Stopping trespassers

Bellview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883543#Comment_118883543

are all your comments in brackets actually in the legislation and that perscriptive ... general principles of prevention are guidance not legal... these are often prepared by individuals who know little if anything about farming ie excluding children from tractor cabs (when it may actually be the safest place for them especially if there is a seat in the cab). To my understanding farmers can keep any stock they wish in any field that they wish once its well fenced & if they wish they can put up bull signs....but Trespassers enter at their own risk and while we never like to see any one get hurt, the trespassers created that risk not the farmer, or the bull or a suckler cow that may be protecting her calf from a dog

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890287#Comment_118890287

The 1996 act is very clear. Myself and Donald Trump explained this to you on that other thread.

A Farmer owes no duty of care to trespessers or to recreational users.

So your solicitor friend is I correct.

Could there be a loophole found in the 1996 act. Yes there could be. However in the last 25 year no such perceived loophole at any Court level has been upheld on appeal.

No farmer should be without insurance. You still have invited guests. These are the postman, courier drivers, lorry drivers that deliver cattle, ration, fertlizer etc.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892020#Comment_118892020

The General Principles of Prevention are in Schedule 3 of the Safety Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005.

The principles are general and are not exahustive enough to be prescriptive to every potential situation. But the principles apply to all places of work, whether it be a construction site, a factory, a restaurant, or a farm.

My comments with the Eliminate Hazards, Reduce Risk, Inform and Control are just a shortened down version of the principles that is easier to remember. Comments in brackets are obviously just my opinion on how they would apply to a farmer who is considering getting a bull.

If there is an accident involving a child and a machine, there is no point arguing to the HSA that the safest place for a child was in the cab - they will be of the view that anywhere where machinery is involved is not a place for children to be.

You won't win against the HSA in a month of Sundays. The HSA are one of the toughest agencies of the state, second only to the Revenue Commissioners. I actually haven't heard of anyone taking them on in court and winning. As I said, look at the case records online - everyone pleads guilty, and all the verdicts are guilty. All of them.

The legislation is very tough. The onus of proof, Specifically referred to in Section 81 of the Act, is basically "guilty until proven innocent". So essentially you won't get off for anything other that a complete freak occurrence that could not have been reasonably foreseeable. And most accidents on farms that the farmers claim to be freak accidents and so on, are not freak accidents. People falling off roofs or getting mauled by cattle, or getting trapped or run over by machinery, being overcome by slurry gas, are not freak accidents and are all reasonably, easily foreseeable.

John_Rambo

How many farmers on this thread have been sued by people trespassing?

James2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888916#Comment_118888916

I really doubt those lads will persist in using it after all that work. Especially since they are coming a long ways to use your field. You've made a clear statement against trespassing. Also people will dogs will hardly keep using it now that you've covered up the gate with wire.

It wouldn't be a problem. You have informed the guards and went to the needed lengths to protect your property. There is no malicious intent to hurt somebody, only prevent entry which is legal in Irish law.

Bellview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892698#Comment_118892698

we will agree to disagree... anytime i hear of tragedy with a child & machinery, the child is outside the cab... regarding cattle if trespasser is attacked because the trespasser worried the cattle (which is what normally happen as the trespasser brings in their dogs etc) then its difficult to have any sympathy for the trespasser ... any farmer i know with dangerous cattle always cull them... so every farmer is living by the principles and it is really up to HSA to prove otherwise..

How many cases do the HSA really bring to court... at a guess its small as your examples above I'm not aware of any massive fines or court for the examples you give (slurry gas etc). only time i see HSA mentioned is on construction sites not farming... The HSA is a really quango... they call out when there is a tragedy spend a few days on site pull together a massive report and the majority of these reports sit on a shelf

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929816#Comment_118929816

In fairness to the HSA, deaths on work sites are exceptional now, that in an industry with a long, long history of workers being killed or maimed for life. Do we really want to go back to the bad old days??

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929879#Comment_118929879

The HSA position investigating an accident would generally be you can't prosecute the dead guy or if he's not dead he's already suffered enough (physically or emotionally) as would be the case on most farms where it's the farmer or their family injured or killed.

Now if it was a big industrial farm and an employee it'd be more like a building site.

John_Rambo

I had a small bull terrier dog that left a car thief hiding in my back yard with a really bad foot injury (detached heal pad with broken ligaments). The Gardai caught him after I called it in, they took him to hospital to get his heal operated on & reattached then they arrested him.

He actually called in to me a few months later looking for money and the dog remembered him and went for him again (no damage, I held her back). The Gardai arrested him again, when I said he was looking for compo they fell about the place laughing. He never called back again and I never had to pay any money. I went to the local solicitor and he said I was fine, the scummer hadn't a chance of getting money from me. Solicitor didn't charge me for the advice so I used him for conveyance on a few properties.

(He certainly charged me for that work)

I think this whole idea of people suing when trespassing is bull. It doesn't happen on privately owned land.

Your local solicitor can advice you on this, they're pretty good about giving advice without charging.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936843#Comment_118936843

👏👏👏👏 to the 🐕

Bellview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929879#Comment_118929879

Agree with you... my point was more around how many cases have HSA brought against farmers... my guess is very few... and the very few HSA cases I have seen are mostly on construction site

ganmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892801#Comment_118892801

my ould was, might of been before the 1995 act. it didn't go to court though.

OP can put (ANY) animals into his land. they cannot put traps in place...they can put eclectic strip fencing in place to manage the animals grazing, I don't think trespassers would like that :P

OP I would also google the address of the field with other terms relating to bikes etc, and if I was in your place I'd be asking your friend to stop using it too

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939214#Comment_118939214

It's good to see ye back posting 🙂

How's the lambing been going for ye.

mrslancaster

...

ganmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941330#Comment_118941330

going as good as can be expected.

life changed, didn't give me much time to be on here

Trespasser season in full swing here now. Found out today, owner of local holiday home near farm has been telling people they may walk where they wish as she owns the land. We'll be having words.

Count Mondego

Is it the wife?