small roundabouts with two lanes

magicbastarder

just curious as to the rationale behind this; prompted by nearly getting caught up in a road rage incident earlier; why would a roundabout like this benefit from the approach splitting into two lanes? it's not a roundabout you'd really want to be on with another car beside you, and the road is not busy enough that the roundabout needs the extra throughput.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4458805,-6.3422038,3a,75y,142.83h,78.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0nt3wlGN0flefUBpIyeEyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

in my instance, i took the left lane on approach as i was going straight through, but the driver behind took the right lane; i don't know if he thought i was turning left off the roundabout (i hadn't indicated on approach) and didn't react well when i went straight through the roundabout and took the exit he was aiming for.

to be fair, the markings are confusing too, the arrows in both lanes allow straight on but they've not accounted for taking a right out of the roundabout with the arrow markings.

cjpm

It’s to try and get extra capacity through the roundabout at busy times. Two vehicles can wait at the yield line together as opposed to single file

brianc89

Oh I've had this dilemma a few times and I've struggled to find a consensus online.

Apply it to roundabouts with two lanes but "no arrows". To the best of my knowledge and unless the road markings state otherwise, if your exit lane is straight ahead (12 o'clock) or anywhere to the left of 12, then you should use the left lane. If you are going straight ahead (12 o'clock) or anywhere to the right of 12, use the right lane.

Basically, my understanding is you can use either lane to go straight ahead (12 o'clock). But you must obey the arrows if the road has them.

I've nearly caused road rage more than once in Roscommon town (loves its roundabouts), as I've used the right lane to go straight ahead including roundabouts where the exit is to the right of 12 o'clock. This is clearly at odds with the line of traffic queueing on the left and with the disgruntled drivers who are forced to let me merge. Just to clarify, there are no arrows on the roads / signs. I continue to do this, so someone please tell me if I'm wrong...

Allinall

If there’s only one lane exiting the roundabout, then the car in the right lane going into the roundabout will have to give way (merge) to the cars in the left lane exiting. There’s no obligation on the cars in the left lane to let you in.

Its a stupid design. If there’s only one lane exiting, then the right lane entering should be marked “right turn only”.

magicbastarder

yeah, in the example above, i assume that he thought i'd cut him off when i took my exit, but as you mention, it's up to him to merge, and i was ahead of him anyway. he lost it, drove up my tail making gestures at me for 500m or so, and then did overtake me on the next roundabout in a clearly illegal and dangerous fashion, and took extreme umbrage when i blew at him.

Effects

Sounds like he just doesn’t know how roundabouts work, like a lot of people.

magicbastarder

yep, but as mentioned, if the approach to the roundabout hadn't been split into two approach lanes (done for very little benefit) there would have been no confusion.

malinheader

Is the lane directly ahead at 12 o clock wide enough for two cars to enter and merge while heading away from the roundabout or is it a single lane

magicbastarder

It's marked explicitly with two lanes with the right lane having to merge into the left one.

Chris_5339762

Then the big question is the Walkinstown Roundabout in Dublin. I don't believe the Rules of the Road tell you what to do there !

https://goo.gl/maps/FoW69yESuPeYuPYHA

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938474#Comment_118938474

Shouldn't be a problem then, but you will always get some who think that they should be the only ones on the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939219#Comment_118939219

Equally, you get pricks who won't let you merge "into my lane". Zip merging should be more of a thing in Ireland. I find sometimes the only way to merge like in this case is force myself in. I don't give a toss to the reaction of who I get in front of.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939219#Comment_118939219

my point was that there would never have been a problem if the approach lane had not split into two for no benefit.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976838#Comment_118976838

Still should not be a problem if drivers were courteous and obliging.

Problem is everyone one now is in a mad rush to get everywhere.

AndyBoBandy

At least that roundabout has road markings going around/through it....

Without lines and 2 entrances people in lane 1 usually get half way through and then suddenly head straight for the opposite exit, completely cutting up lane 2.

I could probably make a 10 minute dash cam video of just that happening!!

KevRossi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976838#Comment_118976838

Problem isn't the road markings. It's the drivers.

As stated above the split entry and exit is to speed up traffic at busy times. That the driver doesn't know this is not the fault of the engineers. Yes, maybe they should put in some signane; left lane for left turn or straight ahead and right lane for right turn and straight ahead, but it's probably a waste of money at this stage. I've rarely seen a country with as much signage and as little heed of it.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939033#Comment_118939033

You see a gap, enter close your eyes and hope for the best!

Everyone knows that roundabout is a disaster, avoid if you can, say a prayer if you can't.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976756#Comment_118976756

Especially when they zoom up and travel along beside you as soon as you indicate.... seriously what's that about, it achieves absolutely nothing.

magicbastarder

Problem isn't the road markings. It's the drivers.

i'd both agree and disagree with you. it can be both, as in it's not an excuse for people to behave like dicks on the road, but given that the markings actually achieve shag all, they give people more of an opportunity to be a dick.

TL:DR - you can have bad road design and bad driver behaviour, one does not negate the other.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978523#Comment_118978523

The reason why so many people do this is because it is the correct way to drive straight ahead through roundabout (in the absence of instructions do do differently)

See the Rules of the Road, page 135, emphasis mine:

Going straight ahead (any exit between 6 o’clock and the 12 o’clock position)

Approach in the left-hand lane (unless road markings say otherwise) but do not indicate ‘left’ until you have passed the exit before the one you intend to take. Where traffic conditions dictate otherwise, for example a long line of traffic in the left lane signalling left or roadworks in the left lane, you may follow the course shown by the red line.

The Rules of the Road is a free download from the RSA. There’s no reason not to have a copy...

rotr-2022.pdf (rsa.ie)

JeffKenna

Looking at Google maps I can't see anything majority wrong with that roundabout, both lanes can go straight through. Seems well marked, the slip road is too short for the cars on the right hand side merging after coming off the roundabout however.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980258#Comment_118980258

No, that’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying once they are on the roundabout, they immediately take the shortest route out of the roundabout and cut across the inside lane. I’m the red line turning right, and have been cut up by the yellow car diving straight for the exit, which takes them through the red lane…

I’ll happily post some dashcam footage of this happening as I have countless examples.

JohnC.

I know what you're talking about. They take a racing line through the roundabout. I see it pretty much daily.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980854#Comment_118980854

Ah, I understand you now. My apologies. Yes, that’s pretty bad, alright, and something similar happened to me a few years ago when a guy in a rigid truck decided to cut the curve on a larger roundabout while I was turing right. I ended up driving onto to the centre of the roudabout to avoid being crushed, but he still managed to take off the front wing of the car.

When I asked him why he’d cut the lane, he said something along the lines of “but I had control of the roundabout” as an excuse, which showed a worrying lack of understanding of the rules of the road from someone driving a heavy goods vehicle.

AndyBoBandy

Thats why I think we need lane markings on every roundabout where there is more than 1 entry into said roundabout.. as otherwise people just cut right through on the racing line..

Heres some examples; (2 separate occasions in the same video)

https://youtu.be/VSUuoLgN7qQ?t=184

https://youtu.be/VSUuoLgN7qQ?t=427

It's fecking infuriating...

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982275#Comment_118982275

Some people don't understand the room it takes for some HGVS to navigate a roundabout. If I'm beside a HGV at a roundabout I always hold back a while until the roundabout is clear.

KrisW1001

As do I, but that is not what happened here.

Here’s the location: R623 - Google Maps. I’ve been sitting at those traffic-lights enough times to know that there’s enough space for two articulated lorries carrying a 40-foot containers to negotiate the roundabout side by side; I was hit by a short rigid truck.

We both entered the roundabout together, me from the right lane in a moving stream of right-turning traffic, while the truck driver from the left lane had a clear path ahead (it’s not actually “straight” ahead, the onward exit is slightly right), and so decided to make his dash for the straight-trough exit. I did hold back, but it wasn’t enough, and with the line the truck was taking and another car right up behind me, my only options were to brake suddenly and risk being tail-ended by that car, or drive up onto the central island of the roundabout to avoid being hit. When the truck did hit the front passenger-side wing of my car, nearly half of my car was already up on the central island...

hans aus dtschl

There's a lot of antics on that roundabout at rush hour.

Quite a lot of people decide that the standard rules of the road (traffic on the roundabout has priority) don't apply. More than once I have had people drive onto the roundabout ahead of me, forcing me to brake suddenly in the middle of the roundabout itself, with traffic behind me.

I hate to generalise, but it has often been articulated vehicles that have done this. "Might is right" often seems to be the rule there.

The sooner they signalise that junction the better for my nerves :D

_Kaiser_

The roundabout in the OPs example isn't as bad as smaller ones in some towns where sudden dual approach lanes are barely wide enough and the dual lanes on the roundabout are very tight as well. I've had numerous occasions in the past where I've nearly been sideswiped by a car that took the bend too wide/short, or nearly had the side of the car torn off as the other driver tries to squeeze onto the roundabout itself.

There one or two of these roundabouts I have to use regularly and I will sit between the "lanes" to be honest rather than risk the above. Far safer all round than risk the above.

elperello

Note to road engineers : don't paint inappropriate arrows at the approach to roundabouts.

Note to drivers : don't treat roundabouts as overtaking opportunities.

sameoldname

The average Irish driver has no peripheral vision, object permanence or any real knowledge of the rules of the road. They also seem to have a hard time turning the steering wheel and lane discipline is an alien concept. Put all these things together on a tight 2 lane roundabout and all you get is an aneurism for the people who know how to drive properly.

Sleeper12

Left hand lane is turn left or go straight on. Right hand lane is to go straight or turn right. If both are going straight & lanes merge into one lane the car on the right has right of way

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939033#Comment_118939033

Close your eyes and hope for the best

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020231#Comment_119020231

If both cars are going straight on into a single lane exit then the car on the left has right of way surely?

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020285#Comment_119020285

If there are no markings to suggest this then car on the right has right of way. This falls under the "if no other rule applies then the car on the right has right of way".

Same set up at a crossroads. Left lane for left and straight according to the road markings. Right lane is right and straight according to the road markings. Only one lane coming off the crossroads then left lane giving way to right.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020231#Comment_119020231

In the example I posted, the right lane merges into the left lane.

Is 'the car on the right has ROW' codified in any law?

Calahonda52

What the car chat in Ronin or bourne identity and apply the lessons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ETruidd5lQ

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020559#Comment_119020559

If its marked out then left has right of way. If its not marked out then right has right of way.

The reason right trumps left in most situations is because right is approaching on coming traffic. If no other rules apply then you give way to traffic on your right

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020297#Comment_119020297

Can you show me this written down somewhere? Surely if this was the case it would make most sense to always use the right lane when going straight on at a roundabout (unless otherwise marked)?

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020697#Comment_119020697

Yes. You're right, it does make most sense.

You always yield to traffic that’s already on the roundabout AND traffic coming from your right. 

https://www.theaa.ie/blog/roundabout-faqs/

magicbastarder

that is the specific context of entering a roundabout, and they are the two basic rules of entering a roundabout - that says nothing about whether it's a general rule though.

also, 'traffic coming from your right' is not the same as 'traffic to your right'.

Sam Russell

I think the most interesting roundabout design is the one pioneered in the UK in Hemel Hempstead and Swindon - referred to as the 'magic roundabout'.

It is a six way junction with a large roundabout surrounded by a two way road with six small roundabouts at each entry/exit. So approaching the roundabout, the driver can go clockwise or anticlockwise. Now strangers tend to go clockwise while locals find it quicker to go anticlockwise, but any type of delay allows the driver to take the alternative route. It works quite well.

No-one else has seen the wisdom or benefit of the design.