Happy St. George's Day.

Tom Mann Centuria

To any fellow English people here, or those who just like Turkish/Greek Dragon slayers, have a good one.

Edit: Nationality of Georgey Boy changed to Turkish/Greek as per Montage of Feck.

Is the Guinness dyed red in Engerland today?

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964010#Comment_118964010

They could dye the rivers but with all the sewage in them you'd find it difficult to tell.

fryup

oh to be English.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmjnEMqHeg

Gregor Samsa

We should also not forget that it’s International Pixel-Stained Technopeasant Day.

Donald Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEjEGbAFzJU&t=195s

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242887/happy-st-georges-day

Saint George (Greek: Γεώργιος (Geórgios); died 23 April 303), also George of Lydda, was a Christian who is venerated as a saint in Christianity. According to tradition he was a soldier in the Roman army. Saint George was a soldier of Cappadocian Greek origin and member of the Praetorian Guard for Roman emperor Diocletian, who was sentenced to death for refusing to recant his Christian faith. He became one of the most venerated saints and megalomartyrs in Christianity, and he has been especially venerated as a military saint since the Crusades.

...

Cappadocian Greeks also known as Greek Cappadocians (Greek: Έλληνες-Καππαδόκες, Ελληνοκαππαδόκες, Καππαδόκες; Turkish: Kapadokyalı Rumlar)[3] or simply Cappadocians are an ethnic Greek community native to the geographical region of Cappadocia in central-eastern Anatolia,[4][5] roughly the Nevşehir Province and surrounding provinces of modern Turkey. There had been a continuous Greek presence in Cappadocia since antiquity,[6] and the indigenous populations of Cappadocia, some of whose Indo-European languages may have been closely related to Greek, (cf. Phrygian) became entirely Greek-speaking by at least the 5th century.[7] In the 11th century Seljuq Turks arriving from Central Asia conquered the region, beginning its gradual shift in language and religion. According to 1897 estimations, the sanjak of Konya had a total Greek population of 68,101 and according to Ottoman population statistics of 1914, the sanjak of Niğde had a total Greek population of 58,312 and the sanjak of Kayseri had a total of 26.590.[8] In 1923 following the genocide of the minorities of Turkey the surviving Cappadocian Greek native communities were forced to leave their homeland and resettle in modern Greece by the terms of the Greek–Turkish population exchange. Today their descendants can be found throughout Greece and the Greek diaspora worldwide.

So, I'm guessing George's day just doesn't have the same attraction or appeal as say, St Brigid's day?

Tom Mann Centuria

Happy St. George's Day for 2023 to any other English immigrants in Ireland.

Guildenstern

It never ceases to amaze me how St Georges Day for whatever reason does not have in England the resonance and stature we have for St Patrick, or for other countries, for their saints days. There is a sense it was not needed, given how dominant England was/is as other areas such as Scotland, Wales and Ireland perceived their days as part of their strive for independence/a distinct identity.

Now, it seems to have become part of the culture divide, the BBC for example much keener to remind us about Eid, than anything to do with St George. You'd struggle to find much reference to St George across much English media. All very low key.

Galwayguy35

I don't think Patrick should be our patron saint when he wasn't even Irish.

Brendan, Bridget or Malachy would have been better

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964090#Comment_118964090

Of course our rivers are pristine...oh wait... Raw sewage being discharged by 32 Irish towns into rivers and seas, EPA finds

https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/2022/10/20/only-51-of-irish-wastewater-treated-to-eu-standards-says-report/

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510340#Comment_120510340

Well Jesus wasn't Irish either nor the pope and look what we let them do to the country for centuries

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510340#Comment_120510340

St Patrick could drive , sure didn’t he drive the snakes out of Ireland.

None of the others could drive.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511167#Comment_120511167

Tbf Jesus didn't have any say in the matter, popes on the other hand...

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510222#Comment_120510222

They are all treated with affection in OWC here’s a wee mural reminding us

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510340#Comment_120510340

St George wasn't English and St. Andrew wasn't Scottish.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512843#Comment_120512843

Ok the English and Scottish can sort that out themselves.

Its our own choice I have a bit of a problem with.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511167#Comment_120511167

Centuries you say?

Up until the 19th century the church didn't own much at all.

Before that from the middle ages up until the penal laws were introduced apart from the monastery they lived in and a few chalices etc that was about it.

Did you learn any history in school at all?

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512843#Comment_120512843

And Nicole and Natalie Appleton are Canadian.

BaywatchHQ

The average citizen of the Irish Republic has more English ancestry than me despite me being from Ulster. Dublin and it's hinterlands was an English haven and the English would have mixed in with the native Irish. The GB ancestry that I have is from Scotland and even then it is mostly Scottish Gaelic.

buried

The Warrior Queen Boudica should be the patron figurehead of Britain.

There was a lady that actually successfully killed Roman invaders to her ancient ancestral homeland.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120516807#Comment_120516807

She'd be a good one but the British tend to venerate the Normans. They have no idea they have been colonised and I'd argue they still are colonised by the Normans. A shocking number of the British nobility are direct descendants of the conquering Normans of 1066. Inherited wealth for over a thousand years.

I go away with my English mates for a weekend once or twice a year. We book a big house in Northumberland and have a big weekend. We stayed in a house owned by the Percys. They own a huge amount of land and property in Northumberland including Alnwick Castle which was used in Harry Potter and Downton Abby.

They got that land from William the Conquerer, and hold it to this day. They appear in all kinds of history. Shakespeare wrote about Harry Hotspur (based on Henry Percy). Anne Boleyn was betrothed to another Henry Percy before ahead married Henry 8th. They were big figures at royal court through the centuries and pass their wealth through trusts and tax loopholes that don't apply to normal people.

Similar story with the Grosvner family who own huge parts of London.

They're colonised, and they don't even know it. They just don't know why their culture is alien to them.

Boudica led a rebellion against the governing forces in Britain at the time. That's the last thing the powerful British want the people to think about. It would give them notions.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517127#Comment_120517127

Were the Percy's not linked to the Plantaganets?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517266#Comment_120517266

They were linked to lots of them all the way down. They hung around the royal court for centuries.

The plantagenets were after 1066 so I'd imagine they were linked.

These guys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Percy

Family dynasty was founded in 1067 according to this.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517306#Comment_120517306

Like an inbred vipers nest, the lot of them.

I wonder if the Normans are embraced a bit more because of attitudes towards the Germans around WW1 and WW2.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517326#Comment_120517326

Maybe. But I doubt it. They're a quare lot.

I know they used Boudica as a symbol in WW1. They made a propaganda video where the Huns were coming to rape Boudica.

But since the collapse of the empire, think they're not inclined to invoke the image of a woman who started an uprising and almost overthrew the government.

They also don't teach about other times the normal people rose up against the government. Like The Peasants Revolt of 1381. Wat Tyler led a revolt against the government looking for very reasonable changes for the working man, and they did quite well for a while. Similar story in Peterloo massacre where the people were working like dogs and their pay was being reduced. They tried to organise (unionise in a sense) and they government did everything they could to stop them. Ended up sending the army to massacre them.

We all know the English don't know know their history. But the question is whether its by accident or design. I think its deliberate.

I think the normal British person has been convinced their history is about Kings and the nobility where they were the good guys. But in reality the upper class suppressed the working class in England as much as they did in Ireland. We knew they were the enemy, the working man in England doesn't know the nobility are his enemy.

With the strikes on at the moment, do you think it helps the government to teach the people about Boudica, the pesants revolt and Peterloo massacre, or some meaningless story about Noble Roman soldier who never actually set foot in England?

Long answer to a short question. Sorry. This topic works me up. My English friends really admire how connected Irish people feel to their country. They know they're missing out on their own history but it's really not encouraged to find out about the history of the last thousand years unless you're going to learn the births and deaths of the Kings.

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517664#Comment_120517664

I'm sure the Peasants' Revolt of 1381 and the Peterloo massacre are taught in England but people mightn't want to dwell on those incidents. I remember watching Richard Osman's House Of Games once when it was the 'I'm Terrible At Dating' round (where you had to guess the year an event happened), and once it was about the Peasants' Revolt. I guessed 1378, so 3 years out (even though it's obviously not taught on the Irish History syllabus) but the nearest any of the 4 contestants got was over 400 years out. I know that's only anecdotal and on a small number of people but, I mean...400 years!

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517950#Comment_120517950

Yeah I'd say ite more likely an Irish person would know about the pesants revolt than an English person because its the kind of history we prefer. We like history about the underdog, the oppressed fighting back against the oppressor. The English aren't taught in that kind of history. They all know how many wives Henry 8th had and they ryme about whether they were beheaded, died, divorced or survived. But they're not taught about the history of the common english man. It would give them ideas (look at how the French treat their governments).

Anecdotally, my friends are politically informed, some are actively involved in politics and our job requires certain level of political insight into the day to day events in Parliament. But I would bet the house that none of them know much about the pesants revolt or Peterloo or even why they see Guy Fawkes as the azzhole in the story.

They would be a lot happier if they knew their history and their culture. But they don't.

whisky_galore

Ah yes a sh1te on everything English thread, we've never had one of those before.

I guess it helps with some people's insecurities.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518634#Comment_120518634

Well, I haven't used it for sh1tting on everything English. You can use the thread for whatever you want.

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512835#Comment_120512835

Loyalists are an odd bunch, always find it funny seeing them around the world waving Irish flags on their national holiday of the country they claim they don’t want to be a part of, similar to the rugby team

First, they hate Catholic Saints, then the lazy buggers love the Irish one, to avoid a day off work (which I’m sure they definitely do …)

On another note, how seriously daft are they that they put the makey-upper narnia flag on the mural, rather than, say, the St Patrick’s Cross, from the actual Union Jack?

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242887/happy-st-georges-day

They seem to prefer celebrating birthdays of royalty and weddings of royal celebrities they were not invited to as national days, cannot complain when Ireland and elsewhere have designated days of celebration

Hoop66

It's just an excuse for tea-drinking and queueing. I went into town on Sunday & there were massive foam bowler hats everywhere, disgraceful.

ancapailldorcha

Complete non-event here for some reason. I'm sure loads of the louts infesting Wembley stadium over the weekend were shouting about it though.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518916#Comment_120518916

It's tragic that they leave celebrating their culture to the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and Tommy Robinson. The middle has almost completely abandoned its history and culture.

That said, there will be plenty of people from the middle celebrating the King's coronation. But isn't that the point I've been making? They think their culture and history is all about royalty and the nobility. Hard to get them to celebrate anything to do with the common man.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519002#Comment_120519002

It is but we are where we are. 99% of people who wave England flags are people I'd cross the road to avoid. As you say, it's sad. I can't think of any other modern Western country who's flag would inspire the same revulsion in me.

People will indeed celebrate the King's ascension but after that, normal scheduling will resume.

The thing with this country is that it's very individualistic. The NHS and the monarchy are about the only unifying things I can name here. Ireland felt much more conformist to me but here, it's much more about doing your own thing and leaving others to do the same. I would argue that there's not much of a "common man" if indeed there is one at all.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519217#Comment_120519217

Ah, I mean the common man as working-middle and middle class people. Not a full time football hooligan and not the upper class. The vast majority of the country.

Those people are totally disconnected from their history and culture because its all framed in the actions of Kings, Lords and Sirs. The middle of the country don't have an easily accessible history of people like themselves.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519289#Comment_120519289

I know what you meant. I was just saying that I don't think there are unified working and middle classes here any more. You've got stuff like divisions over Brexit, climate change, age, location, ethnicity and so on....

As for history, I'm not so sure. The way it's taught in schools seems to be quite dreadful but I find towns and cities here packed with opportunities to learn about local history. It's there but a lot of people don't seem to bother.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519332#Comment_120519332

There are plenty of dicisions between people but I'd wager something that unites the middle is their ambivalence towards history (apart from 2 world wars and one world cup).

I'm always surprised how my friends are fairly curious about most things and fairly well informed on contemporary issues, but have little interest in history.

A personal hypothesis of mine is that people who are most afraid of immigration eroding their culture, are the least informed on their history and least likely to practice their own culture. In other words their own ignorance is the biggest threat to their culture.

My mates don't know any of their local folklore, dancing, or pretty much any of the other traditions beyond football and rugby league. Maybe they're just dopes but it think it's pretty common in England.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518718#Comment_120518718

"Well, I haven't used it for sh1tting on everything English."

True - but you haven't made a bad start.

"You can use the thread for whatever you want."

And you certainly have.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520365#Comment_120520365

No idea what you're point is. Anything to contribute to the thread?

indioblack

"They would be a lot happier if they knew their history and their culture. But they don't."

That's 56 million people described. An illogical blanket statement.

No quantifying, no exclusions.

They don't know their history and their culture. That's it. That's them.

Everyone of them.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520327#Comment_120520327

So let’s get this straight. You think British people should choose the aspects of culture that you think they should. How dare football mean so much to them.

you have a problem with people regarding the royalty as part of their culture but no problem if it was folklore and leprechauns.

there is an incredible arrogance and lack of perception in many recent posts here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521242#Comment_120521242

Ironically enough, it's the emergence of a sort of mean-spirited and close-minded nationalism that was long associated with the worst of John Bullism.

I'll leave the theory behind why that is happening to the politics forums...

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520327#Comment_120520327

A personal hypothesis of mine is that people who are most afraid of immigration eroding their culture, are the least informed on their history and least likely to practice their own culture. In other words their own ignorance is the biggest threat to their culture.

My mates don't know any of their local folklore, dancing, or pretty much any of the other traditions beyond football and rugby league. Maybe they're just dopes but it think it's pretty common in England.

On this, I'd have to agree. It's a recurring theme that people here are appallingly misinformed about their own history. Then you've the twats in government trying to rewrite history for their own ends.

The whole xenophobia thing seems to be rooted in a deep insecurity about themselves more than anything else. A lot of them openly scorn any type of education or self-improvement, vote for their own electoral oblivion and then are surprised when leopards eat their faces. Reality has a liberal bias as they say.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521242#Comment_120521242

How many leprechauns have been accused of child molestation?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521155#Comment_120521155

I think you could read a little bit of nuance into it. But in case you need it spelled out, then yes. I'm sure some of them are deeply invested in the history of the common English people. But by and large, yes, they're deeply ignorant of their history and culture.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521242#Comment_120521242

Ah. You seem to have missed my point almost entirely.

There's notting wrong with knowing the names and dates of birth and death of monarchs and the number of wives Henry 8th killed or divorced. But it's a pretry narrow and deep (and boring) vein of their history. And more to the point, its a million miles away from the lives of the common English people at the times those Kings reigned.

The English actually have a rich history and culture which they largely ignore. Making their history all about their colonising monarchs and nobility and ignoring the history of the normal English people, alienates them from their history. And I think that's why so few of them are interested in their history, because it doesn't tell the story of what life would be like for people like them at different times in history.

It also brushes over the fact that the monarchs and nobility and governments were often in opposition to the common people and often opposed changes that would have helped those people greatly. Culminating in events which most English people don't event know about like the pesants revolt and Peterloo massacre.

Ae for folklore, I personally think it's a really important part of culture and identity. It's usually uncontroversial which is nice. And it's shared stories which bring people together. Nothing wrong with any of that.

Leprechauns are a feature of Irish folklore. English folklore tends to be about hobgoblins, will o the wisp, bulls, and dragons and so on. I think they've largely lost touch with those stories, which is sad.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521337#Comment_120521337

And they are right to an extent. Theie culture is at serious risk if they dont actively learn it, practice it and teach it to the next generation. If other people who practise their culture come into england, then the native culture is vulnerable. But that's not the fault of the Poles for speaking their language and cooking their food and practicing their culture and passing it to their children. Unfortunately it's the fault of the very people who are most opposed to other cultures and don't know how to promote their own culture because they've lost touch with it.

I saw someone complain that nobody celebrates St George's day and complained that they celebrate foreigner's cultures instead. That's because those foreigners make their culture accessible and fun for others to learn about and take part in. St Patrick's and Chinese New year are obvious examples. Fun and accessible street parties for the family to come take part in. It's not about sh1tting on anyone else's culture, and it's inclusive. I've never seen anything that for St. George's day.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522235#Comment_120522235

Sure but we know that this is never going to happen. Personally, I find stuff like the Wars of the Roses, the Civil War and the Spanish Armada incredibly compelling. The problem with stuff like folklore, dances and so on is that they're a bit esoteric. I would lump stuff like Peterloo and Jarrow into the "bigger picture" stuff along with Henry VIII and Churchill.

It's ultimately easier to whine and moan but I'd say most people here think that St. George was some Englishman when he the object of a popular cult imported from the crusades (hence the English flag being St. George's cross). The same thing happened with the city of Genoa in Italy.