Large residential development in Blanch Centre

daymobrew

On Friday afternoon the sign for a planning application was put up close to the library in Blanch Centre. The application is for 352 apartments in 6 blocks between 5 and 13 storeys in height. It looks like they will be built over the library and multi storey car parks.

The drawings won't be online for a week or so (FCC Planning have to scan them in).

T-Maxx

Yay more traffic sure why not

Treppen

Where they gonna go to school?

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118772676#Comment_118772676

This is the bigger issue! Now, most of the apartments are not really designed for families - 176 are studio or 1 bedroom, 155 are 2 bedroom and 21 are 3 bedroom.

For traffic, it would be hoped that some people would get the bus to city centre or maybe cycle if they work in one of the business parks in Ballycoolin or Damastown.

Flinty997

Least you're close to bus and even the train isn't that far away.

ultraviolence

This development sounds like something suited for the inner city, not a suburban area.

The obsession with 1bedroom apartments & high density continues. Very small number of 3 bedrooms. Will this be a build to rent in the end?

I see dublin 15 is the target area for these apartment towers. If only these developers understand that local infrastructre is already at capacity and struggling.

As someone said above, where are they going to school? Schools which have that area in their catchment, are they at capacity? Will these children have to travel all across dublin 15 for a school place? Is the GP available to register over 400 new patients? Will these residents have to travel elsewhere to see a doctor?

They say the bluecarpark is to be upgraded from 4 to 6 stories to 'replace' the parking being removed. Why not add an extra floor or two just to be sure? Will residents be using these spaces? Reading the application it seems to be that residents will be using these spaces as they are only receiving around *110?

13 storey is the highest block.... all of these towers need to be capped at 3/4 stories. Keep 13 stories for the inner city, not the suburbs.

I am sure all of those future residents are going to enjoy the christmas season when the shopping centre is gridlock. Lovely views from the balconies.

I dont understand why do they want to build homes in a shopping centre? Are they going to choose another area of the centre and slowly change it from a shopping district to a residential area? Not understanding this at all. The area is fine as it is, in my opinion.

Overall, not a fan of this.

Treppen

It all seems a bit much to me, considering the other high rise apartments going in over a t St. Mochtas too (all rentals, no owner occupy).

hardybuck

Good to see more infill on this underdeveloped site.

A huge shortage of every type of accommodation in the area and the additional capacity will be snapped up.

In walking distance of schools, a number of major employers and a future Bus Connects hub.

Larbre34

Usual playbook here, apply for massive overdevelopment, be granted maybe 60% of the original quantum.

The 13 storey height is no accident, that's the established height of the Crowne Plaza and apartments.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775907#Comment_118775907

The site may be 'underdeveloped' but the surrounding area certainly isn't.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775907#Comment_118775907

I agree, though this may be a bit excessive for the current site.

The Blanchardstown Centre will be a BusConnects hub. It is vitally important that more residential accommodation is built within walking distance. The site has plenty of capacity, we also need to turn the Centre more generally from a private car destination to a public transport destination.

In the latter regard, I would be concerned if this particular development interfered with any potential public transport corridor e.g. the old Metro West alignment.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788027#Comment_118788027

I believe this site could handle this amount and more. I note that there are plans submitted to build 889 apartments in Dundrum shopping center, in addition to the hundreds that have been already been built there and on sites around it, on a much smaller and more developed site.

If Metro West ever goes ahead it won't be in place until at least 30 years from now. They don't believe that there is sufficient demand for it at the moment - there would have to be at least 15k passengers per direction per hour. More density on this site may contribute towards more infrastructure and facilities being located in the area.

ultraviolence

'we also need to turn the Centre more generally from a private car destination to a public transport destination'.

Blanchardstown SC has, is and will always be a public transport destination. When was the shopping centre not a public transport destination? Buses have always served it.

Its not either or. Public transport and all other modes of transport can continue using the shopping centre, as it always has been the case. Even with the proposed interchange, the shopping centre caters to all modes. Its not turning from 'private vehicles' to buses.

Those buses that begin at the interchange will be travelling to other residential areas as well. They are not just serving those proposed apartment blocks. I dont think an interchange should be the reason why a 13 storey block should get the green light. Public transport can be supported without it.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788027#Comment_118788027

The Metro West route is along Blanchardstown Road South and out over Snugborough Road bridge. I cannot remember whether it went in front of the library or along where the buses terminate.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788906#Comment_118788906

I completely disagree.

High density development at public transport nodes is a no-brainer and should be first option.

Whether or not the particular development is suitable is a different question, but I haven't seen the details.

KaneToad

I think this is exactly the type of development needed for Dublin. High density with loads of amenities within walking/cycling distance and good public transport links to city centre.

If the architecture is done right and produces spacious/comfortable units, rather than eeking out as many as possible, it could be a very desirable place to live.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792351#Comment_118792351

Spacious/comfortable units - this is the key. I read that regulations allow BTR (Build to Rent) apartments to be smaller than normal and allow for communal spaces within the complex. This is not good practice for building a community.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792985#Comment_118792985

Agreed.

We don't need to repeat the mistakes made with apartment developments of the past.

Space is not just a luxury, it's a necessity. If we are building up (which I think we should) we should give ample sq footage to all units. If we build shoeboxes they will quickly become short term rental solutions. Transient populations and no sense of community.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793591#Comment_118793591

I agree with a lot of your points there, but I think there's a need for every type of accommodation.

Look at the mess that was caused when bedsits were banned a few years ago. Someone took a notion that they were bad when many people needed and wanted that type of accommodation. Many would argue that it added real fuel to the accommodation crisis.

Many people also need short and medium term rental solutions. At the moment there's just 4 x 1 bed properties, and 15 x 2 beds, available to rent anywhere in Dublin 15 for example. This site has the capacity to address some of those supply gaps, which could free up capacity in potential family homes in the areas nearby.

daymobrew

The planning application details are online but no documents available yet.

https://planning.agileapplications.ie/fingal/application-details/91856

rameire

Documents are up.

Image shown I believe also shows the planned Blue Mall extension.

miamee

If I am looking at that correctly, they are planning on building on the entire car park next to the library?

rameire

Yes, there will be an underground car park there and they will have green areas and courtyards within the car park area between the buildings.

85603

page 2 of planning document.

T-Maxx

Should've spent a few minutes to find a local Irish traffic congestion. Poor effort hence 1/10.

MacronvFrugals

Few places as dense as D15 in Dublin now, lots of supply coming/planned with Ashtown, developments like this etc

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835301#Comment_118835301

We are multi cultural now. So our traffic gridlock works exactly the same as everywhere else.

rameire

Development has been Granted Permission.

Larbre34

Good.

Will be interesting to see if any third party appeals come in against it and why they might.

The Shopping Centre operators will be licking their lips, 1,000 new punters living 50 metres away.

ultraviolence

More city centre type apartments being planned. LRD0001/S3 https://planning.agileapplications.ie/fingal/application-details/93657

Screenshot below of the proposed development at blakestown 'roundabout'.

Tallest block = 16 stories according to application.

971 apartments in this scheme including other non residential uses... seems to be apart of a larger development of the entire shopping. centre. Future goal is to increase population of shopping centre to 8,000-12500 in different phases. I guess this is phase2?

miamee

Oh my God, they will tower over the houses and apartments on the other side of the road.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885728#Comment_119885728

Very interesting.

After that, there won't be a huge amount of unused space.

Any further phase would have to see an intensification of existing use either through demolishing or building above.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885950#Comment_119885950

Slight overreaction.

They will be 50 metres from the nearest home on the Whitestown side. And although they will be visible, they won't take any light away from those homes as the southerly and westerly aspect will be unobstructed.

Also, they aren't "city centre" style apartments, they are higher density living at well served public transport hubs in a wider urban area. Its what cities do all over the World.

We cannot expect to sustainably take Dublin forward without these scale of developments at strategic locations. Again, they'll probably get 60 to 70% of what they've applied for here, instead of a max 16 storeys, they'll get 12 or 13.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886867#Comment_119886867

Agreed, and there are a number of similar locations around Dublin where similar development is taking place. If we are ever to house our children, we need these kinds of developments.

Citizen Six

Some of the earlier posts calling for 3/4 stories max, and that this is more suited to the inner city, are totally laughable.

ultraviolence

Yes, city centre/inner city type apartment blocks.

I just find it interesting how its okay to build high rise apartments in suburban locations outside the m50 but when similar developments are proposed within the m50 and in the dcc boundary, people become rowdy and not supportive. Buildings of 16 stories and up should be built within the dublin city council boundaries, not outside the m50, making people commute on already crowded public transport. Build your skyscraper fantasies in the city centre where they belong.

Its not even just the shopping centre, city centre like apartment blocks are being proposed at the diswellstown road. Situated beside the newly built apartments near st mochtas that were just purchased by an investment fund. I dont recall diswellstown road being a 'transport hub'?

Forgot to mention but in the application it stated that the last phase of around 2000 residential units are dependent on the delivery of a luas to blanchardstown which will not be happening anytime soon so thats a bit of good news!

If 16 stories is appropriate for the suburbs then i would love to know what is appropriate for dublin city council locations because i am not seeing any 16 story apartments! A lot of newish apartment blocks are nowhere near 16 stories.

Larbre34

Donnybrook, right now

Sandyford, right now

Cabra / Finglas South, right now

Please stop talking baseless nonsense.

ultraviolence

I don't remember saying there was not any 16 storey buildings but plenty of apartment blocks are nowhere near that high when they should be as they are within dublin city council boundaries. Plenty of new build to rent apartments not even at 10 stories let alone 16.

'Densify' the city centre and inner city first before worrying about suburban locations outside the m50.

My original comment was not positive or negative. I just provided the details about the development.City centre like apartment blocks are what they are and will be referred to as such.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889246#Comment_119889246

Not even mentioning Cherrywood, which is also inside the M50 and probably has more than those three put together.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889360#Comment_119889360

Density is needed in more than just the inner city. Dublin needs high development in places like Blanch, unless you'd prefer the city to just keep moving further and further out?

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889246#Comment_119889246

That Ballymore one in Finglas/Cabra does look imposing, but it's fine, right beside a huge industrial area. Great location for residents, beside the canal and new train station.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889675#Comment_119889675

My point precisely.

But @ultraviolence, the location inside or outside the M50 is largely irrelevant. Its about strategic development locations in the contiguous urban area that are, or are planned to be, public transport hubs and places with excellent services.

Blanchardstown is both of those and is just 1.5 kms from the M50 if you're counting.

ultraviolence

Dublin can't move further out as it has a greenbelt. D15 is covered by a greenbelt - cant speak for non-fingal areas but we have greenbelts over here. You cant build wherever you want so 'moving futher out' should not be an issue as it cannot happen as of now. There were many requests from developers to change zonings from greenbelt to residential example at clonsilla station to residential but were rightfully rejected as greenbelt land needs to stay greenbelt to prevent dublin from extending further out.

There's a difference between development and a 16 story block. This is part of an overall development, not having a 16 story block is not going to do any harm. Plenty of apartments are to be built if people would read the application that was linked.

The developer of these apartments understands that busconnects will not be enough and therefore around 2000 units will not begin construction until a luas services the location. Such a 'transport hub' this is.

One development that comes to my mind are the blocks on griffith avenue, such a central location near many bus routes and amenities but nothing over 10 stories? Maybe if developments like this were taller, you wouldnt have developers coming outside the m50 wanting to build higher? Why are apartments at this location not over 15stories?

hardybuck

I hope to see some of the local representatives making submissions to support this proposal rather than their usual NIMBYism.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890559#Comment_119890559

This post doesn't make any sense at all unless your position is that the population must remain stable. If you want to preserve greenbelts, you have to build upwards, especially along transport corridors.

Edit: If a station was built at Porterstown, this development would be 22 minutes from DART West.

kearnc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886953#Comment_119886953

The people that support this type of accommodation here are the same type of people that support it in the city centre, I highly doubt anyone here is saying yeah build it in Blanch but not the Docklands.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890658#Comment_119890658

18 months out from the local elections, I seriously doubt it.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890559#Comment_119890559

But it is happening. I regularly pass through the back ends of Clonee, and there's new estates popping up all the time, where it used to be farmland.

I also don't think it's a fair comparison between Griffith Woods and this proposed development. How many apartments are planned for Blanch, 350 or so? Griffith Woods has 1600. At first I thought it would be an overdevelopment of the site, but it actually fits in really well.

The rents for a one bed start at €1900 though, which is insane.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119894017#Comment_119894017

I'm going to ask anyone who knocks on my door how many submissions they made and how many were positive ones.

ultraviolence

Im not quite sure how my post does not make sense as someone said if you dont build up, dublin will extend further out and i said this area is covered by greenbelts. Preserving greenbelts is not my decision its the councils and i gave one example out of many where they rejected rezoning greenbelt. So Dublin extending further out should not be a problem over here.

'Building up along transport corridors' this is already happening along the train line.. 2 large applications currently with ABP. One of those applications want 24 blocks of apartments, 12storey tallest block,(804 apts total)... so building near the railway line is happening.

@ Citizen Six There are 972 apartments in this scheme. planning permission was given for another few hundreds of apartments near blanch library and more are planned as this is an overall development for the area. They have a target population of around 8-12thousand.

Larbre34

Yes. Whats the problem of a target population of 8-12,000in a well serviced area?

I acknowledge that provision of Schools is an issue that will need serious and prior attention, but other than that, its good news for businesses, employers, retailers and local clubs and interest groups.