Fuel Protests - Dublin 11 April

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913911#Comment_118913911

Not before he shafted those of his voters who believed his pledge that hell would freeze over before he'd support a Bertie Ahern led government - made personally to me outside Donabate Train station one morning! The day that they voted for Ahern for Taoiseach is the day that the Green Slime lost four votes from our household!

seamus

@Mecanudo wrote:

As detailed in a previous comment- Ireland is amongst the top 10 countries in Europe with regard to the price of fuel. It is the 4th most expensive country in Europe with regard to the price of electricity. And it is the proportion of taxes and additional tarrifs which makes our fuel and electricity so expensive.

Sure, but this is a different issue that's not going away.

Reducing the price of fuels overall is short-term gain for long-term pain. The nature of us as a country means that fuels will nearly always be more expensive. So the answer is to wean ourselves off this by throwing everything we can find into renewables and reducing our reliance on fossil fuels across all areas of the economy. If we start throwing in tax cuts and caps now, then not only is it harder to re-impose them to later on, but you reduce the incentive to move to greener power sources in the long-term.

We should be aiming for a point where our reliance on petrol and diesel is trending towards zero in twenty years at most. And key to that is to make these fuels increasingly less desirable to use. Reducing the cost of fuels by any significant amount at this stage is a retrograde step that will cause more damage than it prevents.

The sh*t that's really going to hit the fan is when we've fvcked ourselves by still using fossil fuels for most of our energy needs in 2040 and climate change is fundamentally altering the ecosystem we're used to.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915203#Comment_118915203

I don't remember the whole in's and outs of it, but afaik he was strong armed into going with a majority of party elements who wished for the party to be in power. And why he resigned his position as leader of the party. Things went downhill from there imho

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915269#Comment_118915269

No I don't agree that electricity and energy prices here being among the highest in Europe is a "different issue." It's very much part of the problem.

We should be aiming for a point where our reliance on petrol and diesel is trending towards zero in twenty years at most

Well that's great. How ever in the here and now - we along with the rest of Europe are heading towards having to make decisions about keeping the lights on

The sh*t that's really going to hit the fan is when we've fvcked ourselves by still using fossil fuels for most of our energy needs in 2040 and climate change is fundamentally altering the ecosystem we're used to.

We're already committed to a move towards 100% renewable energy generation with the provisio that we need fossil fuels such as natural gas to provide essential energy for the period of transition.

Right now we still need to use fossil fuels for basic services such as energy generation and transportation. The fact that we have a perfect storm caused by increased taxes and tarrifs plus additional world events means that **** is hitting the fan right now. And that needs to be tackled urgently

seamus

And that needs to be tackled urgently

And it is being tackled. On a short-term sustainable basis. You don't start burning the furniture just because there's a cold day. Like I say, huge cuts or concessions in fuel prices do more damage in the long term.

Especially the level of cuts these morons were talking about yesterday. Completely clueless stuff.

Seth Brundle

Right now we still need to use fossil fuels for basic services such as energy generation and transportation.

We still have fossil fuels to use for energy generation and transportation.

What we don't have is the taxpayer making massive unnecessary tax cuts simply to pander to some nutjobs making anti-democratic demands who have no mandate to do so.

At a time when we need to be encouraging people to reduce their dependence on fossil fuels we should not be encouraging usage by artificially reducing prices significantly.

The fact that we have a perfect storm caused by increased taxes and tarrifs plus additional world events means that **** is hitting the fan right now. And that needs to be tackled urgently

I'm constantly reminded of the obvious disconnect in the public between the cost of fuel which they claim is outrageous and the number of people who I see taking the car rather than walk a short distance. If the **** is actually hitting the fan, why are people still speeding? Why are they still choosing to use the car when they could just walk?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915283#Comment_118915283

Resigned as party leader - but still happily took up the junior ministerial sop when he was offered it! But your analysis is right - John "Planet Bertie" Gormley was frantic to get into a Ministerial merc as soon as its keys were waved in front of him!

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915461#Comment_118915461

We still have fossil fuels to use for energy generation and transportation.

You've omitted the point that right now we still need to have price controls for fossil fuels we do use for energy generation and transportation to help keep down the cost of living .

Regardless of who you or I think are "nutjobs". The government as per other governments in Europe need to move on that to work out a solution and no that's not "encouraging usage" by "artificially reducing prices significantly"or other solipsisms

I'm constantly reminded of the obvious disconnect in the public between the cost of fuel which they claim is outrageous and the number of people who I see taking the car rather than walk a short distance. If the **** is actually hitting the fan, why are people still speeding? Why are they still choosing to use the car when they could just walk?

I believe the topic was the costs of fuel relative to costs of transportation and increasing costs of living and not what you think your neighbour might or might be doing

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915000#Comment_118915000

We have an energy crisis. We have a housing crisis. We have a hospital crisis. We have an education crisis. We have a cost of living crisis.

But Seth is grand, so everything is ok.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915403#Comment_118915403

And it is being tackled

I don't believe it is. Action taken to help with rapidly rising costs of living hopefully won't be needed to be "long term". But without them people will experience a lot more "cold days"

So yeah like pretty much every other protest and as detailed earlier their organisation and communication strategy was shite. What's new lol.

That doesn't mean that action on rapidly rising prices of fuel and by extension transportation and costs of living shouldn't be taken

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915609#Comment_118915609

Ireland has its problems but so too does pretty much every country. Its probably still better to be alive today compared to any other time in the past (except the 1990s perhaps). Ireland is 2nd in the world on the human development index and ranked 15th in the world happiness index, so all in all we arent doing too badly.

If all the warning signs are true, climate change needs to be tackled today. We are going to have to feel the pain sooner or later but the longer we leave it, the worse the pain will be I suspect.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914790#Comment_118914790

Nobody said city politicians have to know anything about rural life, its that clown you lot elected who took it on himself to tell us here in rural Ireland what we should be doing when he hasn't a clue.

I'll take the "bogger TD" over that moron.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917964#Comment_118917964

What has he told said that rural people should be doing or is this related to his comment about how small villages, if they decided to, could in theory adopt car sharing to save money rather than everyone needing to own a car (which people for some bizarre reason think he said they must get rid of the car and start car sharing)?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917964#Comment_118917964

The bogger TD is the reason why the country is a mess. No public transport etc. people voting for year for the local gobshite to fix da road.

Now the same people complaining over the price of fuel and no but but “da car”.

It’s about time we stopped listening to the bogger TD and fixing the roads and we might actually fix this country. If we keep going you will be still in the exact same spot in 40 years time and blaming everyone else

The amazing part is people actually don’t understand this

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918171#Comment_118918171

Yeah its the local TD who is responsible for all that.

Now who is it again that the Minister for Transport?

Ah yes its the guy who falls asleep on the job, the person all you sophisticated Dubs elected who you seem to think is so much better than the bogger TD to use your own terminology.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918142#Comment_118918142

People living in rural areas do need to own a car because public transport is just not there, the fact that you and that clown think such an idea would work out apart from the small number of times people would be going to the same place at the same time says it all really.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918226#Comment_118918226

If you are not aware of political parties and how they work. Just look at the FF TD going to leave the party and more or less pull the government down because they wouldn't "build the road" in Cork.

The majority of TD in rural area go around with a build the road mentality, I know because I live in rural areas. Ask them anything else and they haven't a clue. That's the TD you want in and then complain about the TD who has a bit more capacity to look at other things....

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918256#Comment_118918256

Public transport is not their because you bvoted in TD for year to build roads and not public transport. then when a party tries to bring public transport instead of roads you go nuts and call them names

Really crazy sh*T

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918273#Comment_118918273

And you think politicians in Dublin are any different?

O Riordain and McDonald objecting to housing builds in their constituency and coming up with some bs story when the reason is the folks who vote them in didn't want it in the nice neighbourhood they live in.

elperello

If only you could get elected by espousing causes and policies that the majority of your electorate don't support.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918302#Comment_118918302

Whats that got to do with public transport?

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918355#Comment_118918355

You seem to think its just rural TDs who push local issues I'm pointing out they all do it.

Seeing as you mentioned public transport a bus route here in Loughrea has been cut, bit hard for us to do as Ryan suggests and use the fooking thing when they take it away from us.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918256#Comment_118918256

If you re-read what I wrote, I didn't comment on whether or not I believed him. I made the point that it is quite common to attack him for saying something when he actually said something quite different. People seem to twist his words to suit their own personal bias against him. You're even alluding to rural areas giving the impression of someone living miles away from their neighbour whereas Ryan mentioned a rural village of 300 people.

However, for many people living in rural villages, car sharing could be an option but to have people like yourself dismiss it outright without any discussion proves that people simply don't want to listen to what he has to say. Many people cannot afford to buy a car and sharing one would be much easier to afford. Is there an actual reason why it might not be an option to be examined?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920419#Comment_118920419

On the car sharing Ryan is right.

Cars are an expensive depreciating asset and for many people both rural and urban they sit outside the door most of the time.

If their needs could be served by a car that could be "borrowed" occasionally it might suit a lot of them.

What we need is few pilot projects and less negativity based on who proposed it.

https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-launches-the-first-100-electric-rural-carsharing-in-spain.html

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920419#Comment_118920419

How many GoCar outlets are based in rural areas? They are a carshare company. Surely they'd make a killing in rural areas if you are correct, however they seem Dublin-centric.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918376#Comment_118918376

You are complaining about the Green party pushing for public transport. Then in the same conversation complain about the lack of public transport.

As I said, next time a TD comes a knocking ask them for proper public transport. You will be a lot better if you have public transport

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921532#Comment_118921532

Firstly I've no idea how or why GoCar choose their locations - maybe ask them yourself.

As for "they'd make a killing in rural areas if you are correct" - if I'm correct about what exactly? I merely repeated what Ryan said and pointed out that . I've not said whether it would work or not but I made the point that some people choose to deliberately misinterpret Ryan's words and then use that misunderstanding to criticise him because it suits their bias. Somewhere else in this thread someone mentioned how there was a fuel crisis, a housing crisis, a hospital crisis and various other crises. However, when someone suggests on radio a possible alternative to having to buy, maintain, insure and spend a lot of money on a car that they might use infrequently, it seems fashionable to lambast the man and the idea simply because he is from the Green Party!

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921931#Comment_118921931

Doesn’t matter what party he’s with, it’s an incredibly stupid idea. Someone still has to buy, maintain (an awful lot more due to wear and tear), insure (what company offers insurance for 30+ private citizens on the one car?), and who is going to pay all of that for a car they’ll get to use infrequently and might not be available to them when they need it?

It’s seems an even more stupid idea after typing the stupidity of it all out.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922801#Comment_118922801

It's an idea that's worth looking into and maybe piloting in a few locations to see how it works.

The negatives you have come up with can be overcome and already have been in other countries.

https://www.tuev-nord.de/explore/en/reveals/carsharing-in-the-countryside/

brokenangel

Car sharing is the future, I talked to a large leasing company many years ago and they said it will come in the next 30-40 years that people will no longer own a car. It will be too expensive. You will have a car at the end of the road and you hop into it, use it for the day and then hop out of it. All paid via an account

That was at least 10 years ago. What has changed since then, well PCP was introduced so people don't really own a car anymore they are moving more & more towards a constant lease model. The cost of owning a car has gone up and up. More and more companies are coming out with lease model or rental models to move away from car ownership

I would say in the next 20 years the idea of buying a car and driving it around, especially in major cities will be gone. You will have a pool of car you just take for the time you need. It will be too expensive to own a car