Help a dude out?

AyeGer

I deleted my post above as I’m no longer sure who exactly is in the wrong here. As the saying goes 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth. We aren’t hearing her side.

spaceHopper

I think texting her instead of ringing her about her daughter not going to the party was a mistake but I think she has blown it out of all proportion. I don’t know if the relationship is over or on, neither do you. As you messages are not been read and your calls are not been answered I suspect she’s blocked you. I wouldn’t be running back to her to try to fix this. Send her a message on what’s app ( you can see she read it) saying you don’t like how things have been left between you and if she wants, you would like to meet up to clear the air and hear her side of it. If she doesn’t reply then don’t follow up on it. Give it week and then assume she’s ghosted you and it’s over. Personally this is too much drama and I’d be re-evaluating the relationship. 

Green&Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842423#Comment_118842423

Seems like you're not taking a lot of the advice here on board.

My reading is the same as a lot of posters here. Your family applied one set of rules to her daughter and another to you. You were ok with this because you can be trusted to not spread covid, that implies this girl can't.

You started the silence and now that she has continued it you're "getting shirty".

You're partner may be acting like a child and prolonging this but it sounds like you've taken no responsibility for starting it and seem to think you're the bigger person by staying in contact.

Maybe put yourself in your partners shoes and then you'll realise you owe her an apology

ahappychappy

Yikes - two of ye in it. Firstly, she is sick so may not be in her usual head space - I would tend to ignore behaviour when people are unwell as quite often they are annoyed at being sick and it can over-spill into other things.

Secondly - why were you okay to attend party (and had been close contact) but her daughter not? You need to address this as if I was considering having a kid with someone I would want to know my existing child is treated equitably. There was clear difference applied and no one wants to see their child treated like that - you need to apologize for not acknowledging this.

Finally, personally I find text a miserable communication method. Pick up the phone, tone is very important and any confusion can be sorted there and then.

Good Luck

I think the OP is getting a pretty harsh time of it here tbh.

Even if we do take the view that she felt upset over her daughter, which we don't know if that's the case, that doesn't give her a license to emotionally abuse the OP. Nothing justifies the treatment the OP has gotten imo, it is abusive and frankly the OP should really reflect on his and her communication styles before going any further with this relationship.

Throwing a strop like this isn't how adults should communicate, you (and everyone imo) deserves better. I'm not saying you should leave her but you need to have an honest discussion about how she handles her conflicts, because right now she's waving a massive red flag you'd be wise to pay attention to.

Bringing kids into a poorly communicative environment is a recipe for disaster.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843393#Comment_118843393

Yeah, nobody is, because a week later the grown woman is still blanking the guy she is supposed to be trying for a child with.

Whatever the reason all this started, there are ways to deal with things and this isn't it. She is an adult, talk to the guy and tell him what she is thinking, don't blank him like some **** teenager. They are in their 40's, who has time for passive aggressive shite like that.

If a woman was acting in this fashion with me, I would take it as a signal that she no longer wants to be with me and probably react accordingly. I hope that is what she actually wants.

Dtp1979

Bet you any money she’s not Irish

............

Warning given for breach of charter - offering no advice

HS

She probably doesn't want to be with him anymore.

But I agree that if that's the case, she should tell him out straight.

Squatman

get a bouquet of flowers, drop them to her house, and bring a take away with you. FFS, you mention that you're in your forties, and you're looking for advice on a troll account. yesterday being mothers day was probably the day to do it. And for christs sake dont have a child together until ye each have a bit of security i.e. fáinne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853764#Comment_118853764

Apologising when he isn't clear about why she is upset is just endorsing her abusive behaviour. This is a form of coercive control. She withdraws communication until he cracks and ends up apologising just to so she'll speak to him again etc. It's absolutely toxic to any healthy relationship because it reenforces that her "bad" treatment of him works.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842652#Comment_118842652

I agree with the thrust of what Loueze says here, she was hurt by the unthinking way he excluded her daughter, and possibly the lack of concern or sympathy for herself. She did have Covid after all. I also suspect OP is soft-soaping us a bit as to his side of it.

However that absolutely does not excuse a week of passive aggression, ignoring and cold-shouldering. That's not the way a grown adult behaves, it's not a good example for a child - it's emotional abuse. Whether you're in the right or wrong OP this is a major red flag. over the course of your future relationship you are going to have many occasions where she's unhappy with you, is this going to be how you are punished each time?

As Loueze says, your lack of consideration is probably, rightly, making her re-evaluate her relationship with you, I suggest her abusive reaction should make you do the same.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853494#Comment_118853494

We are only hearing his side of the story.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854076#Comment_118854076

He withdrew communication first.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854076#Comment_118854076

He knew she was upset and he withdrew communication. Then he didn't address the initial upset. He messaged her about shopping, then showed up to bring her daughter to school, then asked if she needed anything etc. Why not ask could they speak about the party?

He said on Tuesday she hadn't been answering she said " "Just like you ignored me on Sunday". She's telling him why she's upset, not in a mature way but it seems pretty obvious. He could have said sorry for ignoring you on Sunday, but you can't keep ignoring me now, can we talk?

But instead he was "literally gobsmacked at the petulance he just witnessed".

Then he said Wednesday and Thursday he messaged her again asking if she needs anything. Why not message her and address the issue instead of asking her if she needs anything?

I had an ex who would go into full lickarse mode instead of addressing what was wrong. It was upsetting, frustrating and left me feeling very unheard.

Now maybe that doesn't normally happen in the OP's relationship, as he said they were madly in love up until this, but there seemed to be no awareness in the OP about what he might have done that contributed to this so it makes me think her side of the story would be very different.

Also let's say she was entirely in the wrong here, a one off incident like this isn't emotional abuse.

Big Bag of Chips

a one off incident like this isn't emotional abuse.

This. And a one off incident, while she's sick, certainly isn't emotional abuse.

OP, you admit that you were in love up until Sunday. Then a little spat, which you started, has you questioning her "petulance"?

Her first communication about her child was that it was fine about the party, she wasn't going to send her anyway. At that point you should have said: OK, mind yourself. If you need anything you know where I am. Instead you felt the need to ring her to reinforce the fact that "this is how my brother feels. Is that ok?" (She has already said it was OK.) When she replied saying she was hardly going to say it wasn't ok (well, she hardly was, was she?) you started the silent treatment and ended the phone call. She then contacted you again reminding you to be careful at the party as you'd been a close contact of hers. (I think that's a reasonable communication) Again you ignored this. All while she's sick.

Then as a poster mentioned about you went in to full lickarse mode instead of apologising for your "petulance" the day before, and expected her to be grateful to you. When she decided she wasn't going to just fall at your feet, she certainly didn't have anything to apologise for at that stage, she has done exactly nothing wrong, you start getting annoyed that she's not going to brush your little strop under the carpet.

Yes, a week of this might be a bit excessive. But she was sick. Maybe she just wanted a break from you. We have your account of one incident in your relationship, where you are at pains to paint yourself as a good guy, who has no idea what's wrong with his petulant partner. Is this how you often deal with tiffs? Maybe she'd just had enough and took the opportunity of isolation to take a break from your "petulance". She told you what the problem was. You ignored her. Twice. Got pissed off at her for no reason. Her first reply of "it's fine" should have been the beginning and end of this. But you ignored her. Then ignored her pointing out to you that you had upset her by ignoring her. And then thought it was OK to just carry on without any apology for behaving like that, when she's sick, housebound, and looking after a young child. And then call her petulant for not being more grateful to you. (you who ignored her, twice, unnecessarily, petulantly?)

I think before you two continue to actively try for a baby, you should try living together. Because only by living together you can see how you will really get on. How each of you deal with (or don't deal with) problems. You got this one wrong, and then looked to make her responsible for it all. We don't know if this is how you usually act in situations, although your inability to find any fault in your own behaviour might suggest this is a common theme in your relationship.

People advise on one small aspect of a relationship that a person posts. You're together 2 years, so I'm sure there's a lot more, good and bad, to your relationship than you have been able to post here. This one incident should not have people advising you to dump her, but it's easy for people with no emotional connection to you, your gf, or your relationship to advise that from a distance, based on one (biased) incident to tell you you should dump her.

I think you should talk to her. Listen to her. And maybe look at how you deal with conflict. How you resolve issues. How you accept responsibility for your own part in problems. Because I get the impression you rarely feel like you've done anything to cause, or continue upset.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854415#Comment_118854415

Even if everything you said was right, why do you think a one-off incident (spanning over a week) isn't emotional abuse? It clearly is, imo.

I take your point that his communication was poor too, I'm pretty sure I said initially he should also look at how he communicates but I don't think his responsive (or lack thereof) is abusive, whereas hers is.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854532#Comment_118854532

This "lickarse mode" is a silly interpretation, reading a whole lot into the situation that isn't anywhere in the OP. So much so that it almost seems like projection.

Also, of course one episode of abusive behaviour is abuse. Just as one punch is abuse. How many times need she be emotionally abusive before he pays attention? 3? 5? What if she's really sorry after, is that ok?

I think the bizarre vilification of the OP and excusal of the wife's distinctly childish behaviour is really telling about ingrained gender biases here. And makes me see how so much male domestic abuse could go unreported.

Big Bag of Chips

Also, of course one episode of abusive behaviour is abuse

Well then he started the abusive behaviour, because he first got annoyed at her, and he first ignored her.

I don't think one instance of a couple having a tiff and ignoring messages, when one person is sick and most likely not feeling the best can be classed as abuse. A pattern of that sort of behaviour, yes, that's abusive. Once off, tiff, when sick and isolating. No.

One punch is different. It's clear cut. Like it or not if you went to the guards or a family law solicitor to say your gf was not returning your messages and you wanted to file a report for emotional abuse, I'm sure the guards would want a little more evidence than one instance, and would look for a pattern of behaviour.

OP, it is clear from this that there are two sides to everything. Some people are very eager to tell you you are in an abusive relationship and you need to get out. Despite you admitting that up until last weekend you were very much in love and had no concerns. The advice online is often to end your relationship. Because online, people are expected to be perfect, and behave perfectly, and never to have strong feelings or get upset one way or another. We're all human, you and your gf included. If we all got dumped every time we were having a bit of a sht time and weren't our usual chirpy, enthusiastic selves no relationship would ever get beyond a few months.

I hope at this stage your gf is feeling better and you've both had a chance to talk. You're not 100% to blame for the falling out. But neither is she.

CrookedJack

OP I firmly believe that the silent treatment is emotionally abusive, despite the tendency for people to minimise it. The act in itself, out of context might seem minor and easily excused, but still abusive and still a red flag. She's reminding you that she can emotionally dominate you, that she can punish you for acting in a way she doesn't like. It's ugly behaviour and I certainly think you should be questioning whether you wants that in you (and your child's) life.

Edited: edited after mod direction

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854377#Comment_118854377

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854415#Comment_118854415

OP I disagree with the above point. I don't think it's quite fair to call not answering a text immediately after being on a call with someone withdrawing communication. Especially when the response was days of ignored calls, messages appointments voicemails. I mean come on - It's like beating some one who brushes past you in the street and arguing that they got physical first.

While you certainly are not blameless I think you acted in a reasonable way by not responding to one text message.

Edited: after mod direction

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:

@CrookedJack, I appreciate your points and your point of view, but I must ask that when replying on thread, you direct your replies, in the main part, to the OP.

This is his thread. He came along for advice. We can all offer advice and he can take from it what he feels is relevant. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with another poster's advice or opinion, but it's not a discussion forum, so getting into discussion with other posters is discouraged, in favour of directing advice to the OP.

Thanks.

OP, maybe she turned her phone off or put you on DND because she was ill, and upset at the revelation that the guy she was hoping to start a family had revealed himself as clueless and insensitive, and she had enough to deal with at the time, without also dealing with you on top of Covid.

You should never have ignored her, then picked up again texting her and pretending like nothing had happened. That was dismissive and probably added petrol to the bonfire.

Describing her being "abusive" or labelling anything that happened here as domestic violence is nonsense, and insulting to victims of actual abuse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118856187#Comment_118856187

I am mindful of the mod's directions here but this has to be addressed imo. Here is a definition of coercive control (from Women's aid fwiw) “Coercive control is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.”

The OP’s partner’s behaviour is clearly an act that is being used to punish the OP. It is abuse and it shouldn't exist in any healthy relationship.

Well, if only one single act of ignoring someone can be construed as "coercive control" - then he did it to her first!

Then trying to pick up with her later on while ignoring what went before by pretending like nothing was wrong, was his second strike. He might as well have poured petrol on the bonfire.

Dude fcuked up royally, not once, but twice. He needs to own it.

Trying to turn this around and making this into her abusing him, is just nonsense.

It is on him to make the move to fix this, and he needs to do it in person, not by text.

When your partner tests positive for a potentially dangerous virus, when they say "..And so I wont be going to that party", what you are meant to do is not go either, and take care of them, e.g. get a takeaway, bring some comfort food, etc.

If my partner was self-isolating, I'd isolate with them. Not treat them like some sort of pariah.

89897

Theres alot going on here and I really dont think we're getting the whole story! The silent treatment isnt the way to solve anything but it was the OP that started it.

What is like to understand more is, you said when she got shirty with you on the phone you didnt react and the call ended. What exactly is that? Theres a reaction to everything, did you say something and stay calm, did you address her getting annoyed with you or did you just hang up on her. Im kinda suspecting it was a 'just hand up' when you then ignored her text.

Sick, isolating and then being told her daughters no longer invited to a family event would annoy anyone, i think its that reaction or lack of reaction thats caused the issue.

But also then continuing on as nothing happened after is really not helpful, it dismisses what happened, her feelings and your feelings. Asking to talk about whats gone on is really the only way forward now. After a seemingly great and full of love relationship is now something you're questioning after one bad week, maybe theres been other ignored issues.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118856263#Comment_118856263

It says act or pattern of acts.

That means a pattern of acts on the lower level of the scale adds up to emotional abuse/coercive control....but a single act on the more extreme end of the scale is coercive control/emotional abuse.

A Pattern of shouting can be emotional abuse. A one off incident for most people probably isn't. It's shouting. Most people have done it.

I had a different ex who would threaten suicide if I wanted to leave him. He did that many times. There was a pattern and that was obviously coercive control, but that was also something where even a one off incident is definitely coercive control!

Also from the Irish womens aid website it says "What is coercive control?"

Coercive control is a persistent pattern of controlling, coercive and threatening behaviour including all or some forms of domestic abuse (emotional, physical, financial, sexual including threats) by a boyfriend, partner, husband or ex. It traps women in a relationship and makes it impossible or dangerous to leave.

The garda website says Coercive control occurs when a current or ex-partner knowingly and persistently engages in behaviour that is controlling or intimidating and is having a serious effect on a person. The victim may fear that violence will be used against them, or they may be suffering serious alarm or distress that has a substantial impact on their day-to-day activities......

and also

Coercive control is the collection of small, seemingly minor incidents or details that in isolation are not a criminal offence, but when viewed together display a web of abuse that is insidiously and forcibly eroding at a person’s quality of life.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118856731#Comment_118856731

I honestly don't see where he fcuked up royally.

He didn't immediately reply to a txt telling him to be careful.... does that even need a response?

She got her knickers royally in a twist. Benefit of the doubt might be given as she was sick and may have been irritated and cranky

The brother made the decision to ask for the child not to come.....they don't live together so flying solo isn't a big deal, not as if the child was suited and booted crying at the door.

As someone who has experienced silent treatments it absolutely is emotional abuse. There's a massive difference in having a cooling off period where you take a break as you are annoyed and don't want to escalate the situation further but when the silence goes longer than 24/48hrs alarm bells should be ringing.

The thing is with silent treatments the other person will give in or be a "lickarse" for a quiet life as 99% of the time the argument was a "non event" ......so now you are getting into a "punishment" that works.

So the next argument might be a week silence. Then 2 weeks, then a month. Eventually when this "punishment" doesn't work other means will be deployed....

Seriously op think long and hard if this is a one off or a pattern....if it's a pattern run.

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:

@marilynrr please remember you are posting in an advice forum. There's already been a number of reminders on thread to direct replies, with advice, to the OP.

@Ash.J.Williams your post has been deleted rather than applying a warning. You've been around Personal Issues/Relationship Issues long enough to know the score. Next off topic post will result in a 2 point ban.

All posters are reminded that this is an advice forum. Whilst some relevant discussion points are OK, please remember you are replying to someone who has asked for advice. It's the OP's thread. He's looking for advice. Advise him.

Thanks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118856928#Comment_118856928

Its been discussed at length, Princess Calla - If you didn't get the subtext in that message she sent telling him to careful, or in what she said about his brother, then I don't know what more you need.

What he did was very hurtful, both to mother and child, (actually, we don't know if the child was upset or not, as we haven't got the mothers side) . Would he have allowed his family to exclude his own child so easily?

I hope he now has at least gained some insight, if not resolve.

Anyway, doesn't look like the OP is coming back to the thread, and it's starting to go in circles now.