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Average cost for engineer to sign off for new build.

  • 13-04-2022 11:22am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭


    Hey,


    Anyone recently built a house and can give me an idea of the cost of the engineer to sign off on it. The guy who did the planning for me is qouting me 7500. This guy is not cheap with planning which is why i think he is trying to rob me again. is it not only come to the site a few times and do an inspect to make sure work is carried out to the standard i though so why so high?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    grimeire

    there is a Code of Practice for Inspecting and Certifying Buildings and Works.

    It is a Code of Practice, and everyone should comply with it. It gives the minimum number of inspections required

    However if I was Certifying the building I certainly would carry out many more inspections than as stated in the Code.

    I would inspect and retain photos of all works before anything is covered up by the workers on the Building Site.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Depends in AC role required or opting out.

    Ive seen figures of 5k plus vat for Dublin large extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    The Assigned Certifier may be sued for negligence regardless whether the Client opts in OR opts out.

    Obviously there is less paper work for opt out Construction

    €5k for an extension is about right.

    Also depends on the Building Contractor and his Craftspersons



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    OP, who is doing bank costings for you?

    who is designing your foundation?

    Who is preparing block work drawings, structural steel details, roof details' designing to ensure compliance with building regs etc?

    Who is doing your energy spec and proving compliance with Part L?

    Who is going to have to site down and do multiple energy calcs when you want to use a cheaper or different insulation product then revise drawings?

    Who is going to be on the end of phone for all queries along the way?

    Who is going to issue drawings to specialist contractors and keep drawings updated along the way?

    The site visits are the enjoyable part of the job and about 5 percent of the time input overall.

    Your engineer then has the headache of cowboy trades being involved and finding mistakes on site - the home owner then thinks that the engineer should have told them this or that. Everything is Engineers fault.

    I only work with known contractors now on self builds otherwise it's a **** show that would require continuous supervision.

    On top of all the work, the engineer then has an ongoing liability relating to the works so factoring in all this, you can see where the cost comes from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    mickdw

    Brilliant.

    Totally Agree

    Cowboy Trades come in disguise, are gone like the wind, and the Surveyor/Engineer held responsible by the Client.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    The Surveyor or Engineer or Architect must Certify all the construction works and provide Professionals Indemnity Insurance for same for a period of 6 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,424 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    We are doing a new build and our engineer is costing is €3800 end to end. That included the full planning process, construction drawings and 5 stage payment certs incl final sign off. Midlands county.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I find it hard to understand how anyone could do that work for that money.

    3800 is a fairly rock bottom figure for the planning application. To say that you are getting construction stage services as well for that is unreal. I'd say that Engineer is very busy at those prices.

    Was there much design involved in your planning process?

    I hope your work is getting the attention it should as it really is difficult to give it any time at the price mentioned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,424 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    The engineer concerned is easily the biggest where Im living and is involved in projects across the midlands region, from once off houses like our own to full estates. Why would doing the planning application cost the guts of €4k? There isnt much heavy lifting involved in it as far as i can see. The house we are building is fairly big (2750 sq ft and a 500 sq ft detached garage) but very straightforward in terms of design as in no mad architectural aspects etc. As far as I know its getting the required attention. For the first 3 stage certs, he had them submitted to the bank within 5 working days of me requesting them and sends me photos of everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Well I don't know how it's done.

    I'd like to know how to be honest. Even a rectangular bungalow cannot be done for that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    mickdw

    Unbelievable.

    I wouldn’t do a planning for a new house for that.

    Well I prefer the sleep easy factor



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Not much different than that around here. Anything from €4000 - €7000 max for end to end process for relatively straight forward houses and you’d have a good choice of engineers in that price range. I don’t know where lads are coming up with the mad figures they’re expecting to pay here.

    Majority of one off houses built are relatively straight forward and the design or shape of them usually fall into one of maybe 8 or 10 different styles. Any engineer will have completed similar houses in the past so all the foundations, roof detailing, insulation calculations, working drawings, structural drawings, steel calcs etc. are all already there or only need minor tweaking from the last similar house to yours that the engineer completed.

    Obviously if you’re designing or building a bespoke one off house with a lot of out of the ordinary design features I wouldn’t be expecting an engineer in that price range but 90% of houses wouldn’t fall into that category.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,424 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Agreed. We've gone the contractor route and there have been zero issues. Maybe with direct labour there are more potential headaches but to me, the lads posting above are pricing in for every single conceivable issue that may arise to increase their bottom line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Houses are straightforward. 😂😂😂

    All foundations are not the same.

    All builders and building workers the same.??????. They do not arrive to the site on a horse and wearing a Stetson

    This is the Code Of Practice for Inspecting and Certifying Buildings and Works (opt in or opt out)

    The Consultant must provide Professional Indemnity Insurance for a period of 6 years after Signing the Certificate of Compliance.

    This is one of the many Documents along with all the Planning Acts and all Building Regulations Acts that the Plaintiffs Senior Counsel will present to the Court.

    Maybe Aldy might produce a Zoom Engineer - €99.99 inc VAT. Pay for 1 and get 1 free😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    7000 is more reasonable.

    The 3800 figure for planning and sign off is just not workable if giving any kind of service.

    That said, all my houses are very much one off.

    Yes, I will have standard sections and details but still a hell of alot of work in producing building drawings for the type of stuff I'm involved in.

    Back in the day when every rural house was a bungalow with A shaped roof, there was not much involved but today it's nuts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    mickdw

    Totally agree, and in those old days there was only a few genuine reputable Building Contractors and only a Trade Union qualified craftsperson was allowed to carry out their Trade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Laugh or sneer all you want, it says more about you than it does about me.

    You’d be spoiled for choice with engineers in the price range I quoted. All fully certified, insured and running long standing and respected businesses.

    Maybe you charge more and if you’re getting the work at higher rates then I suppose you’d be mad not to charge it. But luckily there are plenty of honest engineers out there who aren’t trying to rob people and do a fair days work for a fair days pay. Or maybe they’re just better at their job and can get through the work more efficiently than you.

    Whatever the reason is irrelevant really as the simple fact is they are there to do the exact same work as you’re doing for a lot less money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Can you please give details of these businesses cause I've lots of work I can sub out to them at those rates. It will allow me to expand my business and take alot more work.

    As it is currently, I would be cheaper than the bigger Engineering businesses locally who would certainly be over 10k for a straight forward planning application plus construction stage works.

    A business who would take on construction stage works start to finish for ? 2k or so and taking on all the time and risk associated with that would be a god send to me right now and allow me to do more on the design side.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭DBK1




  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭SodiumCooled


    Our full service cost for the architect from first meeting to signing off on the finished house will be about 6100. That includes any fees associated with the planning and build phase (planning fee, commencement notice etc). I think it's a pretty good price going by some of the numbers I have seen and the amount of work he is doing for us. While not extremely complex it's not a standard pick from a list design either and was designed from our lists of input and requests on what we wanted.

    The 3800 mentioned above seems exceptionally good for a full service. On the other hand some of the numbers I have seen on older threads are frightening 10k+ or even 20k+ being mentioned just for architect/engineering work.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Could you PM me please too.

    I currently send about 2 extensions/new builds a month to various engineers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,829 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The $3800 is definitely not a full service. It's bare minimum to satisfy council and the bank. That's it.

    The only way to do that for under 4k is to sell the same design, multiple times. There's many that do it, often they are downloading plans online. As long as people know what they are paying for it's fair. But if people are pretending they are designing houses is a bit misleading. Very often these guys and have qualifications in another field and present themselves as a generic "engineers" in order to churn out planning applications and do a few inspections.

    There's been many suspect cases on here over the years, a race to the bottom won't help that.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,424 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    We had our house plans drawn up bespoke and to our requirements separate to the €3800 by a different party. The construction drawings are the drawings for construction ie where the steel is required etc etc and were done based on the the house plan. Even including the cost for those, all in we are still well under €5k.

    Reading this thread its lads puffing out their chests and jacking up their prices because they can and not because they need to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    You said you got full end to end including planning process for 3800.

    Now you got the design done separate!

    Misleading isn't the word.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,081 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I did.

    Costs as outline but looked like a very basic quote for a very basic service.

    Price even included percolation test, maps, council fee and newspaper in what was a crazy cheap price for planning stage.

    Build stage lacked detail and I'd assume it was a paddle you own canoe type deal cert provided at end.

    Considering what is generally accepted for commencement now in terms of lack of detail, I guess it is possible to offer a bargain basement service but how do you have any control over the standard of work and detailing that you certify then. It's a dangerous game to be playing considering the way insurance works.

    Post edited by mickdw on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Hi would you mind PMing me the name of your engineer. In the early stages of planning an extension ourselves in the midlands and considering our options. Would have PMd you but your profile is set to private. Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,829 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Which proves my point. It’s was not a full service. They didn’t design the house that take it to completion for that price.

    They provided the bare minimum construction drawings for the builder. If that’s all you needed, no bother. But it’s beyond silly to compare that to a professional actually designing a house start to finish.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Agh that explains it then.

    You didnt get the whole package which makes sense and makes it more reasonable. Might be handy if you post the full details in future as your post is very misleading and borderline lies.

    Is the engineer signing off on just the structural elements or the complete planning and building regulation package?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,424 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Borderline lies? I answered the question the OP asked so please, do tell, how was i lying? As far as i can see in here it's an echo chamber for a few lads justifying the massive fees they are charging for what in reality is not much work.



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