Social Housing Issue

Could be worse, OP.

The drug dealers in my estate own their houses.

No one to complain to or lobby to remove them.

The Gardaí don't care, either.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828791#Comment_118828791

The gardai ard probably quite happy that the dealers location is fixed - it's easier to police when you know where they are.

We know that an elimination strategy doesn't work for drugs. And that it you legalise some, eg weed, then the people who live outside the law will turn to other illegal things to make a living.

It all comes back to parenting: teach your kids to be secure and happy and they won't need drugs to feel good. Bring them up to be unsecured, anxious, unhappy, and they're vulnerable to dealers and the cycle.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828438#Comment_118828438

That's not how this works, if you don't want me to respond, then don't post. You can't try to get a last dig in and then expect me to let it go.

It's not fantasy that you constantly refer to the "free house" and that you obviously have an axe to grind with social housing. Apart from the messy garden you've yet to point out any actual disruption to the daughter - feeling hard done by because they've a social house doesn't count.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828763#Comment_118828763

And now we are down to personal insults.

Can you dig any lower?

Never mind. Im sure you can. But please dont.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828875#Comment_118828875

I find the suggestion i would be a barrister to be an insult🤗 Can't claim higher morals when you started it

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828563#Comment_118828563

You say your daughter and her family don't care about the social housing, yet you spend a large part of this post giving out about the fact the family is in social housing.

To be clear you say here explicitly that the issue is "...someone who goes around in her dressing gown all day every day, throws her children into a car with no child seats and deals drugs from her house that’s funded by the taxpayer."(Emphasis mine)

So which is it? Can you not see how a post like that might lead a reasonable person to think the issue was, at least in part, anger that these people have a free house? I'm not inventing it, you said it right there.

As to my other point, how it is actually affecting your daughter, well you've still not answered that.

You've listed a few things people are labelling as "Anti-social":

• Going around in a dressing gown all day.
• Driving kids with no car seats.
• Not mowing her lawn.
• Letting kids "Run wild" - I'd be interested to hear what this actually means, I expect my definition of wild is different to yours.
• Having visitors you label as dodgy at any time throughout the day.
• Having the Gardaí search the house.
• Apparently having drugs found in the house (though I'm unsure as to how you'd know, do the Gardaí tell the neighbours?)

Anything else i miss? Of those, all bar the last do not affect your daughter in any way shape or form, apart from maybe denting her new house pride.

So what is the actual affect on your daughter? Has she been threatened, have her kids been bullied, has her property been damages or her car broken into?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828843#Comment_118828843

There are more factors then parenting involved, it's not really that simple.

It doesn't explain how one child from a family can "go down the wrong path" while the others grow up fine.

All parented the same!

But that's for another thread, another day, I think.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828900#Comment_118828900

You are being such a child today. Not just in this thread either.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829045#Comment_118829045

Takes one to know one

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828990#Comment_118828990

The house is funded by the tax payer. Stating a fact doesn’t mean I have an issue with it, does it? My point is, drugs are being dealt from a house that is funded by the tax payer. Do you think that’s right? Drug dealing full stop isn’t right but it’s worse when people are bold enough not to work, get a house handed to them then slap the face of the average joe soap going to work every day to pay for their own house.

You do know how anti social behaviour is defined? It’s not exactly open to interpretation or can be suited to how one person perceives it compared to another. If you don’t see how any of the points I mentioned can be classed as anti social behaviour then I don’t know how I can get through to you. Drugs were found, trust me on that one.

From the comments here it’s easy to see who’s been raised in environments where the kind of behaviour I’ve described is frowned upon and seen as wrong, and it’s easy to see who’s been raised in environments where this kind of behaviour is seen as normal and acceptable. I don’t know whether to be shocked or not.

Peintre Celebre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828606#Comment_118828606

My god this is such an embarrassing take. This soft touch and excusing of criminality is why towns and cities nationwide are turning into absolute holes. The poor junkies and dealers.

Bless you, you're easily shocked.

This is just another poorly disguised attempt at a welfare recepient and social housing bashing thread, the likes of those that comes up on boards at least once a month. Surprised you haven't seen them.

If you were really concerned about the (alleged) drug dealing, you wouldnt have started with the personal remarks about how this woman dresses, etc.

1/10

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829656#Comment_118829656

So now you're clearly saying that the "Free house" is part of the issue. Finally you're admitting it at least. I think it's telling that you'd be happier with drug dealers who bought their own house, you should examine that logic.

Again you completely decline to say how your daughter is actually affected by a woman wearing a dressing gown or having a messy garden. Apart from wounded pride maybe.

Incidentally what kind of environment was I raised in, if it's so easy to see?

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830134#Comment_118830134

I don’t want drug dealers at all.

In my very first post I asked what could be done to get this crowd out of the house. If they owned the house this thread wouldn’t exist. The fact the occupiers are tenants of the council means there is at least some bit of hope they can be removed.

A real result would be the case gets heard in court, Tusla get involved and the kids get taken away from her. From what I’ve seen and heard, she isn’t fit to be a parent to small children.

This isn’t only my daughter that’s concerned and annoyed, as mentioned previously there are quite a few of her neighbours that are feeling the same way but people are afraid to act in fear of repercussions.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830185#Comment_118830185

In the post I just quoted you said it was worse that they had a free house. So drug dealers in their own house is better than in a social house. That's what you said. But in no way does the free house make your daughters life worse. The messy garden and dressing gown that's apparently ruining her life would be still ruining her life, so why mention the social house? Unless the point here is to just bash people in social housing.

Also, go on, tell me about how I was raised. You sneeringly said it was easy to do, so be brave enough to speak directly - What environment was I raised in?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830361#Comment_118830361

Simple answer is they have no choice now. Its either pay higher and higher rents or buy and take your chances.

Now that the councils are leasing and buying houses in pre part v estates too, everyone is rolling the dice anyway.

Now to be fair there is nothing wrong with placing social tenants wherever they see fit because 99% of them will be great people and look after their homes and respect their neighbors.

The problem is that when the council fcuk up and put a troublemaker in the midst of law abiding people, they dont do anything about it and just wash their hands of it. That is the jist of this thread - even though others are trying relentlessly to make something of it that it isnt.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833519#Comment_118833519

Ah that would be the BER effect. If people ignored BER and decided that they could afford an extra 500 a year or so to heat their house. when you get in change the light bulbs. Spend 3k on solar panels. Insulate your attic yourself for a fraction of what a professional will charge for it. Then they would be saving 10s of thousands.

But people give the BER far too much value.

I know people that wouldnt even look at a house with a C BER. Fools and their money. And I know people who have converted an F BER to a C or even a B for less than 10k.

OP's family seems to very unlucky - they had an almost identical thread looking for advice for the exact same issues on behalf of a nephew who was living beside an (alleged) drug dealer in a social house last year.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834108#Comment_118834108

Poor family, all of them plagued by women wearing their dressing gowns all day.

MSVforever

Most of the new houses have more square footage and have better noise insulation as well. The help to buy scheme is another factor.

The "lower" priced second hand houses sell often well over the advertised price due to bidding.

I feel sorry for anyone who is trying to buy a house under €400k in the greater Dublin area in 2022...

dubrov

Option A - Sell up and move

Option B - Suck it up and accept it

The guards/courts aren't going to help.

MakersMark

Total disaster for the Ops relatives.

The dirtbags inquestion should be thrown out on the road and have all benefits stopped including child benefit.

Op, there no legal remedy here unfortunately.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118837822#Comment_118837822

Hardly a disaster considering the daughter is completely unaffected by it. And she's also likely imaginary.

Out of curiosity how does throwing them out and removing all the social welfare make them less likely to deal drugs? Surely it means there's little else the can to? Also why are you punishing the children, don't they deserve a home? And the same child benefit that every other kids gets? Or is it only kids who's parents can afford a house who should be looked after?

JCN12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839972#Comment_118839972

We are in a situation in this country where people in such convenient circumstances have nothing to lose.

Maybe if there were real consequences to consistent bad behaviour, people would step up (and realise how blessed they are).

Remember, the majority of the worlds population don't have heavily subsidised housing or financial benefits to live off if you don't fancy working.

We need to stop enabling this behaviour and lifestyle.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839972#Comment_118839972

You could take them in???

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841413#Comment_118841413

I notice you didn't answer any of my practical, specific questions. How does making people homeless make it more possible for them to get a job, and less likely to deal drugs? Why are we punishing children for the bad behaviour of their parents?

If we make them all homeless they'll end up living in shanty towns, like in the rest of the world, is that really better?

I mean sure you'd be able to look down on them and feel morally superior, which I get is the main motivation here, but just imagine all the other problems a bunch of Irish favelas would bring.

Massive multi-generational problems, all so you can feel like you punished some "bad behaviour".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841443#Comment_118841443

Ah ok, I see I was expecting too much rationality from you.

MSVforever

It's pretty easy to see why folks like the OP is pi$$@d off with this type of behaviour.

Basically you can have zero responsibility, popping out kids left, right and centre without being able to afford them in the first place and the state is looking after you as a reward.

Then someone is busting their back side working all type of hours in order to be able to afford the same house in the same estate.

On top of this they have to pay for childcare etc while they are working and paying taxes.

Yes you will own the house eventually after getting a 20 years mortgage etc but if you lose your job, get long term sick etc and can't pay the mortgage anymore you are out on the streets.

Meanwhile those wasters are paying 10-15% from their dole, dealing on the side, becoming a nuisance to their neighbours but can't be kicked out.

So yes, in this instance I fully understand the OP. There are plenty hard working low income families, ill folks with permanent disabilities and poor pensioners who live in shabby emergency accommodation. They would give an arm and a leg to live in one of these social houses.

Meanwhile the scummers, who ruin communities, should be left in emergency accommodation or run down estates.

Proper evaluation of folks who move into part v housing is vital.

Why should bad behaviour be rewarded?

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843012#Comment_118843012

So just plain social-housing bashing then? Well at least you're not pretending it's something else like the others were.

To be clear - We don't house people who can't house themselves because they are good people. We do it because WE are good people, because we live in a society where you don't have to earn basic human rights, you get them because you're human.

Housing people who don't deserve it is necessary to prevent multi-generational poverty, or at least alleviate it. Housing these people in mixed communities is necessary to prevent slums, and to to give their children the opportunity to mix with other social classes.

Only children should think of these complex social issues in terms or rewarding some people, or punishing others.

JCN12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842453#Comment_118842453

The reality is that the problem is only getting worse, not better. As a by product of our approach to the welfare state, we have created such multi generational problems.

So to address your question. What would such individuals do, should their benefits be suspended or social house reallocated to someone else in need?

They would need to do the same as the person who may lose their home for a variety of reasons in the private housing sector.

As for whether it would make them less likely to deal drugs?

Well, if they are dealing in them anyway, it's hardly a valid argument? At least the state would not be enabling it, or providing the capital.

Why punish children? Again, it's an argument that can be applied to almost any part of the justice spectrum. Perhaps if we don't allow such behaviour to develop in the first instance, the children would not suffer at all. Perhaps they may even have a better standard of life? Wholesome even. Imagine.

It's doubtful that the numerous posters here are bashing the premise of social housing or the merits of it or looking for a reason to look down upon someone.

It's more an argument of social justice, and how it should be applied to better the lives of those who actually seek it or want to earn it.

votecounts

What would the OP do if they were drug dealing out of their house if the"Scum" owned the house privately.

MSVforever

I'm not bashing social housing per se. In fact I don't have an issue with subsidising basic accommodation in form of apartments for everybody. This is how it works in the rest of Europe.

Troublemakers could be dealt with in a similar fashion as in this project in the Netherlands:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-10/yes-amsterdam-really-did-banish-an-entire-family-to-a-shipping-container-scum-village

MSVforever

CAB will eventually seize their house:

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/home-of-kinahan-gang-bossliam-byrne-on-market-for-400000-after-cab-seizure-40477024.html

These poor people need to be housed. Think of the Children. Social housing is a must. Especially for people who wont work.

We have young people working minimum wage never be able to afford a house in Ireland. A squeezed middle class barely keeping heads above water.

Why should these working people have all the fun working their arses off, and not having a thing to show for it.

No way ... in the interest of fairness social housing should be given out to those who don't want to work whole sale like the rest of Europe.....

Complaining about social housing will label you a bigot probably by someone on here who will never experience living next to one.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844581#Comment_118844581

Don't worry, there's nothing bigoted about never wanting to live next door to someone on social housing. It's very fair and reasonable to think people with disabilities, widows, lone parents and the elderly are completely unacceptable neighbours.

I mean come on you're working your ass off, last thing you want is some sad-faced, single mother in her dressing gown all day ruining your life.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839972#Comment_118839972

So it's a ransom situation is it? Give them more because if not they'll commit more crime and be more scummy.

I would echo other warnings in this thread to buyers in new estates. Consider the fact that if just 10 houses are social it will only take one family to make all your lives a living hell.

It's a big gamble.

Better off buying second hand in a mature area to narrow the odds imho

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843932#Comment_118843932

Blahhahahaha!!

Why should I work and contribute to some waster who couldn’t be arsed putting into the pot?

No thanks.

You want something in this life, well go and work for it…….

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834108#Comment_118834108

Underappreciated post.

riclad

I thought that dublin City council had a policy if you deal drugs we will evict you, you could send an email to the hse, or contact your local td. Or you can get the local people residents in the estate, to sign a letter we want this family moved out, I don't know do you live in dublin , different councils have different policy's on drug dealing. They are not having loud party's, waking people up, I'm not sure how this effects your daughter, unless they kids are making excessive noise at all hours. Even if they council want to evict a family there's procedures they have to go through . They have maybe to provide other accommodation for the family. Its sounds like random people are going there to buy drugs or drink at all hours.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844826#Comment_118844826

Not necessarily true.

I live in a mature private estate built almost 40 years ago, and in the last five years all but two houses that have come up for sale on my road, have been bought by the local authority.

CreadanLady

@Motivator

You are getting so carried away. You seem to think that antisocial behaviour including drug dealing is grounds to have a local authority evict a tenant and Tusla take their children away.

I can tell you , you are beyond naive. A local authority will not and cannot evict a tenant in anthing other than constantly recurrent extreme antisocial behaviour that diesn't response to repeated interventions from multiple agencies. And similarly, Tusla won't take a child into care unless as an absolute last and final resort because mother's situation, which hasn't responded to multiple prior engagements, is such that there is a severe and imminent risk to the child's life or well being.

I can tell you, it is not that simple. And there will be no moving that family unless they voluntarily move, or unless there is some major event like the imprisonment of the mother and a court order for the council to repossess the house. Any of these are extremely unlikely.

(That is often the reason why young mothers are selected to be middle-men drug dealers - a judge is much less likely to imprison a young mother, for obvious reasons)

You seem to think it is like the 1950's where a local busy body, with a sympathetic Guard and a Priest could have anyone who didn't fit neatly into their pious, god fearing society carted off to the District Asylum or the Magdelene laundry.

I understand your daughter's fear of the drug dealing and the dodgy callers. But why are you honing in on other things to criticise her, such as:

1. her swanning around wearing a dressing gown
2. not mowing the lawn
3. kids not being in car seats

Sure, none of these things are great, but how do they impact your daughter's family? THey don't. And criticising things like that just smacks of pure snobbery and Maud Flanders clutching her pearls.

And on the council evicting them, well even if they could, they would only have to re-house them somewhere else, where the same issues will likely crop up. So it is all extra hassle for them to keep moving them on. So why would they bother.

What you would have to do is to make it more hassle for the council not to move them on. That means repeatedly tracking down and pleading with Councillors, Council Officers, Directors by phone, letters, emails, Garda reports, solicitors letters, residents petitions, etc etc for an extended period of time to basically wear them down into making arrangements to move the family on. All being time consuming, stressful and expensive pursuits.

It would probably be less hassle for you and your daughter to just turn a blind eye and try ignore the woman and leave off the Maud Flanders suburban outrage.

We live in a society where the drug dealers are the victims, and ordinary working people are the villains.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834108#Comment_118834108

In light of this calling very significant questions as to whether this thread is trolling or not; and the worthless quality of much of the recent posts I'm closing this thread.