Julian Assange cannot be extradited - Oh yes he can...

Thelonious Monk

I think this is great news. Some of the things that were revealed by wikileaks needed to be seen. Massacring Iraqi civilians in cold blood. It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think this is great news. Some of the things that were revealed by wikileaks needed to be seen. Massacring Iraqi civilians in cold blood. It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

They say it's because of his mental health. Do you think he'd rather have his full mental capacity and be extradited or instead be mentally limited and not be extradited?

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

They say it's because of his mental health. Do you think he'd rather have his full mental capacity and be extradited or instead be mentally limited and not be extradited?

I think most people would rather anything over being extradited to the US. No doubt the yanks will appeal this they wont let it go.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think most people would rather anything over being extradited to the US. No doubt the yanks will appeal this they wont let it go.

So you would personally rather have serious health issues than be extradited to the US?

Donald Trump

They might try to do a swap. Assange for the one who killed the cyclist

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

So you would personally rather have serious health issues than be extradited to the US?

Yes! Although it's not black and white here is it, if I was Julian now I'd rather not be extradited to the US, if he thinks his health issues are bad now, imagine how bad it'd be after decades locked up in the USA.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies[/url]

It would be great news for the freedom of the press if he was extradited and not charged. The fact that he is not being extradited on health grounds has no impact on the freedom of the press (in my opinion).

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes!

So you would have rather have any kind of health issue ranging from mild to severe instead of being extradited for a crime you may be found innocent of or not charged with?

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be great news for the freedom of the press if he was extradited and not charged. The fact that he is not being extradited on health grounds has no impact on the freedom of the press (in my opinion).

Yeah I'm kind of hoping the judge is just using that as an excuse not to extradite him

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

So you would have rather have any kind of health issue ranging from mild to severe instead of being extradited for a crime you may be found innocent of or not charged with?

If he went to the US he's locked up until he dies

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

So you would have rather have any kind of health issue ranging from mild to severe instead of being extradited for a crime you may be found innocent of or not charged with?

I'm not a psychologist. But I'd imagine that getting locked up in the US wouldn't be too good for the oul' mental health anyway even if you went over 100% grand

Thelonious Monk

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm not a psychologist. But I'd imagine that getting locked up in the US wouldn't be too good for the oul' mental health anyway even if you went over 100% grand

At least you'd probably be out of office by the time he got to the US, Biden administration probably wouldn't be as harsh

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm not a psychologist. But I'd imagine that getting locked up in the US wouldn't be too good for the oul' mental health anyway even if you went over 100% grand

Of course it is (sometimes). But extradition does not mean you are convicted.

I was replying to the following:

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think most people would rather anything over being extradited to the US.

which is a general statement and not just for Assange.

Hoboo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think most people would rather anything over being extradited to the US. No doubt the yanks will appeal this they wont let it go.

The change of guard might work in his favour.

ForestFire

The judge cannot fix or go back in time to solve any mental health issue he now has.

There were two outcomes he could get today...

1) Free man in the UK, with the ability to have his health looked after.

2) Extradition to the USA where he would be held in jail for months/years pending a trail, where no doubt any issues he currently has would deteriorat faster?


Surely 1 is the best outcome he could have expected? And wanted himself?

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

So you would have rather have any kind of health issue ranging from mild to severe instead of being extradited for a crime you may be found innocent of or not charged with?

Extradited to the US specifically.

The US justice system is a farce. They will effectively charge a foreign citizen with treason against the US and they will find him guilty of something. They'll either execute or put him in high security prison (rape gangs and beatings) for the rest of his life.

I have no love for Assange, but US prison is inhumane.

Thelonious Monk

Apparently the judge was 95% in favour of extradition but didn't think it was right to send him to the US prison system given his suicide risk state, it will now go to appeal and to a higher court.
He's certainly not out of the woods yet.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Extradited to the US specifically.

Again though, I was replying to Thelonious Monk's statement where he said he would rather be mentally imbalanced than be extradited to the US, regardless of how small the crime is. I just cannot understand that logic (personally).

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Again though, I was replying to Thelonious Monk's statement where he said he would rather be mentally imbalanced than be extradited to the US, regardless of how small the crime is. I just cannot understand that logic (personally).

Jesus let it go

MFPM

Fantastic news. I wasn't expecting this result. Smack in the mouth for US imperialism, they'll appeal of course but a great result nonetheless.

Irish media started covering the story in the last 24 hours having effectively ignoring it when the hearing was taking place.

carq

a few conjugal visits from Pamela Anderson would do wonders for anyone's Mental health.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Jesus let it go

I will once you explain your logic? You would really rather have any kind of health issue, even the severe kind, than be extradited to the US for any kind of crime, even petty ones? Do you not see how bizarre that statement you made is?

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

I will once you explain your logic? You would really rather have any kind of health issue, even the severe kind, than be extradited to the US for any kind of crime, even petty ones? Do you not see how bizarre that statement you made is?

They extradite people for petty crimes? I skipped a court date while I was on my J1 for drinking in public, I haven't heard anything from them since.

ohnonotgmail

carq wrote: »

a few conjugal visits from Pamela Anderson would do wonders for anyone's Mental health.

you want to give him Hep C on top of the problems he already has?

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They extradite people for petty crimes? I skipped a court date while I was on my J1 for drinking in public, I haven't heard anything from them since.

A quick Google will tell you the answer to that is yes. :rolleyes:

There have been many instances of people being extradited for aggravated assault due to a small bar fight. Do you think such people would rather have severe health concerns than be sent to the US for trial?

If so, it's one of the most bizarre opinions I've heard on Boards in many years.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

There have been many instances of people being extradited for aggravated assault due to a small bar fight. Do you think such people would rather have severe health concerns than be sent to the US for trial?

I'm not gonna lie to you; it's a toss-up.

Considering that you could be in prison for weeks or months awaiting trial in the U.S. even for minor crimes, many people find themselves acquitted but their lives ruined anyway.

If it was a choice between that or having a health condition which could (and would) be treated and managed long-term...then I'm not sure what I would pick.

If you didn't have a mental health issue going into the US justice system, you'd sure as hell have one by the time you came out.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

A quick Google will tell you the answer to that is yes. :rolleyes:

There have been many instances of people being extradited for aggravated assault due to a small bar fight. Do you think such people would rather have severe health concerns than be sent to the US for trial?

If so, it's one of the most bizarre opinions I've heard on Boards in many years.

Ok well I'm glad I've given you something to think about today

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ok well I'm glad I've given you something to think about today

So you're not going to answer the question then?

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I'm not gonna lie to you; it's a toss-up.

Considering that you could be in prison for weeks or months awaiting trial in the U.S. even for minor crimes, many people find themselves acquitted but their lives ruined anyway.

If it was a choice between that or having a health condition which could (and would) be treated and managed long-term...then I'm not sure what I would pick.

If you didn't have a mental health issue going into the US justice system, you'd sure as hell have one by the time you came out.

I've highlighted the important words there.

There are many people who have been extradited and found innocent. There have been many people who have been extradited and only ended up with a fine or similar. And that includes non-petty crimes.

You are honestly saying that, if I present you with the option of either being extradited for a petty crime or e.g. being diagnosed with brain cancer, it would be a "toss up" of which you would prefer?

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

So you're not going to answer the question then?

I might have if you weren't so insistent and weird about it. Move on. Also Seamus above has answered.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you would have rather have any kind of health issue ranging from mild to severe instead of being extradited for a crime you may be found innocent of or not charged with?

They cited his risk of suicide as the reason.
With the threat now gone, that risk I assume is also gone.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I might have if you weren't so insistent and weird about it. Move on. Also Seamus above has answered.

If you keep avoiding the question with all of your posts, then how else can I get you to answer your question without being insistent?

The only thing I can think of is that you realised you don't agree with your original statement but don't care to admit it on the internet, would that be accurate?

Or would you like to try and tackle the question I left Seamus?

(I'm aware that this is derailing the thread slightly, but I find this logic from you fascinating.)

SouthWesterly

SouthWesterly wrote: »

They cited his risk of suicide as the reason.
With the threat now gone, that risk I assume is also gone.

We're not talking about Assange, we're talking about Thelonious Monk's general statement about extradition.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

You are honestly saying that, if I present you with the option of either being extradited for a petty crime or e.g. being diagnosed with brain cancer, it would be a "toss up" of which you would prefer?

You're moving the goal posts. Aggravated assault is not a petty crime and brain cancer is not a mental health issue.

Are you telling me that if you had the choice of being extradited to the US to be charged with armed robbery or having depression, you'd rather roll the dice in the US?

riffmongous

Hm, let's see why would anyone not want even a chance of going to prison in the US.. I wonder what the old sexual assault statistics look like..

seamus

seamus wrote: »

You're moving the goal posts. Aggravated assault is not a petty crime and brain cancer is not a mental health issue.

Are you telling me that if you had the choice of being extradited to the US to be charged with armed robbery or having depression, you'd rather roll the dice in the US?

Not moving the goalposts, I'm replying to this statement.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think most people would rather anything over being extradited to the US.

which does not mention mental health.

Do you disagree with this generalised statement by Thelonious Monk then, based on my above example?

IAMAMORON

I think it is a fudge, but I doubt he cares. He has been through hard times to get to where he is. He would not be fairly treated in the US. I would prefer to see the British Legal system accept that reality and make an appropriate judgement based on that reality. That would be real justice. But fair play to the British judge, she could easily extradite him but she has used her ability to save his ass - fair play.

To successfully appeal I would imagine the Hawks will have to prove that they can incarcerate him humanely despite his mental illness, not easy. They have 15 days.

I am delighted for him and phuck the Hawks.

manonboard

Deleted User wrote: »

If you keep avoiding the question with all of your posts, then how else can I get you to answer your question without being insistent?

Stop being creepy. If someone doesn't want to talk to you or explain something to you, just let it go. It's seriously weird you acknowledge you are being told to go away and still keep quoting them for more communication. Don't ever choose being creepy. It's never the right answer.

Thelonious Monk

manonboard wrote: »

Stop being creepy. If someone doesn't want to talk to you or explain something to you, just let it go. It's seriously weird you acknowledge you are being told to go away and still keep quoting them for more communication. Don't ever choose being creepy. It's never the right answer.

Sealioning. I wouldn't mind only it's a bloody ridiculously hypothetical situation we're talking about that really doesn't matter to the thread at all.

Calahonda52

From another thread:

For many it's simply unacceptable to be wrong on the internet so what they need is an unbeatable tactic that allows them to shut down any argument they can't win.
It's like a sort of intellectual "parking the bus".

Seems to fit the bill for much of the stuff here.

the purple tin

SouthWesterly wrote: »

They cited his risk of suicide as the reason.
With the threat now gone, that risk I assume is also gone.

It was the same with the Scottish hacker McKinnon a few years ago. He has aspergers and would always be a high suicide risk if extradited. Theresa May said it wasn't happening.

The yanks won't let it drop though and are still gunning for him.

manonboard

I'm really surprised that he was not extradited. If he was deemed not to be fit for it now, does anyone know if he will be allowed to leave the UK before the appeal is over? Do they hold you until all appeals are done?

As he is a flight risk (embassy hopping), will they keep him locked up?

The stuff i read over the years about his declining mental health has been terrible. I suspect he is a shell of who he once was. I'm delighted he has a family and partner to go back to. I hope he lets it all go and just gets on with life and regains his wellness.

I think he clearly broke many laws, but the world was more honest for it.

manonboard

manonboard wrote: »

Stop being creepy. If someone doesn't want to talk to you or explain something to you, just let it go. It's seriously weird you acknowledge you are being told to go away and still keep quoting them for more communication. Don't ever choose being creepy. It's never the right answer.

Butting in to a discussion you are not a part of is no different.

This is a discussion forum. That person is perfectly OK with replying when they can think of something to make them seem right, but then go radio silent when they realise they may be wrong. That is not what a discussion is.

political analyst

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think this is great news. Some of the things that were revealed by wikileaks needed to be seen. Massacring Iraqi civilians in cold blood. It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

Some of the men on the ground had RPGs and the Apache helicopter crewmen didn't know that there were journalists in that group of people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike#Reactions_to_the_video_footage

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

So you would personally rather have serious health issues than be extradited to the US?

he probably has serious health issues because of the isolation and the fear of the extradition that his process put him in. Thus this question is circular.

Thelonious Monk

political analyst wrote: »

Some of the men on the ground had RPGs and the Apache helicopter crewmen didn't know that there were journalists in that group of people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike#Reactions_to_the_video_footage

It was an illegal war in the first place!

MFPM

MFPM wrote: »

Fantastic news. I wasn't expecting this result. Smack in the mouth for US imperialism, they'll appeal of course but a great result nonetheless.

Irish media started covering the story in the last 24 hours having effectively ignoring it when the hearing was taking place.

Well there was Covid and BLM to talk about so nothing else was happening.

AMKC

Donald Trump wrote: »

They might try to do a swap. Assange for the one who killed the cyclist

That would be great for that family and is certainly something that the Americans and British should look into.
Do I think what Assange done was right. No not in the slightest. He exposed secrets and made our society in the west less safe. If the American military or any other Milatery committed atrocities then it was for them and the Governmant to hand out punishment to the ones who done it and none of our business.
Assange has no one to blame for his mental health problems but himself. He should be extradited

Donald Trump

AMKC wrote: »

That would be great for that family and is certainly something that the Americans and British should look into.
Do I think what Assange done was right. No not in the slightest. He exposed secrets and made our society in the west less safe. If the American military or any other Milatery committed atrocities then it was for them and the Governmant to hand out punishment to the ones who done it and none of our business.
Assange has no one to blame for his mental health problems but himself. He should be extradited

Assange provided a platform for others.

The question is where does journalism begin and spying end or vice-versa


If Assange was publishing dodgy things the Chinese or Russians might have done and was currently living in NY, I don't think the US would be responding to extradition requests for him

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

he probably has serious health issues because of the isolation and the fear of the extradition that his process put him in. Thus this question is circular.

Again, I'm not talking about Assange.

AMKC

Deleted User wrote: »

he probably has serious health issues because of the isolation and the fear of the extradition that his process put him in. Thus this question is circular.

So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.