Food security

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923726#Comment_118923726

No, you missed the point. You cannot produce vegetables in your back garden cheaper than you can get them from Aldi.

Likewise, most farmers cannot produce vegetables cheaper than Aldi or Tesco will pay for them. Farmers who grow veg are nowadays specialist, effectively industrial, operations. There are some that produce small scale for niche premium markets like organic, but in the main it's "go big or go home". The margins for the farmer are way too small. The farmers has no power in those dynamics. The retailers have huge power and make the profit.

Why should a farmer produce at a loss any more than you would produce at a loss for your neighbour? In your case, it wouldn't even be your livelihood so you could theoretically do it.

Example here:

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/tillage/the-costs-are-forever-increasing-but-the-price-returned-stays-the-same-39189609.html

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923765#Comment_118923765

You never read my earlier post as i explained what my thoughts are in this area...

goldenmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785902#Comment_118785902

If an acute shortage were to arise, and begin to affect farming to a great degree, then supplies would be diverted from non-essential industries as food production would take priority. That aside, there's an abundance of smaller, more compact farming business' throughout the country. Ireland wont go hungry again in a hurry.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923810#Comment_118923810

This is your earlier post

I expect one of the most food secure countries in the world is Spain as they appear to produce everything they eat... I have being saying this here for years and generally get hammered by the farming people on here... We produce very expensive steak that most people cannot afford and buy in vegetables from wherever as there is a lot of labour in producing same.

I think it would be an idea for to ask farmers to produce food for human consumption on a small percentage of their land or other land to get whatever grants available for meat production... I think the first responsibility of government is to ensure food security as far as possible... we're not doing this in my opinion...

First point which you need to learn -> There is no such thing as "grants for meat production". I'm sure you have some vague notion that there is, but I'll invite you to find some details and send them on to me. Anything to do with EU money is publicly advertised (and actually, money received over 1,270 Euro is published in a public database with the recipients name and location and breakdown). So it there is a grant available for "meat production", you should be able to find it - right? It doesn't exist. This is a great example of ignorance having no place in a debate.

Second thing, if you read that article, that man is the only grower of scallions left in the country. And he struggles with the rising costs. That is for a specialised operation that has such economy of scale that he grows 500 acres of them, and the article mentions he had 100 workers harvesting with an additional 50 to start soon. The average farm size in Ireland is 80 acres. Most land would not be suitable for vegetable production, but even ignoring that - you want farmers to "produce food for human consumption on a small percentage of their land". I assume you mean vegetable production. They'd have to invest in specialised machinery and then try to hire very short term workers to harvest, and then have to try to coordinate markets with distributors who couldn't be arsed dealing with a mickey-mouse operation. The specialised fella struggles with all the economies of scale and efficiencies he has - how do you expect someone to do it with literally a tiny fraction of the same?

What you are saying is no more realistic than me saying you should work a 4 day week and plant your own garden. Sacrifice that one-day's pay per week just so you can supply your neighbours with vegetables at below the cost of you producing them. You should either start by doing that or else you should stop volunteering others to do it!

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923833#Comment_118923833

It would have to be a very significant food shortage for the current hostile environment for agriculture and food production to change.

Personally, as a farmer, I think it would take hundreds of millions starving to even slightly move the dial.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923899#Comment_118923899

So we will just meat... great...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923929#Comment_118923929

That's your choice. If the public spend decades driving down the price of food, don't be surprised when there is nobody left to produce it.

There are no rules on buying land. You can buy some yourself and grow veg on it if you want. Come back to us in a few years to let us know how you are getting on.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923949#Comment_118923949

your all talk... i do grow veg... Donald the name suits you as you know nothing about what food security means... they don't sell it in supermarkets...

goldenmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923915#Comment_118923915

I agree, and you'll notice I did use the words "acute" and "great degree".

I empathise with your situation. I have a relative who farms and he says it's the worst it's been in his 40 years.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923989#Comment_118923989

How many acres do you grow and what types? Or do you have a hobby patch out the back?

In pre-famine Ireland, the average labourer did hard manual labour and ate what would be considered today to be 50 portions of potatoes per day in order to fuel him. That's not a typo. Today, you could grow the potatoes to sell to that man to feed him those 50 portions a day every day for a year, and the price you'd receive in total for that year's supply (not the profit now, the price) would be in or around the price of the cheapest iphone on the market.

Here is the current prices for Rooster potatoes. A 1-tonne box is averaging at 400 Euro for a tonne. https://www.ifa.ie/markets-and-prices/potato-market-update-13th-april/

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924012#Comment_118924012

Agriculture in Europe is in existential trouble.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923915#Comment_118923915

So you a real farmer... what direction should we go... i am just interested in food security... my actual farming knowledge is limited but i am interested...

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923949#Comment_118923949

The public have no choice in the pricing of food, its the buyers (aldi, Musgrave etc) that dictate the price, the bigger the buyer the bigger the buying power, those who can buy produce cheapest get the customers, as long as we (farmers) think the public has any say in what they spend on groceries we're immediately on an us versus them footing, why would you think joe public have any power to decide what they pay, the blame lies with massive buyers who in turn guarantee a certain price to farmers who have to break their backs working twice as hard to make marginally more because that's what they've been told by farm advisors with the last 3 decades, blaming the public for the low cost of produce is simplistic and stupid

I'd imagine with the type of attitude that blames the public for the low prices farmers get you buy the most expensive beef/lamb/hoggett ration you can get from your supplier as you don't want to be seen leading by bad example, you surely don't bother getting quotes when building a shed or getting work done around the farm as you pay top price for everything to be sure you're getting top quality, do you price around for fertiliser or just tell them send out the dearest as you know the producers will benefit from the extra few bob, and no doubt yourself or the wife have never set foot in aldi or tesco and drive to your nearest city to buy from the best artisan organic food retailers, no? Didn't think so

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924089#Comment_118924089

The public elect politicians who decide public policy. And that public policy is cheap food. Not sure why you are going on about shed building costs. Either way, as I am sure you are aware, if you want to obtain some financial help towards building a shed (many industries get similar development grants), well you will be getting a much higher quote for your grant spec shed. And you won't be getting your buddy Mick from down the pub to put in your lights for you either.

Let's see whether the public moan if/when the prices of their weekly groceries go up! Come back to me at the end of the year and we'll see whether they care about the price they pay.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923949#Comment_118923949

go to bed...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924115#Comment_118924115

Lol. Any more scatterbrained ideas highlighting your utter ignorance of the topic?

How are ya getting on searching for the "grants for meat production" that farmers are currently getting? I know you searched for them. Didn't find 'em yet?

Didn't Eamonn Ryan have one once about people in apartments growing their own veg in windowboxes? That might be another one for you.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924124#Comment_118924124

I not silly enough to engage with Donald... sleep well... i have no interest i what farmer is getting... topic is FOOD SECURITY...

sleep well...

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924102#Comment_118924102

I never said they didn't care about the price they pay, I said they've no say in it, I've yet to see anyone looking to pay more for a service than they need to, hence my shed analogy, neither did I mention development grants for anything, also what politician has ever ran on a cheap food campaign (quality food maybe hidden amongst the pages of a political manifesto) cheap food is the product of a capitalist economy where competition is the deciding factor of the price

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924148#Comment_118924148

I'm merely trying to explain to you why your "idea" is unworkable (I could use more descriptive words but I won't). Most farmers are consumers of fruit and veg the same as anyone else, rather than producers. That is a result of public policy and it's not going to change anytime soon.

Ireland produces more than enough food to feed itself.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924177#Comment_118924177

Either way it is irrelevant. Small scale veg production is completely unviable. That is just fact. Hare-braned notions that every farmer should plant x% in vegetables is no more realistic than proposing that we could save lots of CO2 emissions by requiring all parcel delivery drivers to do deliveries only on bicycles.

maestroamado

Have a look at the OP and talk about that ... that's both for the ex president and mr watters... i think you missing the point of thread...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924185#Comment_118924185

incorrect see OP...

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924193#Comment_118924193

That's not my issue, my issue is with you blaming the public for the price farmers get for their produce, farmers problems are not the family of 5 next door trying to keep costs down to rear a family

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924233#Comment_118924233

Except I never did that. You projected that onto it yourself. I can't help if you do that

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924247#Comment_118924247

"The public spends decades driving down the price of food" maybe blame was too strong a word, I'll leave it to yourself what you want to call it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924260#Comment_118924260

Well you hardly think I was saying that the individual family of 5 next door were spending decades driving down the price of food.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924231#Comment_118924231

You can read this if you like:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/can-ireland-feed-itself-yes-a-nutritious-diet-not-at-the-moment-1.4824313

If prices rise enough to make something viable, and it looks like they will remain viable for long enough, then producers will produce. You, along with members of the general public, have grown accustomed to cheap food and food being only a minor part of your living expenses. The free market (actually it was a market stimulated to push prices down even further) was what everyone wanted when the times were good. So let the free market find it's own level now. Consumers can pay more and then it will be viable again. Any remaining subsidies should be removed as well. Let people pay the economic price for food. There would be less waste at least!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924193#Comment_118924193

Hare brained indeed

https://irishcycle.com/2017/03/06/ups-to-make-deliveries-by-cargo-bicycle-in-dublin-city-centre/

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924282#Comment_118924282

That article is over a month old... i seen it ages ago... you think things are ok and i do not agree so just leave it...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924470#Comment_118924470

"Dublin city centre"

There have always been bike couriers around Dublin. Even before the likes of Deliveroo. Mainly because it was often faster to travel by bicycle due to traffic so businesses would use them!

You may not be aware, but there is more to the country than D1 or D2. And an awful lot of delivery operatiors are franchisees. And it's a very low margin business. Good luck with your own future ventures if you want to set up a parcel bicycle delivery in a rural area. You can hop up on your bike there and pedal your 10 mile round trip with a package sent from China which cost less than 5 Euro for the item plus the shipping.