Best value EV (or hybrid) 7 seat towcar

topofthewind

Hi all,

Was looking to upgrade my car to an ev/hybrid if feasible (currently have a 7 seat Skoda Kodiaq).

I need to have 7 seats and the ability to tow a caravan. I do about 28k km a year.

So far am struggling to find an option that meets my requirements in the ev or hybrid range.

Is my only realistic (and affordable) option to stick with an ICE vehicle?

I have had a look at most of the major brand offerings but suspect I may have missed something.

Any costed suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

pron

In the short-term : Yes, sticking with ICE / PHEV is about your only real option (and I'm not sure PHEV counts in 7-seat terms)

Options for 7-seaters are, effectively:

• Tesla Model X 7-seater €120k if you can get one
• Mercedes EQV about €100k
• Citroen Spacetourer (van conversion, seems only 50kW available here) .. also Peugeot / Opel versions of same - about €50k
• Volkswagen ID.Buzz (there's a promised 7-seat LWB version, but nothing official yet)
• Older Tesla Model S with jump-seats for toddlers :)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889352#Comment_118889352

There is a 7 seat option for the Tesla Model S alright, but the car is not rated for towing.

topofthewind

Thanks for that info. Very helpful.

I’ll have a look at those van conversion options. At €50k the price gap isn’t as big as I thought (the ICE 7 seaters have gone way up over the past year). I must look up the towing range of a 50kW vehicle, I suspect it mightn’t be great though.

pron

https://ev-database.org/car/1341/Citroen-e-SpaceTourer-M-50-kWh

Might have some useful info

kanuseeme

https://www.kia.com/ie/new-cars/sorento-phev/discover/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs4aqgNj_9gIVRbTtCh0siwhJEAAYASAAEgLQG_D_BwE

55 km range, 1.6l petrol, 260 bhp. tow 1500 kg.

Better looking than the transit van,

topofthewind

Thanks for that.

The Citroen has a towing limit of 1000kg. Not bad, but there wouldn’t be many caravans below that weight. You’d want at least 1,500kg for most outfits I’d say. My one is 1600kg and wouldn’t be one of the biggest.

topofthewind

Thanks for the reply.

The Kia Sorrento went from circa €40,000 to about €60,000 a few years back. Was a great shame as that and the Santa Fe were in a great position to compete with the VAG group offerings.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889662#Comment_118889662

The diesel versions are 1 to 2 k more expensive, it would really be down to your trips, better economy if you do lots of 50 km trips, I found from my outlander it was no worse than a diesel on long trips, only that petrol was 10 cent more expensive, about 5 euro extra on a 320 km trip to Dublin.

Its 100 kg short, would that make much of a difference?

fits

Sorento PHEV best option I’d say. The ioniq5 can tow 1600kg which might do for a caravan but it’s not a seven seater.

topofthewind

Sorento the best value hybrid option it seems. Coming in somewhere around €57,000. No ev on the table for now.

The Kodiaq currently not available in petrol (despite what the website says) so best price is the diesel dsg at around €47,000 (after paint plus delivery).

Big price difference between the two. Looks like an ICE the best value for now. Will be interesting to see how well diesels hold their value going forward vs hybrids.

Lantus

Just so you are aware adding even a small caravan to an ev will cripple the range. A good sized ev like an enyaq 80kwh will do 150km with a caravan at best....see the video below.

https://youtu.be/mmQJUW-VyRY

There is no viable ev to tow a caravan practically yet and with 7 seats and luggage plus bike etc. Stick with what you have.

topofthewind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889722#Comment_118889722

The 100kg would make a difference alright as the recommended way of loading for a trip is to put a lot of your cargo kgs between the axles of the towing vehicle for stability. In practice that means that if towing 1600kg at the towbar, there would be a decent load in the car too.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890047#Comment_118890047

Id also seriously worry about the logistics of parking at public charging with a caravan attached! (And assume it would be a total ballache to be constantly disconnecting reconnecting)

unkel

Aye. Regular towing would be one of the very few use cases where a PHEV is a better option than a BEV.

Killer K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891133#Comment_118891133

In Norway maybe..

kanuseeme

Santa Fe phev also a 7 seater, but towing seems to be 900 kg, I could be wrong on that, its a good 5 k cheaper than the diesel version also.

topofthewind

Had a look there again at the Hyundai site. Santa Fe phev at around €58,000. a nice enough car but the price is way up there now.

Couldn’t find any info on towing limits. 900kg wouldn’t be enough for most applications.

I’d say the best value (affordable) option for a towing 7 seater PHEV is the Sorento but with a towing limit of 1500kg, it’s not a great option.

kanuseeme

New outlander out later this year, 80 km range 20 kWh battery, 7 seats, don't know about towing, only problem is that Mitsubishi has left, no its staying, no they are in discussion with Renault, so who knows.

pron

BEV or PHEV towing is probably down to Gross Train weight of 3500kg which is your max on an EB licence iirc ?

The extra 500kg of batteries has to be accounted for somewhere :)

joe1303l

Mercedes EQB €70K

topofthewind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895864#Comment_118895864

That’s a very important point. The heavier weights of ev and phev vehicles means that a lot of the available 3,500kg is accounted for before any trailer/ caravan is added.

For e.g., the Kodiaq comes in at 1710kg. The max (as per B license) that can be towed is 1790kg (when added to the weight of the car to stay below 3,500kg).

A caravan at 1600kg plus luggage and bikes leaves very little to play with.

Adding even 300kg due to batteries means an EB licence would be needed.

pron

Actually - just double-checked at https://www.ndls.ie/about/licence-categories-and-codes.html#licence-categories

B : Vehicles (other than motorcycles, mopeds, work vehicles or land tractors) having a MAM1 not exceeding 3,500 kg. having passenger accommodation for not more than 8 persons and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg. or where the combined MAM1 of the towing vehicle and the trailer does not exceed 3,500 kg.

BE: Combination of drawing vehicles in category B and trailer where the MAM¹ of the trailer is not greater than 3,500 kg.

So you'd need a BE for a caravan of 1600kg in any case - but max train weight is part of the cert of conformity of the vehicle and has to be complied with either way. That said, most cars have these days have zero rated capacity for luggage if you actually fill every seat with a normal sized adult!

pron

OP - you might want to look at the Merc EQB (not cheap .. Starts in the €65k range ..)

7 seater

Towing capacity (allegedly) of 1800kg according to https://www.whatcar.com/news/2022-mercedes-eqb-review-price-specs-and-release-date/n23828

kanuseeme

As crisco said "charging logistics"

kanuseeme

LMFAO,

Charge and camp all day long.

topofthewind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898341#Comment_118898341

Thanks for the info and for providing the link.

If you read the BE part, you will see that it allows the trailer to be up to 3,500kg. So the vehicle could be up to 3,500kg also (there is also provision for a vehicle to weigh over 4,000kg) . This would allow for a much heavier set up that suits builders, farmers with livestock etc.

My understanding of the B licence is that it allows braked towing to a limit of 3500kg total train weight. No need for a BE licence in my case.

As a caravan tower there are 4 weights that must be adhered to.

1. The permitted combined train weight of towing vehicle and caravan (3,500kg with a B licence).
2. The towing capacity of the lead vehicle (as stated by manufacturer).
3. The towbar down weight limit(also set by the car manufacturer).
4. And the max. permissible cargo weight for the caravan (stated by the caravan/trailer manufacturer). This is the stuff you put into the caravan or trailer.

topofthewind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898371#Comment_118898371

Looks a lovely car. A bit too expensive for my budget but would certainly be up to the job. Thanks.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898416#Comment_118898416

No it’s combined weight of 3500 kg. So if car is 2000 kg and trailer 1500kg it’s fine. Any more and you need BE ( which I have).

topofthewind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900314#Comment_118900314

I think you are agreeing with me 😁

pron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900314#Comment_118900314

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900342#Comment_118900342

The only other limit with a B (not BE) is the trailer can have a max weight of 750kg - up to a gross train weight of 3500kg max (so 2000kg + 750kg trailer max, or 3000kg car + 500kg trailer max)