price of leased land

Tomjim

How much is leased land making this year

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237227/price-of-leased-land

Too much with the rise in costs.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780225#Comment_118780225

That’s fairly unhelpful for the OP @Grueller

Would leased ground not be more useful this year with lads not able to drive on owned ground with fertiliser?

Reggie.

Land here hitting €300 an acre. No fencing, no handling facilities and water out of a small river

Tomjim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780312#Comment_118780312

Does the 300 include entitlements ? - I would understand dairy men being able to afford that

I also heard recently of young trained farmers paying that type of money, who would be from a beef and sheep background - how can they afford that?

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780367#Comment_118780367

Naked land. Dairy farmer was the highest bidder on last news I heard on it

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780298#Comment_118780298

Tis an impossible question to answer though Dinzee too without having context. I have land long term at €280, no entitlements it's naked land.

Conacre depending on quality in North Wexford is from €250 to €480 is the range I am hearing on the grapevine and give the entitlements back is common. Does that answer help? Probably not with the range and without knowing quality etc.

lalababa

Is renting land viable in anything but dairy and maybe something unique like market gardening? Especially with those numbers above mentioned.

Anto_Meath

For the last few years around here land was making in and around €200 - €250 / acre. But this year there is very little of it moving & what I am hearing is mad money, 2 dairy lads got stuck in to 35 acres up the road, €13,000 is what was on it on Friday. Know the two boys and to see them you wouldn't think either of them would be the sort to give that sort of money for land. No entitlements with it either

DBK1

There’s a 40 acre block of hungry ground that never saw lime or fertiliser in a lifetime near here up for letting at the minute, the first bid was €300 an acre from a dairy man. It’s up at €400 at the moment and still going.

Cavanjack

Paying €150 the other side of my own ditch for 25 acres that I can cut silage off. Thought it plenty till I saw the posts above.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781439#Comment_118781439

That is about tops for land for drystock. ANC has a limit around 30+35 HA. Usually you any Glas you draw is off your own land. If it's naked you need to buy/ lease payments. If now and you give these back you are at nothing.

Top prices are usually paid by dairy farmers for land adjacent to them which they can add to there milking platform.

However I think a lot of lads do not do the maths.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781516#Comment_118781516

Also you’d find that naked land can make a lot more because you’ll have lads with spare entitlements they need land for bidding on it. If they have entitlements worth say €150-€200 an acre to go on it then paying €350-€400 is the same as giving €150-€200 for land with entitlements. Normally around here if entitlements are with the land they have to be paid back to the owner so they’re only a headache really for the lad taking it.

Tomjim

if you are working, and on the high rate of tax, then 300 per acre tax free looks very attractive

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781516#Comment_118781516

Yeah it’s naked land so leasing entitlement’s. Leaves the land closer to €100 an acre.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781439#Comment_118781439

Well, to be fair, squeezing 150 out of a Cavan man is like squeezing 500 out of anyone else 😋

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785257#Comment_118785257

Thats low but agreed 🤣

einn32

What's meadowing going for this year?

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783430#Comment_118783430

There's not a drystock enterprise that'll come near it for profit

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786973#Comment_118786973

The words “asses roar” applies.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783430#Comment_118783430

I often wonder do people really understand how good this is .we ll say a 50 acre farm in drystock,would it generate 10 k + bps of say 5k.someone on top rate tax pays over 7 k in tax on farm income so there left with 7.5 k after working it and their time. Lease it for say 200 e an acre +bps through the lease which comes to 15 k which is the equivalent to 30 k before tax.how many would stay in their current job if someone offered them 15 k more for less hrs. I know there is a huge emotional thing going on but still it's very attractive. The figures are just for the sake of comparison.this scheme is the reason so many farms are now selling to non farmers as with its benefit its often the equivalent of 6 % return on a relatively secure asset

Tomjim

I would agree but if you had say stand alone 50 acres, you would get 5k on glas, 1200 on ANC and entitlements of say 6k, that's a total payment of 12200 as it stands currently

If you made no money from the stock, you just broke even, there will always be money to spend on a working farm

If I got 300 per acre on a lease thats 15k and the beauty of it is that it's tax free - no contest

Tomjim

sorry KG i didn't see your post until I had posted, I think though we are saying the same thing.

What gets me about my current set up is the money I spend on the farm in the last few weeks ie 100 euro on diesel, 500 for fencing, 600 hitch cutting, vet last week 150. Always spending money.

Sorry now I don't want to come across as whinging but it's really hard to hold onto money

I thought about leasing a few years ago but at the time I was concerned about the entitlements, it looks more straight forward now with the new CAP

I suppose key is if you are in an area with a high demand for leased ground

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788702#Comment_118788702

You never said a truer word 'it's really hard to hold onto money' lately.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788629#Comment_118788629

First of all the 300/ acre if achievable probably includes BPS or you have to sell it on.

Assuming a 60 acre farm or 24HA.

The 18K is not totally tax free you pay PRSI and USC if under 65. A d USC if over it.

That 10% minimum. The auctioneer will take another 3-4%. Add in a 150/year for solicitor and stamp duty over lifetime of contract. 18 gross is about 15.3k net. You will probably need to insure the farm as well costing another 7-800 euro leaving 14.5k

Sixty acre farm will generate approx 7.5k in BPS, 4k in GLAS and 2.2k in ANC or 13.7k I. Payments. Any lad in drystock worth his salt will have a net margin if 200/acre giving another 12k.

Because you are an active farmer you get to write off a fair bit of stuff. 2/3's of cars costs, phone, electricity etc.there is the ability to write off other costs as well.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791795#Comment_118791795

Plenty of naked land making 300/ac. Maybe it depends on the area of the country. The idea though that we could get 60 acres of land near here for rent for 18k and be allowed to claim and keep 13.7k of payments on it isn't realistic by any stretch of the imagination.

You don't need the auctioneer and they don't do anything other than advertise it anyway so you can eliminate it.

For stamp duty, it is a once-off fee based on one years rent. It is waived if you go for a 6+ year lease.

Are drystock lads with land that qualifies for ANC really making 200 Euro/ac profit?

If you have the 60 acres and keep back the minimum to qualify for active status, sure you could rent the rest and play around on the other bit as a hobby and do your write downs based on that.

For insurance, you can make it a condition that the lessee has insurance. If they are an active farmer, it will just be under their policy for public liability. Different if you have buildings.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791795#Comment_118791795

Again I don't believe your figures and you shouldn't mislead people the way you do.

€300 is without BPS, The entitlements I've rented out is taxed alright, The other land thats rented with entitlemnts is grossing over €400/ac tax free including BPS. the auctioneer was 5% the first year, haven't seen him since. Farming 10 acres I get to write off all the expenses you mentioned.

Also if I was young enough I could have a salary as well so all in all, financially I should've leased years ago,

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791795#Comment_118791795

Bass if you ever decide to lease out your land will you give me a shout on it!

Land is easily making €300 an acre around here PLUS the BPS on top of that and we’re not in the golden vale by any means. I’d say there’s not an acre of even middling land leased in the country in the last 3 years for anything less than €250 plus BPS.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791795#Comment_118791795

‘Any lad in drystock worth his salt will have a net margin if 200/acre’

must be a lot of farmers not worth their salt so, given all the talk about farmers losing money……….

eire23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792017#Comment_118792017

Thats last comment is misleading. 200 a acre is the tops around here with the majority around 100-150 a acre and that would be for good land. Rough land can be got for less than 100. Land around here would be very good for the most part but dairy farms are scarce so maybe that's a factor.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792655#Comment_118792655

Do you mind me asking what part of the country you’re in? It’s certainly not the case in the vast majority of the country.

But even at your rate of €150 an acre that’s still double what Bass is calculating with a 60 acre block for a net spend of €4,300 (€72 per acre)

There is land being rented for €200 an acre around here but they’d be 5 and 10 year leases coming to the end of term and there’s not a hope the leases will be renewed at that value. There’s nothing to be got around here for anything even close to €200 the past few years and I’ve friends in different areas of the country that all say the same.

Tomjim

Is it possible to split the farm and lease it to 2 different farmers and be eligible for the tax relief for both farms?

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797728#Comment_118797728

Yes, mine is leased to three different farmers

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780367#Comment_118780367

Moe than likely it's naked land.Young farmers getting entitlements from National Reserve. Get entitlements at any cost seems to be the thing at the moment. Big problem is you have to pay this high rent every year. That would equate to about e730 ha .entitlements are per ha.. There is also a top for the first 5years .Take that there will be a big loss on the e730 ha hard to see anything left for your labour.

Mach Two

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798155#Comment_118798155

What will you do with the new rules coming out that you will have to farm your land to draw down the SFP.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118803486#Comment_118803486

You have to farm the land even at the moment to draw down the SFP, I think we'll be allowed rent them out still.

I know there's some concessions being proposed for selling in 2023/24.

But I want to keep them if I can,

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798216#Comment_118798216

I had a young farmer intereseted in my land, but I was doing a ten year lease and it would've been foolish to take him on as he had no track record of farming

roosterman71

Varies around me from €200 to €300. All naked, all to beef men

Dinzee Conlee

Just heard land up the road from me was taken by a dairy man, 360/acre…

einn32

I was told 100e an acre for meadowing. No fertiliser etc.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806954#Comment_118806954

For any lad with good land and not Milking, how would one even come close to it.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816403#Comment_118816403

How would anyone Including milking come close to it

GrasstoMilk

320/ac for 2 cut silage till September, you supply fert

350-400 for new land up for lease, entitlements go back to owner

tillage men mostly really

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816432#Comment_118816432

True as well.

When I saw it first I thought it was per hectare. I'd have shook hands at that, lol .

You could understand maybe this year, lads with big herds securing extra just in case but it was crazy last year as well.

The shi77ier the year for farming the dearer cattle and land get.

Pinsnbushings

There has to be a good element of gambling on getting entitlements and fear of nitrates etc. going on. The margin on those acres at those prices are razor thin to non existent in most cases.

Tomjim

the way it was explained to me recently was that if you are a young farmer, giving 300 per acre, you get free grass, if you factor in GLAS, ANC, additional entitlements for young farmers, maybe suckler payment, the subsidies will cover the cost of the lease

Hard to believe you could make money, but I suppose you would be building up capital through livestock ...

Donald Trump

I'd say this proposed 400/Ha for additional tillage won't help mad prices slow down anyway

Anto_Meath

There is 40 acres beside me for rent for 1 cut of meadow. They want €200 / acre.

If you put another €250 / acre on it for fert & €15 a bale to bale it @ 8 bales to the acre you are looking at nearly €70 a bale for silage off it, sure that couldn't pay anyone.

Pinsnbushings

Is it possible that some lads bidding up this ground don't yet realise how high input costs have risen and likely to rise? and are basing there figures off last year, probably the best year for farming in my lifetime..

A lad at work today tried to get fert from the coop and was surprised when they told him they weren't taking orders!! Just kinda showed how disconnected some farmers can be from what's going on out there.

The big tillage lads I suspect would know there figures so they obviously see a margin in it at 300 plus an acre for ground, so I dunno

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821390#Comment_118821390

Most lads just do not know how to cost the business side of farming. Remember from next year on payments will start to decrease and by 2028 60 k will be the maximum direct payment.

But even looking at a young farmer option to start now on naked land. The maximum payment he will probably get on the direct payment will be around 350/ HA ( entitlement+eco+ Criss + young farmer top up) about 140/ HA. He will need a six year lease to gaurantee 5 years of reap. Assuming he maxes 5k/ year over 5 years he will lose year one to costs of setting up scheme and because there will be ongoing certification it will cost 400/ year at a guess. Our of 25k he have 17.5 net. That is less than 60/ acre on a 50 acre farm over six years. ANC to bring in another 50/ acre leaves his payments covering 250 of the rental cost.

Will a drystock enterprise make 250/acre net margin.???

einn32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821266#Comment_118821266

I was told 100 per acre without fertiliser and 150 to 200 per acre with fertiliser.