You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644320#Comment_120644320

It’s like playing chess with a pigeon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644599#Comment_120644599

I've fleetingly heard of Q-Anon over the past few years but I know next to nothing about them. I always assumed they were psycho-nutjobs with unkempt beards who probably play computer games all day.

Turns out they're far worse than that.

The core QAnon conspiracy theory is that a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters are operating a global child sex trafficking ring conspired against former U.S. President Donald Trump during his term in office.

Some experts have described QAnon as a cult.

Followers of the conspiracy theorists say that the Trump administration secretly fought the cabal of pedophiles, and would conduct mass arrests and executions of thousands of cabal members on a day known as "the Storm" or "the Event".

These people are quite clearly nuts. Completely out of their mind.

But where's the evidence that Q-Anon are "influencing policy" in the UK and USA?

Which UK and US politicians are listening to the above nutjobs and basing public policy on what they say?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644625#Comment_120644625

Why do you think they're influencing policy in the UK?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644654#Comment_120644654

You said far-right online groups, such as QAnon, were influencing policy in the UK and US.

After what I read about QAnon, I find your allegation not only unsubstantiated - but bordering on conspiratorial.

If you're now saying QAnon are not influencing migration policy in the UK, which far-right groups are influencing public policy?

You made the claim, but are unprepared to back that claim up with hard evidence.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644674#Comment_120644674

You said far-right online groups, such as QAnon, were influencing policy in the UK and US.

Where? Was it in the same post where I bashed Christians (or however you phrased it)? Because that didn't happen.

After what I read about QAnon, I find your allegation not only unsubstantiated - but bordering on conspiratorial.

What allegation? That QAnon are influencing Republican policies? Can you not use google to see how many QAnon operatives now work for the state?

Here's an article from 2021

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/02/politics/local-elections-qanon-community-impact-soh/index.html

Here's another:

https://time.com/5955248/qanon-local-elections/

And of course there's the most famous QAnon acolyte, Marjorie Taylor Greene:

https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/legislator-criticism-of-a-candidates-conspiracy-beliefs-reduces-support-for-the-conspiracy-but-not-the-candidate-evidence-from-marjorie-taylor-greene-and-qanon/

If you're now saying QAnon are not influencing migration policy in the UK, which far-right groups are influencing public policy?

You made the claim, but are unprepared to back that claim up with hard evidence.

I find this hilarious that you have the gall to demand anything like evidence from me, when you just make things up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644693#Comment_120644693

As far as I'm aware, QAnon is effectively a cult conspiracy theory-movement. It doesn't seem to have any public policies, or policies that it recommends. Rather, it's a bunch of nutjobs in the United States. I wouldn't even call them far-right. They are just nutjobs.

I completely get your concern about the spread of this conspiracy nonsense. It's absurd.

But are Republican legislators influenced to pass legislation based on Q-Anon? Absolutely not - as bad as the conspiracy theory may be.

Unfortunately it seems conspiracy beliefs are strong across the board in the US.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644722#Comment_120644722

For example, MTG, who is a sitting legislator and a member of Qanon? She has got some power, especially sitting on committees.

By the by, I did find an article that explicitly lays out what I was saying, far better than I could ever. It even talks about the UK. It's 17 pages long, so I honestly don't expect you to read it. It can be summed up as:

Scholars have suggested that far-right attitudes contributed to and were normalised by the result of the Brexit referendum.

Abstract

In this article we carry out a geopolitical analysis of the turbulent breeze driving the EU into uncharted extremes. To do this we zoom in on three cases that we deem both a response to political extremism and a source of political extremism in themselves: France’s state of emergency, Brexit and the pyrrhic victory over the far-right in the Dutch elections of 2017 . Our analysis suggests that even though the political forces behind these events have praised their policies or electoral victories as bulwarks to keep extremism in check, the sort of extremism that they try to keep at bay is not as worrying as the counter-productive realpolitik of the traditional establishment they represent. By surreptitiously adopting precisely the kind of extremist political preferences that they claim to set themselves against, these politics show how the establishment in the EU is normalising the extreme geopolitics of exclusion that are structurally undermining the very principles of rule of law, liberal democracy and overall openness on which the EU is based. The result: what used to be easily dismissed as irrational or evil has become the everyday normal. The extremism we so much fear has become the new normality.

https://fennia.journal.fi/article/view/64568

This has been my point all along. Far right attitudes/ideas have become normalised and adopted by the centre right.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644722#Comment_120644722

You edited your post there, so I didn't get a chance to reply. Yes, as you say, there ARE a lot of nut jobs in the states. Can you show me left wing (far or centre) legislators that are believing in this cabal, the same way I have shown you that Republican legislators are members of Qanon?

And secondly, which is more dangerous to the country?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644740#Comment_120644740

Brexit was not a far-right phenomenon. It was originally argued for in the 1980s by far-left MPs, such as Tony Benn. Revolutionary Communist, Claire Fox, was in favour of it, too. I could go on and on and on. The far-left have always been strong on Brexit, for the past 40-years.

In other words, I don't accept the premise of that article.

Furthermore, you have supplied no evidence whatsoever that the UK migrant policy was influenced by far-right groups. No evidence that far-right online groups were influencing public policy in the West, either.

And you continue to allege that normal subjects of discussion - such as migration and abortion - are somehow far-right by default.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644759#Comment_120644759

I don't deny for a second that many people, many Republicans, have a questionable opinion of QAnon.

What I'm saying is that this isn't evidence that public policy in the US is actively influenced by these groups.

It's only evidence that conspiracy theories in the US are way too popular.

nachouser

Just a reminder that esky claimed in the past to have a twitter account with 200k or so followers.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644999#Comment_120644999

The bullsh1t meter must have lost calibration at that one.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644625#Comment_120644625

Marjorie Taylor Greene

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645100#Comment_120645100

What public policies.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644795#Comment_120644795

I don't deny for a second that many people, many Republicans, have a questionable opinion of QAnon.

What I'm saying is that this isn't evidence that public policy in the US is actively influenced by these groups.

It's only evidence that conspiracy theories in the US are way too popular.

Just so I'm clear, you think MTG puts aside her Qanon beliefs when legislating?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645402#Comment_120645402

What are the specific Q-Anon public policy positions she is actively seeking to adopt and implement?

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645422#Comment_120645422

Probably not linking Marcus Rashford to Jimmy Saville. Oh, wait, that was you.

Just for yuks - human cargo.

Snake Plisken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642653#Comment_120642653

Just ask Mark Sound Migration. Malone The absolute definition of an NGO Grifter

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646030#Comment_120646030

Malone would have made a fine mid ranking Stasi operative, had he been born in East Germany sixty years ago

Igotadose

Scammers ripping off right-wing cult members. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so frightening. Such blind worship:

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-bucks-promise-wealth-maga-130000452.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647454#Comment_120647454

John Amann told NBC News he bought $2,200 worth of Trump Bucks and other items over the past year only to discover they were worthless when he tried to cash them in at his local bank. So he’s gone on Twitter to warn other Trump supporters not to fall for this scam.

I have no sympathy for people like him. How stupid does a person have to be to buy "Trump Bucks" to cash in at a local bank.

Roadkill has a higher IQ than that.

HalloweenJack

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65794363

i'm sure they weren't thinking of this when they instituted this law.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689474#Comment_120689474

I presume that the hope would be that by being an open civilisation, these people we welcome in will see that gay people aren’t evil, sick or something to be avoided.

Can’t change minds if you exclude people.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369533#Comment_120369533

Easily passes the" fair comment" test

Fair comment, a principle in common law, allows individuals to express their honest opinions on matters of public interest without fear of legal consequences. It provides protection against defamation claims by recognizing that reasonable and honestly held opinions, even if they are critical or harsh, are essential in public discourse. To qualify as fair comment, the statement must be based on true facts, relate to a matter of public interest, and be made without malice or improper motive.

growleaves

"Heres what the CSO says on the matter"

Made a mistake there. Sorry

"When it's literally what you're doing and others have done, since time immemorial. The fear of the outsider, coming over here, taking our women. Same energy."

My point is the rhetoric you're using and has been used for decades and never seems to change one bit.

1999: "You're small-minded."

(24 years later, after some of the largest proportionate mass migrations in Irish history have taken place and the population has been broadly accepting of this and welcoming to outsiders)

2023: "You're small-minded"

The only thing you will accept as broad-mindedness seems to be an open-ended commitment to taking in more large numbers of people forever.

In all of the 190+ countries in the world there are majorities of people who want to have their own country and don't want unlimited mass immigration of outsiders. From India to England to Timbucktoo. Talk to a Ghanian nationalist or a Egyptian shopkeeper. Its human nature 101 everywhere.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120690796#Comment_120690796

You think the CSO is fudging the numbers?

Do you have a source for your claim that there's over a million foreign born residents in Ireland, or do facts that can be backed up not matter?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120690806#Comment_120690806

I meant that I made a mistake.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120690796#Comment_120690796

You know some people are small minded. It’s a fact. I live in a small village and there’s a good few here.

I don’t know about your last claim either. We might not want unlimited mass immigration, but we may have no choice. The world may see mass emigration in a few decades as some countries will just become unbearable to live in some months of the year, due to fires, droughts etc.

tesla_newbie

What’s the ultimate goal or is it designed to be perpetual?

why say should we accept a half a million but then close the drawbridge?, that would mean denying entry to millions and millions, why are the people already here more deserving than those stuck In where ever? where is the sweet spot in terms of “ showing we are progressive “ ?

Endless numbers of questions yet all we get is dogma

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691394#Comment_120691394

Absolutely not .

But many are not just leaving their countries because of economic reasons . But because they know there is better, freer way to live . They can practise their religion freely , their children, including the girls, can be educated , the women can go to university with their peers and work with equal rights. No female genital mutilation or cow towing to corrupt officials telling them how to vote (👀well mostly anyhow !)

Sure, some are very conservative in their beliefs and values, but not unlike a lot of Irish people in that regard. .

(Might be future Aontú voters and who knows they may yet get one or two more candidates in ;) )

But are they a risk to our democracy , no.

Large bottle small glass

Lost in the middle of these left/right debates is one of the real threats to society and the democratic process is how information is being controlled in the modern world including by governments/state agencies.

https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1607378386338340867?t=2PPMHIznShNRRw-ALymZDQ&s=19

The above twitter post relates entirely to COVID and the interference by both USA administrations to social media posts that ran counter to their policy; qualifications, rational argument, scientific data be damned.

In the UK the 77th brigade did similar

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/29/armys-information-warfare-unit-monitored-covid-lockdown-critics/

Now we can't have absolute free speech but in the middle of a pandemic we needed to listen to appropriately qualified alternative voices instead many were deliberately deplatformed/had tweets deleted by bots/lay people.

The legacy media should have challenged the narrative but didn't. When I know Google twitter files in Irish media I get close to SFA.

This isn't China or Russia, but two leading lights of western democracy.

On China, the story below is an example of how someone high profile in the west is sh1tcanned due to his anti China remarks and the world moves on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/sports/basketball/enes-kanter-freedom-nba-activism.html