Six Nations 2022 - England v Ireland, 12/03/22, KO 4.45pm - RTÉ2, RTÉ Player, ITV1, ITV Hub

KieferFan69

Don’t post here often but it’s a shame to see the more often high standards of the chat polluted by angry, negative new posters who seem to appear every spring like pests. Just letting the regulars know they’re appreciated.

He seems to be getting called out on the scrum but I think Sheehan had a fine game. Very zippy for such a big man with good hands. Very happy with where we are with hookers right now. Two young exciting players and a dependable veteran. Finding a replacement hooker after Best used to keep me up at night.

dublin49

In my opinion there is a case for neutralising the scrum somewhat by reducing the cost of what at times are very debatable refereeing decisions.I would prefer to see a free kick awarded for scrum supremacy and you cannot opt to take the scrum again.This would play to the advantage of the better scrum but not to the extent that the match is almost determined by this one facet of play.I think the yellow card punishment for having an inferior prop is also too penal and should be looked at.How does potentially reducing the inferior scrum by a man help the game as a spectacle.

BoardsMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788470#Comment_118788470

Note sure I agree. I think we need the laws of the game to continue to support the need to have different shapes & sizes of players. If scrum was no lnoger the source of penalties then teams might pick more backrow type physiques to cover prop. These types of things make our game more close to rugby league.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788470#Comment_118788470

I disagree. That would go against one of the basic principles of the laws.You must allow a team be rewarded for superior skill within an area of the game.

What punishment would you look at?

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788615#Comment_118788615

Why is winning your own ball not sufficient reward for good scrummaging?

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788470#Comment_118788470

I think one of the things WR could look at is that a free awarded from a scrum infringement cannot be a new scrum. Ball must be played. I mean they have eliminated a scrum and taken the advantage away from the attacking team by allowing a ball held up in the end goal area to be kicked from the try line by the defending team.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788615#Comment_118788615

I did say a free kick would be awarded ,or maybe a hybrid penalty where you cannot kick for the posts.Havent thought through all the unintended consequences ,my post is motivated by the belief that supremacy in the scrum is too highly rewarded,for instance ,if your lineout misfires all day you lose possession ,hefty enough penalty but not fatal,if the ref makes a judgement call that your scrum is inferior it can be fatal.I do think if you are the stronger scrummaging team you should gain advantage,just not so much.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788856#Comment_118788856

You cant really have it as a penalty if you cant kick for the posts. I dont think supremacy in scrum is too highly rewarded. Its different to a lineout because for obvious reasons where scrums and lineouts take place.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788954#Comment_118788954

the powers that be can make any changes to the rules they wish ,look at the the new 50:22 rule ,a try used to be worth 3 points,the game constantly evolves,they tinker with the maul ,the new drop out ,I don't expect I will get my wish any time soon but I think Saturday's match was a good illustration of how the scrum can be manipulated to give a inferior team a match winning advantage ,I would prefer if a strong scrum was a string to your bow rather than it being a get out of jail card for some very powerful sides.

molloyjh

The big problem with a free kick is that it actually rewards the weaker scrummaging team. The stronger scrum will get the ball back anyway, but off the scrum they will do so with 8 defenders tied into the scrum. The attacking back row will be able to get away quicker and the attacking side will get quick, front foot ball with better numbers to attack with. A free kick would give them static ball against a set defence. The weaker team no longer has any disadvantage to contend with.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788440#Comment_118788440

Yeah we’re in a good place at hooker. Herring was great when he came on at the weekend. In at first receiver a good bit as well.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789099#Comment_118789099

yeah good point,although if you are camped on own goal line a free kick might be a welcome relief.Improvements to the game don't have to be perfect ,just better than whats currently there ,but I take your point.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786662#Comment_118786662

Right enough, but he's dominant. A physical freak. We've no one close in terms of that. How the refs manage him is another story.

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788311#Comment_118788311

They're not soft, just all very similar. Not likely to stand up to a real physical challenge in my opinion.

Why the need for the dig at the end? I'm arguing in good faith. Why do so many here resort to insult when challenged?

'I shouldn't be engaging with someone who doesn't argue in good faith'. The notions you have about yourselves, the self importance.

Dubinusa

I think Raynal lost the plot somewhat. He had a poor game. He's normally ok and a decent ref! However, the AR's need to do better. If the scrum are being manipulated illegally, the AR's should be in the refs ear.

But, fair play to England! They used this ploy to the full extent and benefited. Could we have counteracted this? Surely with all the experience of our pack, some type of counteract should be available?

On the lock forwards, I don't look at Itoje as an enforcer. Nor Willemse or any such player. I think they are more physical and very powerful. Willemse obviously due to his physical size and Itoje due to his athleticism and power. Because of these qualities they appear dominant, and they are.

Our locks while not being as big as some are gritty and very skilled. Our u20's are winning with a smaller pack and average sized locks! England's pack was listed as being lighter than ours! But, from the close up angles on TV, it was deceiving. Sinckler is a big boy. He looks bigger that Healy. The replacement th for England made Kilcoyne look like he was a boy. The man was huge!

Which brings about the point of listed size. I think we overstate our size. Compare the physique of the packs. To me it looked like England were a bigger pack in weight.

I would not write England off! They are a side in transition and by the world cup, could be outstanding. SA were dogshit 18 months out from the 2019 world cup. We were #1 ranked and look what happened. We are doing well, in fact, Farrell has put together quite a good deep squad. The problems though are evident! There is a lack of depth in certain positions.

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788440#Comment_118788440

Sheehan was lightweight in the scrum. The main source of the problem.

New posters call it as they see it. Poor performance v 14 men. Hopefully much improved v Scotland. I'm lucking forward to celebrating a Triple Crown. Not angry. If negative means being honest I'll take it all day over craven brown nosing to get thrown a few scraps from the regulars table😉

Pussyhands

Another thing that annoys me big time is players holding onto the ball but acting like they're placing it. i.e they have their two hands on the ball stretched out a bit but they're keeping pressure to stop the defender from stealing it. You never see penalties given for that unless the jackal is unmovable.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788854#Comment_118788854

I actually think the goal line drop out for held up ball is a great rule change (I know you're not criticizing it), it rewards good defense and incentivizes attacking teams to bide their time.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789084#Comment_118789084

I know world rugby can make changes to the laws. Im more than aware of that but changing a basic philosophy around laws isnt a good thing. The scrum isnt in general a get out of jail card and i dont see changes needed like you are uggesting.

ersatz

Interesting take on the scrum problems Ireland experienced, less to do with England purposely wheeling and more to do with Healy getting his feet wrong...

https://youtu.be/4j_gEVLS6Kw

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789440#Comment_118789440

I don't know where you're getting this idea of being bullied or needing an enforcer. Those days are long gone. Some big lump who tries to throw a dig or a cheap shot. With the cameras watching every blade of grass, you'll find that same lump sitting on the sidelines scratching his arse.

You can big up all those English forwards and their power, strength etc. The Irish lads are better ball players, better on their feet, able to link up out wide, better passers and generally more skilled.

Not too many English forwards scoring tries this year.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789949#Comment_118789949

Not too many English players scoring tries this year!

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789452#Comment_118789452

I think Raynal lost the plot somewhat. He had a poor game. He's normally ok and a decent ref! However, the AR's need to do better. If the scrum are being manipulated illegally, the AR's should be in the refs ear.

In Raynal’s defence, sort of. He was on the wrong side of the scrum to see what Genge was doing. Whoever the AR was on that side in the first half should have picked up on it. Especially since Furlong was pointing it out to him.

Kylie06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118787836#Comment_118787836

It’s regrettable you allow yourself to become so upset on chat forums about stuff you watch on the tv.

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790279#Comment_118790279

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789949#Comment_118789949

Those English forwards were in a WC final. It's a physical game where size, presence and attitude count.

Having great ball players is great... but what happens when the other team won't give them the ball. You can dominate and enforce legally. It's not about off the ball thumps.

We're minnows on the World stage. Every home nation bar us has reached a WC semi final. Out of 9 World Cups.

SA have won 3/7 WC they were in. New Zealand 3/9. England won one and lost the 1991, 2007 and 2019 finals. We can't get past a quarter final. Obviously powerful packs help. New Zealand less so but make up with consummate skill, confidence, tradition and coolness under pressure. See where we lack in a few areas?

France have lost 3 finals in 1987, 1999 and 2011. Big ugly packs and skillful backs.

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790086#Comment_118790086

They might score them next year when it really matters 😉

I'm really sorry for upsetting the love in!

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790847#Comment_118790847

Having great ball players is great... but what happens when the other team won't give them the ball. You can dominate and enforce legally. It's not about off the ball thumps.

Yet the English pack didn’t do any of those things on Saturday.

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790923#Comment_118790923

For 14 men they did too much. The match can only be viewed through the prism of 8 yellow cards to 0. All the advantages that bestows on the team with 15.

Ireland will lose to Scotland, like in 2010 when trying to win a triple crown at home, if they play like that again.

I hope they improve vastly.

Achilles Knee

You'll all be glad to know I'm leaving the forum😂

I can't abide dishonesty or unwillingness to acknowledge our weaknesses. You'll never improve if you engage in a circle jerk of self praise.

I think we'll improve enough to win the Triple Crown.