like this before but have to say I find it great, I'm now five weeks into it (11 week plan) and I've only missed one of the sessions. When I signed up and told it I want to complete 5km in 30 mins I could hear it laughing at me as it suggested that might be a bit ambitious! It is great the way it basically works everything out for you and as you do the sessions, the watch buzzes and tells you what you need to be doing. I've been on 4 sessions a week but it is upping to 5 from next week.

Ceepo

Keep up the good work.
Running is as addictive as golf. But it is probably a bit more linear in progression, and probably notbas frustrating
I say this as someone fairly new to golf before it closed down...
Love to get back out for a game, until I slice off the 1st tee, duff the 2nd shot, duck hook the 3rd, hack it onto the green and 3 putt.. Consider throwing the putter at the bag, (deep breathe) before stomping to the 2nd tee to repeat it all again.
At least with running you will have improved after the 12 weeks, golf on the other hand.....

Seve OB

Ceepo wrote: »

Keep up the good work.
Running is as addictive as golf. But it is probably a bit more linear in progression, and probably notbas frustrating
I say this as someone fairly new to golf before it closed down...
Love to get back out for a game, until I slice off the 1st tee, duff the 2nd shot, duck hook the 3rd, hack it onto the green and 3 putt.. Consider throwing the putter at the bag, (deep breathe) before stomping to the 2nd tee to repeat it all again.
At least with running you will have improved after the 12 weeks, golf on the other hand.....

Thanks for that. I had to stop my update there yesterday, little one broke her leg at the weekend and is demanding a lot of attention. I'll get back to it later on.

Give me a game of golf any day though I am not a fan of the running and I don't think I'll ever be as good at running than I am at golf.... gimme a 3 putt any day
I'm not sure I find it addictive to be honest. There have been a few times when I just didn't want to go out and just pushed the session a day or 2. Other times I have forced myself. TBH hitting my goals on the Garmin is keeping me going. The training plan has a confidence indicator as you can see from the attached and when I started it was mid green, so I'm certainly trending in the right direction.

Seve OB

right, need to update. I've just started week 7. I missed one training session in the first week, but threw in a 5k run that weekend, so other than shifting a few sessions to different days, I've pretty much stuck to the plan..... well, I thought I was sticking to the plan, see below where I've been going wrong.

Taking inhaler before I run seems to be helping as I've had little to no wheezing and the little has only come when I've pushed it, eg the recent tempo run. I've had no blisters thankfully but the bones were quite sore and I felt mild shin splints in early weeks, taking baths helped and I was not feeling the pinch as much till the last week where the bones have been sore again.

It started with what they call a benchmark run which was a 2 minute warm up and a flat out 5 minute run then 2 minute warm down. I was absolutely wrecked after this. managed .85km in the 5 minutes. Since then each week has been the same, with distances being upped a little here and there. most sessions involve a 2 minute warm up and warm down. Distances are odd, 1.61, 2.4, 3.22, 4.83 km... seems to be miles. this is a summary of what I've done. times include the warm ups and cool downs

Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4 Week 5 Week 6 Week 7
Tempo run
.4km @ 75%
0.81km @ race pace 6:00
.4km @ 75% 10:36
Run
2 min warm up
2 min warm down 2.41km 19:21 3.22km 24:33 4km 31:08 4.83km 37:16 4.83km 35:27 4.83km 35:27
Tempo run
.81km @ 75%
1.61km @ race pace 6:00
.81km @ 75% 22:21 22:03 21:26 20:48 22:04
Steady state run
2 min warm up
Run @ 7:15-7:35
2 min warm down 4.83km 40:32 missed, did a 5km @ weekend 33:51 4.83km 39:04 4.83km 39:08 4.83 km 38:45 6.44km 53:00
Easy run
2 min warm up
run @ easy pace
2 min warm down 3.22km 26:15 3.22km 25:02 3.22km 26:17 3.22km 26:05 3.22km 24:22 3.22km 35:07


I've pretty much stuck to the plan and kept my times close enough in line with what the plan says, some a bit quicker if I could and some a bit slower because I just couldn't. I was taking it easy on the "easy run", as in I wasn't trying to go fast, looking for 7:30 km or so and a little quicker if I was going OK. But that is not what it means and as can be seen with my most recent "Easy Run" I have made an adjustment. That send my confidence needle back into the green

First a bit of good news. I can run without stopping for walk breaks In the last 2 weeks I've set a new mile record twice, it now stands at 9:15. I've also set a 5km record @32:34

I haven't been paying attention to my HR while running, but I do know it gets quite high. I feel I have been improving at times, as in running better with lower avg HR but then it just shoots back up the next run. The Garmin has (as I'm sure is a standard) a few HR zones based on Max HR. So for me this is supposed to be my zone chart and Garmin have names for each zones

Warm Up 88 - 105bpm
Easy 106-122 bpm
Aerobic 123-140 bpm
Threshold 141-157 bpm
Maximum >157 bpm


Most of my running tends to be in the Max zone then threshold. This was something I kinda knew I need to work on & I know Annie posted a thread link earlier which might help me (haven't read it yet but I will). But the last 3.22km easy run was boring as hell. I found it difficult to keep my HR low as I was picking up speed. I'll stick with it though for the next few weeks as I have read this is where I should be concentrating my training.

Seve OB

Bit of a moan, my Garmin is a Vivoactive 3. A super watch, but I've always found it is not as good as my old Forerunner when it comes to running. GPS stats are definitely out, I've read of others with similar issues. The pace is not always correct, I've picked up speed and my watch tells me I'm slowing down and vice versa. It's like there is a delay in it and I know it has me running slightly further distances that what it is telling me. It not a big deal, but when it comes to pacing myself, it's not as good as it could be. I'd use the Forerunner but it doesn't link to the training plan.

Also running in the dark can be a pain because the backlight is supposed to glow when I flick my wrist but most of the time it doesn't.... roll on the bright evenings

I'm considering investing in a new Forerunner/fenix.

Seve OB

This is an example of a typical run. HR is very high. My average has come down since I've started, not by much though.



Was able to control it on recent Steady State run by concentrating but maybe I should be pushing for more in the green?



Discovered this worrying stat last week. My VO2 Max which is supposed to be reasonable accurate as I do use a HR Chest Strap with my Garmin.



This though is even more concerning, I would have thought it should be increasing with training and not falling. let's hope the curve is about to start trending in the right direction from here.

davegilly

Are you using a HR chest strap? If so then your zones are all wrong. Any more than a few minutes in Zone 5 and you will collapse from exhaustion so spending huge percentages of a run in that zone means either your HR monitor is not working properly or your zones are wrong. You need a chest strap for reliable readings.

To calculate your zones properly you need to know your max heart rate or your lactic threshold. I don’t know if your watch does it or not but there is a handy LTR test on Garmin watches that can calculate your LTR, dunno how accurate it is in reality but the zones it’s given me are pretty good as far as I can make out. There are a number of tests you can do also to try and find out max heart rate or a close derivative of it if you google them.

My zones are setup then as Zone 1 is 58-72%. Zone 2 is 72-79%. Zone 3 is 79-85%. Zone 4 is 85-94% and Zone 5 is 94-100% of Max HR of which mine is 182 (46 and no exercise for >20 years until last summer)

Zone 5 is only ever reached when I’m at max capacity for the last K or so of a 5K time trial and almost ready to pass out.

Most of your training should be in Zone 2 with some training in Zone 3/4 once a week to help build speed. This is what I’ve always been told anyway and it’s been working for me. I’m about 7-8 months ahead of you on this - it’s confusing and frustrating to begin with but once you get going with it then it’s all good. The shin/knee/back etc pain all goes away as well in time!! If you’re looking to get a forerunner and also want it for golf then the 945 is the job. I have one and and the amount of info it provides is mind boggling. Plus it has the LTR test on it as well which is very helpful starting out.

Seve OB

Yes was considering the 945
I do have the chest strap. I have used the chest strap linked to my old forerunner 410 and compared it with the wrist HR readings of the vivoactive. Same runs, lots of them, one watch on each arm, nearly no difference between them.
Since I started this plan I’m not bothering with the 410 as it doesn’t link to the training plan.

Will have to look at the zones. I didn’t set them, Garmin defaults I suppose. Max HR 220-44 is 176. Ok I know there maybe more scientific ways of getting this but it surely can’t be much higher.

In zone 2 last week I genuinely would have been quicker if I was having a stroll but I tried to run as I have read that it is better to use a run style even if walking is quicker.

Id be a bit of a believer that it’s not a real workout unless you sweat. I won’t be sweating in zone 2 as it is so can’t see the point. I’ll crunch the numbers shortly

Unknownability

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes was considering the 945

The 945 would be incredible overkill for what you are doing.

Have a look at the older forerunners.

Seve OB

Unknownability wrote: »

The 945 would be incredible overkill for what you are doing.

Have a look at the older forerunners.

What would you recommend?

davegilly

Unknownability wrote: »

The 945 would be incredible overkill for what you are doing.

Have a look at the older forerunners.

I agree but if you want golf on it as well then you're pretty much limited to the Vivoactive, 935/945 or Fenix range

Seve OB

davegilly wrote: »

I agree but if you want golf on it as well then you're pretty much limited to the Vivoactive, 935/945 or Fenix range

That’s what I was thinking.
I don’t think the golf ones are any good for running other than the basic stuff I would have on the vivo.

Reg'stoy

Seve OB wrote: »

Bit of a moan, my Garmin is a Vivoactive 3. A super watch, but I've always found it is not as good as my old Forerunner when it comes to running. GPS stats are definitely out, I've read of others with similar issues. The pace is not always correct, I've picked up speed and my watch tells me I'm slowing down and vice versa. It's like there is a delay in it and I know it has me running slightly further distances that what it is telling me. It not a big deal, but when it comes to pacing myself, it's not as good as it could be. I'd use the Forerunner but it doesn't link to the training plan.

Also running in the dark can be a pain because the backlight is supposed to glow when I flick my wrist but most of the time it doesn't.... roll on the bright evenings

I'm considering investing in a new Forerunner/fenix.

Make sure to connect your watch to your home wifi every now and again to update it, friend of mine had a similar issue and when I checked their watch (settings and then about) it showed that her GPS settings EPO was not current.

Seve OB wrote: »

What would you recommend?

If the watch is going to be an everyday fashion item and you can afford them, the fenix watches are great looking, thing is they are heavy and on smaller wrists look big. Another friend has the 45 which does everything they want running and swimming wise, not pretty so (for me) not an everyday watch.
I personally have a 645, Garmin pay and music was the deal breaker for me, you can pick one up for around €250 currently but it is an end of range watch so won't be getting any extras from Garmin.

Unknownability

Do you listen to music while running?

Seve OB

davegilly wrote: »

My zones are setup then as Zone 1 is 58-72%. Zone 2 is 72-79%. Zone 3 is 79-85%. Zone 4 is 85-94% and Zone 5 is 94-100% of Max HR of which mine is 182 (46 and no exercise for >20 years until last summer)

Where did you get these zone ranges? Should I just copy yours...... I’m guessing not, but not sure what I should set them at.
Garmin has them set
Zone 1 50-60
Zone 2 60-70
Zone 3 70-80
Zone 4 80-90
Zone 5 90-100

Resting HR is 55. I feel this has come down as I’m pretty sure it used to be well over 60, closer to 70 perhaps

Seve OB

Unknownability wrote: »

Do you listen to music while running?

Have the music sorted, phone or iPod so not fused if the watch has it. TBH even if it does, I’m unlike to use it. Do use (the odd time) the Garmin pay facility though so that’s good to have

davegilly

Seve OB wrote: »

Where did you get these zone ranges? Should I just copy yours...... I’m guessing not, but not sure what I should set them at.
Garmin has them set
Zone 1 50-60
Zone 2 60-70
Zone 3 70-80
Zone 4 80-90
Zone 5 90-100

Resting HR is 55. I feel this has come down as I’m pretty sure it used to be well over 60, closer to 70 perhaps

Can't remember where exactly I came across them but I do know I had it researched for a long time before coming up with these!! I know now they are pretty accurate for me for running - I have different zones for cycling and swimming - the Garmin zones seem to be just off the cuff numbers rounded so I wouldn't bother with them to be honest. You can copy the zone percentages of course, as I said, I'm pretty confident they are fairly accurate for running but nothing is completely exact and if you google it you will see there is no "correct" answer to this. If your max HR is correct then they should work for you too I would say.

However without your max heart rate or LTR then it doesn't matter how you setup your zones, they're wrong anyway!! I'm pretty sure your resting HR is wrong too, it seems too low considering you're reasonably unfit in the grand scheme of things. My VO2 Max is 49 which is quite a bit higher than yours but my resting HR is 59 and you said you're age is mid 40's as well? Maybe it is right, I don't know enough about it, I just presumed the lower your resting HR was then the fitter you were but maybe not?

As for the Zone 2 training, take it from me, it works. It takes time though and it's perfectly normal to have to walk some of the run to keep your HR in Zone 2 and some days a lot of the run ends up walking which is hard to understand. I got very frustrated doing this early days but I'm a stubborn bugger and kept at it and can now run under 6 minutes per Km in Zone 2 and can max out at an approx 22 min 5Km which I'm absolutely delighted with. Zone 2 training will prevent injury also so you can keep tra dining rather than be injured every second week!

Seve OB

Yes I’m 44

My resting HR is taken from Garmin Connect which is basically fed from the wrist HR on my vivoactive worn all the time. Maybe I need to do a proper resting HR test to get a correct reading. But maybe it doesn’t matter that much as I don’t think you use the resting HR to calculate your zones.

Thanks for your insight though, it definitely helps and I am now going to look into getting the zones set up properly, I’ll do my homework rather than just piggy backing your zone %’s.

I will continue with the last 4 weeks of the current training plan (come to far at this stage not to) but I am going to slow it down on some of the runs. After that, I’m going to set up a HR based training plan.

davegilly

Some good info here on Zone 2 training and why - https://youtu.be/ppU_ODUX7ic

Seve OB

davegilly wrote: »

Some good info here on Zone 2 training and why - https://youtu.be/ppU_ODUX7ic

10:14... this is useless

That’s a good video for starting out, but I still don’t understand the science of running slow and having to walk haha.

Actually been looking at some of his stuff. Was going to use his calculator but it’s weird and complicated and the results I was getting were not far off what I got by following this.

https://www.myprocoach.net/calculators/hr-zones/

Annie get your Run

You really need to go and do a proper max HR test. Anything you're doing without that is a waste of time. Don't rely on the general formula.

Once you do that you can start training properly and you'll know what pace is the right one for easy, and yes, running most runs at your easy pace/zone 2 is really important if you want to do this properly.

Seve OB

Annie get your Run wrote: »

You really need to go and do a proper max HR test. Anything you're doing without that is a waste of time. Don't rely on the general formula.

Once you do that you can start training properly and you'll know what pace is the right one for easy, and yes, running most runs at your easy pace/zone 2 is really important if you want to do this properly.

Yes I’ve been thinking that alright. Can you recommend a good way of doing it? There just seems so many ways of doing it. I was going to try get down to the Phoenix park over the weekend and run up and down the hill at the magazine fort a few times to work it out, and thoughts on this?

For the moment, I’ve reviewed my recent runs and see I hit 183 a few days times and 186 once. High 170s is not uncommon late on a long run. I’ve stuck it in at 183 for the moment to give me something better that what I had.

Ceepo

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes I’ve been thinking that alright. Can you recommend a good way of doing it? There just seems so many ways of doing it. I was going to try get down to the Phoenix park over the weekend and run up and down the hill at the magazine fort a few times to work it out, and thoughts on this?

For the moment, I’ve reviewed my recent runs and see I hit 183 a few days times and 186 once. High 170s is not uncommon late on a long run. I’ve stuck it in at 183 for the moment to give me something better that what I had.

180 - your age is cock. Everyone is individual.
If you have seen 186, why would you use 183?

The best way I find for getting your max HR, is 3 to 4 x 800, done after a warm up of course and when you are well rested.

As you are fairly new to running, id recommend 3 x 800, on the flat.
1st one should be hard but controlled then take 90 sec recovery, 2nd one a bit harder but also controlled 3rd one, 1st 200 should be very hard next 300 hard controlled with the last 300 at max effort.
Stop your watch and give yourself a clap on the back, job done. Nice handy cool down.
The % guide of HR posted earlier is fairly good.
Work out your own zones from that and you're pretty sorted.
Re resting HR, again you're individual, so there's no point in comparing yours to someone else's.

Annie get your Run

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes I’ve been thinking that alright. Can you recommend a good way of doing it? There just seems so many ways of doing it. I was going to try get down to the Phoenix park over the weekend and run up and down the hill at the magazine fort a few times to work it out, and thoughts on this?

For the moment, I’ve reviewed my recent runs and see I hit 183 a few days times and 186 once. High 170s is not uncommon late on a long run. I’ve stuck it in at 183 for the moment to give me something better that what I had.

Ceepo's advice above is spot on, make sure you do a nice long warm up, couple of miles jogging, if you can breathe through your nose for chuncks of this you're at the right pace. Then get into the 800s.

ger664

Seve OB wrote: »

That’s a good video for starting out, but I still don’t understand the science of running slow and having to walk haha.

Quoting Hadd "you get more out of a tube of toothpaste if you squeeze it from the bottom up"

Seve OB

Ceepo wrote: »

180 - your age is cock. Everyone is individual.
If you have seen 186, why would you use 183?

Fair point. I guess I don't know enough and I was just wary of a bogus spike. I got a spike 2 weeks back 234 which was clearly an error. My true max is most likely more than 186 as I have read about people having to lie down for a while after testing their limit and I've never been like this. I suppose I was also considering the 220-age craic (which I've read enough about now to know is useless) and was thinking could a 44 year old really have max HR of 190 odd!

Thanks for the tips on the max HR test. I will do this but not yet. I had considered doing it this weekend but I was not rested nor was I in the mood to do it! I'll wait a few weeks before I go at it because rightly or wrongly I've just finished week 7 of my training plan so I'm going to see it out first. For the last 4 weeks of the plan I'm going to stick in 190.

Good also to get the feedback on the % guide thanks. I'll stick with this and just work on the Max HR.

Seve OB

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Make sure to connect your watch to your home wifi every now and again to update it, friend of mine had a similar issue and when I checked their watch (settings and then about) it showed that her GPS settings EPO was not current.

I update it regularly.
It’s weird, overall the maps on a run don’t be to far off the mark but as I say when I look at comparisons, there can be about 100m difference in a 5k run.
What is more annoying though is the pace. It jumps all over the shop. Without fail when I start, it will say something daft like 12min/km pace or even worse but it tumbles down..... slowly, maybe a minute or 2. Most runs I’m doing now have a warm up of 2 mins. The other day I was past the warm up and had started running and had a nice rhythm going. Watch tells me I’m doing something like 8:30km pace, I knew I was going faster so didn’t break pace. Then I look down and I’m doing 6:30 pace..... few seconds later I’m doing 7:30 pace.

I’ve taken to using the average lap (set as 1km) pace as a guide, but even that jumps and is not always reliable till I get well into the lap.

Up till now I was looking at the pace and upping or downing my pace accordingly (even though I kinda knew it felt wrong) but that was just really ****ing up my runs, I was all over the shop. I still wouldn’t really be able to gauge my pace when running, though I now realise not to react to what is a bad read on the watch.

Reports are vivoactive 3 is supposed to be very good at the gps, but I’m clearly having issues which is why I’m considering an upgrade.

Edit: just found a setting to change to GPS + Glonass so I’ll see if that makes a difference

Annie get your Run

Seve OB wrote: »

I update it regularly.
It’s weird, overall the maps on a run don’t be to far off the mark but as I say when I look at comparisons, there can be about 100m difference in a 5k run.
What is more annoying though is the pace. It jumps all over the shop. Without fail when I start, it will say something daft like 12min/km pace or even worse but it tumbles down..... slowly, maybe a minute or 2. Most runs I’m doing now have a warm up of 2 mins. The other day I was past the warm up and had started running and had a nice rhythm going. Watch tells me I’m doing something like 8:30km pace, I knew I was going faster so didn’t break pace. Then I look down and I’m doing 6:30 pace..... few seconds later I’m doing 7:30 pace.

I’ve taken to using the average lap (set as 1km) pace as a guide, but even that jumps and is not always reliable till I get well into the lap.

Up till now I was looking at the pace and upping or downing my pace accordingly (even though I kinda knew it felt wrong) but that was just really ****ing up my runs, I was all over the shop. I still wouldn’t really be able to gauge my pace when running, though I now realise not to react to what is a bad read on the watch.

Reports are vivoactive 3 is supposed to be very good at the gps, but I’m clearly having issues which is why I’m considering an upgrade.

Edit: just found a setting to change to GPS + Glonass so I’ll see if that makes a difference

Don't look at your watch so much when you're running. Most of your runs should be 'easy' and you need to learn to do these by feel. Make sure you can hold a conversation (talking to yourself is highly recommend!!) And / or practice some nose breathing throughout the run, that will bring your pace to where it should be. Overreliance on a watch that may or may not be right is not helpful.

Seve OB

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Don't look at your watch so much when you're running. Most of your runs should be 'easy' and you need to learn to do these by feel. Make sure you can hold a conversation (talking to yourself is highly recommend!!) And / or practice some nose breathing throughout the run, that will bring your pace to where it should be. Overreliance on a watch that may or may not be right is not helpful.

So do you breath through your nose when running? I would normally be breathing through mouth. Might be part of my problem

Annie get your Run

Seve OB wrote: »

So do you breath through your nose when running? I would normally be breathing through mouth. Might be part of my problem

I try, or at least I try during sections of my easy runs. It slows me down and lowers the heart rate. Don't overthink it though, just use it as a guide every now and then to make sure you're not going to fast when you should be running easy. Basically, just go and run at a pace you can talk or breath slowly and easily at.

Seve OB

I’m probably going to sound like some sort of alien now having just landed on earth trying to figure out what is natural to humans!!!!
Been trying to breath through my nose over the last week and am finding it very hard. I seem to naturally breath through my mouth. It’s taking a lot of concentration to inhale through my nose instead. I’m then breathing out through my mouth because it’s easier. Is that good or bad?
Invariably I’ve drifted back to mouth breathing though as the run goes on and I stop thinking about it
I’ll keep trying, but any tips greatly appreciated please.

In other news I was out the other night, got really pissed off when I knew I should be finished but had to continue for a while. Mapped it after. Watch had me do about 250m more than I actually should have to complete a 3.22 km session. If I’m doing an odd run here and there, so what, it’s no big deal. But I’m getting into in now haha and it’s frustrating.

So I bought a Fenix 6s Pro

Annie get your Run

Seve OB wrote: »

I’m probably going to sound like some sort of alien now having just landed on earth trying to figure out what is natural to humans!!!!
Been trying to breath through my nose over the last week and am finding it very hard. I seem to naturally breath through my mouth. It’s taking a lot of concentration to inhale through my nose instead. I’m then breathing out through my mouth because it’s easier. Is that good or bad?
Invariably I’ve drifted back to mouth breathing though as the run goes on and I stop thinking about it
I’ll keep trying, but any tips greatly appreciated please.

In other news I was out the other night, got really pissed off when I knew I should be finished but had to continue for a while. Mapped it after. Watch had me do about 250m more than I actually should have to complete a 3.22 km session. If I’m doing an odd run here and there, so what, it’s no big deal. But I’m getting into in now haha and it’s frustrating.

So I bought a Fenix 6s Pro

Forget what I said about the nose breathing (or research it, google will help with that). I was only trying to reiterate that you need to be running slowly for your easy runs, one way to do that is to make sure you can hold a conversation with someone, another is to slow down your breathing. It's not meant to be complicated, don't overthink it.

shotgunmcos

+1 dont worry about it... just breath. If you can chat or sing you are running easy enough and breathing as you should be

Seve OB

Well I have been meaning to post here for a while. I finished the plan. I found actually having it on the watch/app as opposed to just writing down a plan made it much easier to stick with as you are always notified about the daily schedule and it certainly motivated me. I completed every day, no skips.
I just want to throw this up here, probably more for myself if I want to look back at my progress.
Week 7-10 are here, pretty much similar schedule, got to grips with the HR stuff in this section after previous comments and I actually feel that even though I my HR set up was all over the place before, once I tweaked it, I wasn't actually that far off what I should be at.

Week 7 Week 8 Week 9 Week 10
Tempo run
Tempo run
1/4 @ 75%
1/2 @ race pace 6:00
1/4 @ 75% 1.61km 10:36 3.22km 20:50 3.22km 21:28 4.83km 21:28
Run
2 min warm up
2 min warm down 4.83km 35:27 4.83km 35:03 4.83km 35:22 4.83km 34:09
Tempo run
.81km @ 75%
1.61km @ race pace 6:00
.81km @ 75% 21:15 22:41 21:22 21:51
Steady state run
2 min warm up
Run @ 7:15-7:35
2 min warm down 6.44km 50:52 6.44km 53:38 8.05km 62:53 8.05km 61:11
Easy run
2 min warm up
run @ easy pace
2 min warm down 3.22km 28:44 3.22km 26:04 3.22km 25:33 3.22km 26:49


The Last Week was a little different
It started with a Speed repeats session.
Warm up for 1.61 km and then 4*800m with a 30 seconds recover between each, followed by a cool down of 1.61 km.

Man I gave it everything, it was bloody tough. Possibly the hardest run I've ever done.

then 3 midweek runs of 1.61 km each with the usual 2 mins warm up and cool down.
repeats|47:33
run 1|13:11
run 2|13:33
run 3|13:21

then I took a couple of days off before heading to the Porterstown Parkrun track. 3 Laps of the park is a a good test with some hills thrown in to make it a proper 5k.
Had my daughter with me on her bike and she just took off so when I turned the watch on I didn't give the GPS a chance to kick probably ended up doing about 100m further.... but all good.

The first km I was fast, to fast. 5:53 and that probably included my extra 100metres. The extra effort over the first km or so took a bit of a toll on the rest of the run, but I managed to hover on the 6min/km pace the next 2 km. Into the 4KM I started to feel it, I still held the pace but it was hard.
Last KM, I was slipping. It was mainly uphill, but I knew with about 400m to go it would level out and the last 200m or so was slightly downhill. I was going to miss the 30 minute goal.

A big push though and once I hit the flat section I picked up the pace and with about 250 to go I let loose and went all out sprint.

Garmin has me crossing the line at 29:53, I'll take that

Ceepo

Good man, fair play to you.

The One Doctor

I started running, realised how horrible it is and switched to trampolining (not rebounding) instead. Much easier on every bit of me.

Each to their own though.

Ceepo

The One Doctor wrote: »

I started running, realised how horrible it is and switched to trampolining (not rebounding) instead. Much easier on every bit of me.

Each to their own though.

Great to share your experience with all of us here in the running forum.

Seve OB

It was Easter Sunday when I got the 5km completed in my goal time. I then took a week off running but got some long brisk walks in. I kicked back off on the 10th with a neighbour and did 3km faster than I wanted at about 6:40 pace. In the 11 days since then I've tried to get into low HR Zone 2 running. Find it quite difficult to be honest, was running to fast, had to walk to get HR down, then was running to slow.... some of the earlier runs had lots of time in Zone 1, but I'm getting used to it a bit more now. Still a good bit of my time though creeping into Zone 3 when I have having to stop running. I am not totally convinced that it's going to make me faster though in the long run I will stick with it though for a few weeks and see how i get on.

I do find that going slower, trying to keep the HR down has got me concentrating more on breathing in through my nose and out through mouth. My times are slow (over 35 mins for 5k). I've gotten a good few 5km runs in, a 5 miler and last night I stepped it up to a challenging enough 10km with a few hills involved. I went out to do that with the HR training in mind but I was also determined to run it all and was targeting the steady state run pace from my plan above of between 7:15-7:30 pace. But even if the HR alert beeped I planned to make sure every KM was going to be under 8 min pace at worst. It did beep a few times, but I kept running when it did, just dropped the pace a little. When I got to the last KM, the first half was uphill and the HR alert was red hot, but I kept it as slow as possible till I got to the downhill section and with about 100m I just kicked for home. Completed in 1:16:05 (7:36 pace). 9 mins in zone 3 and the rest in zone 2 so was very pleased with that. I've not done many 10km runs, but of the few I have done, my best time is 1:13:53 back in 2012, so I reckon I could easily beat that now. I'd really like to break the hour, so might just have to make that my next goal.

Can I do 10km in under an hour? Maybe a goal of 3 months and aim for the August bank holiday or is it doable sooner?

And another question for you seasoned experts, Should I do all my runs in Zone 2? Can I do an odd pacier run? I wouldn't mind trying to set a record for my 3km block run and maybe a few fast 5km, not necessarily PB's, but maybe 90% type of pace. If it's ok to throw these kind of runs in, how often?

I'm getting out a little on the bike to and hope to more with the nice weather but will that affect my low HR training and should I be doing something similar with HR when on the bike?

Oh and golf is back next week 36 holes a week is the target

Seve OB

I have felt a lack of motivation with no plan to follow so I signed up to 10k plan last night and went out and did the benchmark run, which was the exact same as I did for the 5km, 2 mins warm up and run like Forest Gump for 5 mins and 2 minute cool down.

so last time out (3 months ago now) my warm up/cool down was slow at 8:30 pace. I ran .85km in the 5 mins. I was in bits after it.... for a good while.

last night I was fairly smashed, but felt I most definitely recovered quicker. Not only that, my warm up/down was @7:30 pace and I smashed my own 1km record and managed to complete it in just less then the 5 minutes.

My Vo2 max is now 42 (fitness age of 41), so certainly an improvement on a reading I took in early February of 36 with a fitness age of 58.

You can't see the tailored plan (or even get an idea of what is involved) until you complete the benchmark run but this new plan looks a lot more complicated with goal pace repeats, hill repeats, speed repeats. I think preferred the other one which was basically just go out and run so I'm not sure I'll stick with this one, but for now its something to work on to try and keep myself interested.

Already played golf twice

Seve OB

missed some of the runs already

but got stuck in the other day and did what they call speed repeats.

it starts out with 5 minute warm up then gets into some drills.
i get the cadence drill (i think) basically 4*30 seconds and quick short steps to build the cadence, which i found to be fairly intence but maybe i'm doing it wrong
then a acceleration glider drill, which i just can't get my head around at all.

you also have to press the lap button between each jump above, i've no idea why but it just adds to the confusion

then the speed repeats, 6*800 m at a "challenging pace but no sprinting" 5:35-5:48, which is obviously quite challenging for me. i was able to keep going for the first 4 sets mainly due to a 3 minute walk in between each, but the legs were in bits. the 5th was a challenge, heavy wind and rain weren't helping but i wasn't to bad coming in at 5:57. pushed it hard for the last set and managed the number just about @5:48. i was never sprinting in any of these. after the last walk, a gentle 7:49 pace jog for 5 minutes to cool down was tough.

in the end 9km done in just over an hour which was an all inclusive avg pace of 6:55. Jelly legs after!

need to read up more on the lap press transition and the acceleration glider drill... anyone done this before can give tips?

Seve OB

I think it’s time to wake up the sleeping giant Seve. So since the above I got a bit busier last year with work and a garden project (still not finished). Golf was a priority for my free time and running was minimal to non existent.

roll on winter and when the dark evenings arrived in November I figured I needed to occupy my time and get back to a bit of running but I couldn’t motivate myself. I was at least back playing a bit of 5 a side Astro but I needed to compliment that with some proper running because my fitness was poor. Well I finally got going and since the end of November I’ve been clocking up a reasonable amount of miles each week (between 10-18km). I did take a week off in January for a golf holiday and couldn’t motivate myself to get back for a week after that.

but now I’m back at it. Following a Garmin plan since December, again targeting Easter Sunday, this time to complete a 10km in hopefully about an hour. My best still stands at 1:13. I’m missing more runs this time, because I am feeling it, legs are tired, so I’m taking breaks. However I am quite comfortable doing the distance when rested. It’s the usual stuff, but it did start with a lot of easy runs which I was doing at low HR and was beginning to get really bored with it. Then after a fair few weeks tempo runs, steady state runs, speed repeats, did hill repeats the other day (which killed me).

what I have noticed is, I’m fitter. A good bit fitter. It didn’t take me long to get back on the horse this time around. When I run, I’m not boll0x3d after. I’m not near 1hour 10km pace, quite a bit off it. I think I’d find it hard to do 5km in 30 mins (haven’t even tried that since last years efforts).

but in amongst the training, there are moments when I’m covering 800m in say 5:20 pace. I could never do that before. Sure I can’t keep it up, but I can build on it. In fact where I used to struggle with doing more was more from a cardio point of view, now it seems that it’s more the legs.

as I build the mileage and the legs get stronger I can certainly see that I can improve my times. A year ago I really didn’t have any hope.

well, I had been meaning to resurrect this as a bit of a log for myself, so now that it’s done I hope to add weekly updates. I reckon I’ve been close to 1:09 for a 10k, but the run was not long enough (I had more in the tank and could have gone the distance). It I was sticking to plan. I think at the moment, I could do a 10km in 1:06.

my goal is Easter Sunday, break 1:05 and do my damndest to get as close to the hour mark as possible.

I think 3 times a week is as much as I can get out there to train, would like to do 4, but at the moment, the legs are not allowing it.

missed a run last night, an easy 3 miler, but I’m going to make up for it with a 5km tonight. Aim is to keep it handy but still reasonable pace, maybe zone 3, 6:45 or so pace.

now off to seek help for new gear

Seve OB

I know zone 3 is not supposed to be great for running in, but as I say, I was bored of zone 2. I have to stop to much and go quite slow.7min+ pace.

so just a test, did 5km there, zone 3 so not pushing it to my limit but still a bit of a test. Was pleased with this result.

I need to set my watch up to beep a bit better when I go high in my zones. Garmin Fenix 6 pro. All seems to happen is a screen flash, would be good to get a whisper in the ear or something (anyone help here?) ended up going a bit more in the higher zones than I wanted but still minimal enough really.

anyway keep it in zone 3 was the target and under 7 min pace. Was doing well for fist 2 kms at about 6:20 pace but settled in then and soon found that at about 6:30 I was tipping the scales into zone 4.

I stopped to walking pace every time I realised I hit zone 4+, and to be honest surprised myself that it was so little at that pace I completed.

30 mins actually looks very much more doable than I felt I was at. Might try get a park run in over next few weeks and give it a lash.

I would love to get myself to a stage where I would be able to out and run (without stopping) for 5km at zone 2 pace in under 30 mins. That has to be my ultimate goal, something I could do twice a week as a way to keep myself in shape and wouldn’t affect the golf to much …… of course I actually feel it really benefits my golf and I’m carrying clubs at the moment.

oh and new runners ordered so they will take 5 minutes of my 5km time soon 🤣

Ceepo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675597#Comment_118675597

The same way as getting new clubs takes 5 shots off your handicap 😉🤣

athlone573

I found that my "natural" running pace became easier over the course of a few months, heart rate settled down into zone 2/3,not thinking too much about breathing. It helped that I got a chest HRM and set up HR zones based on the Garmin guided test / lactate threshold (less complicated than it sounds). The default zones based on age may be way off for your individual physiology.

I think you can set up the Garmins to speak pace alerts (either from the watch speaker or via headphones), mine just decides randomly!

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675889#Comment_118675889

Have a chest strap, but going to upgrade that soon. Have the zones set up correctly and not based on the age park.

the pace alerts are working fine, get the whisper on them through the headphones, I just have to figure out how to get the zone alerts shouting at me a bit better, although maybe not possible

athlone573

The Garmin megathread would be the place to ask. But I'd suggest not stressing too much about whether you're in "zone 2"or" zone 3",just keep easy running (or follow the Garmin Coach plan) and it'll eventually work itself out.

Seve OB

So just a bit of an update on the past week

no football ☹️ I actually feel I’m getting a lot fitter through both the football and the hit of running. Carrying the golf bag is not a big slog and I’m well able for it.

anyway, the running! I was tired on the Wednesday so decided to push that run out to Thursday. It was called supersets. A warm up of 1.6 km (Garmin is annoying when they use miles for no reason other than being awkward) an all out sprint for 200m, a good fast dash for 600m and 1.6km @ close to goal pace. Then repeat this set…….. we’ll, it was dark, cold, a little rainy….. so I missed the 1.6 take it handy in the middle and went all out sprinting and was wondering when it was ever going to end!!!!! So blew my load a little and then struggled a bit to keep pace with the second set but I hung on in there. Gave the warm down 1.6km after a miss, I was wrecked

then Friday I did a tempo run. Easy pace for a mile, then three sets of a mile at 6:20-30 pace. 5 minute brisk walking in between. Last one was a struggle to make the pace but I got there. 1 more easy mile to cool down……. Jelly legs!

didn’t bother with the steady state run last night, decided it was that or an easy run tonight so went for the easy option!

have noticed legs are quite tired. Huge difference in training for 10 to a 5k. I am deffo feeling fitter

Seve OB

Well I’ve been quiet here lately. But that doesn’t mean I haven’t been running! I didn’t really stick with the training plan though as just had a fair bit of other stuff to do and timings didn’t really work out. But I went out whenever I could (couple of times a week) right up to the beginning of April ……. When I went away on hold.

from that point on the plan was out the window and while away I just went for a run whenever I got time. I had a lovely spongy running track to enjoy along with my new extremely comfortable runners. I was expecting times to be quick but I guess with very high temperatures it was an unrealistic expectation.

I had one major goal though and that was to cover the lap (just over 2.6k) in less than 15 mins. Oh I’ve been here a few times before and I think previous best was about 17 mins. I set an early pace of 15:45 or so. Then for couple of weeks runs we’re a lot easier but also longer, mostly about 5k and up to almost 12 on one occasion. I waited till nearly the last night and got to tackle it at pace for a second time. 14:38. Happy out. On last night though I had a second target in sight. A double lap in under 35…….. 34:09 nice one

these are actually slow enough times pace wise but in well over 30 degrees I think pretty good for where I am at.

now I’m also after figuring out that if I leave the Garmin coach off the Fenix and just go for a run, with headphones linked direct to the watch, it does give alerts to HR zones when you are low and high etc. I’ve just loaded my tunes onto the watch now and using that.

I’ve gone a for a few light runs in the last week since I’ve been home. I want to try 2 things. This low HR stuff, properly this time and give it a chance. Also want to get my cadence up. I’m very very low, probably average low 140’s.

so my last 2 runs were focused on both these things to set a bench mark so to speak. My 5 km lap in zone 2 (small slippage into zone 3) but able to get it back down while still running (much slower) as opposed to stopping into a walk. 9% of the run was in zone 3 and it took 35:11

i also got my cadence up quite a bit. Average of 154 and I saw a small bit green for the first time ever. Short quick strides.

last night I took on my 3km lap but was not as good at keeping HR down spending 16% in zone 3. Still not bad. But the shorter run naturally allowed me to go a little faster and my cadence was a whopping 161 avg with a lot of green in the early parts. 18:27 to complete the distance.

im going to work on faster cadence and lower HR for the next month or so and hopefully will see an improvement on the above