30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

magicbastarder

oh, i'd agree that more detailed examination is necessary - that was really just a quick comment in reaction to blanket statements like 'ireland's road's are extremely safe' can hide more interesting data. the examiner article is quite short on detail too.

magicbastarder

case in point - running with the figures from NL - if we want to compare with ireland, let's remove the cyclists from the figures, because that's going to create a massive and debatably unfair difference obviously.

446 non-cyclist deaths last year is 0.00255% of the population in NL. in ireland, there were 148 non-cyclist deaths - or 0.00296% - roughly 15% higher than NL.

but if you compare the 'raw' figures, it's 0.0042% in NL, and 0.0031% in ireland. that's a difference of approx 25% with ireland now being higher.

the fatality figure goes from being measurably higher in NL for all road deaths to being measurably lower, after you take the cyclist fatalities out.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814163#Comment_120814163

Yes, you need to examine stats properly and see what they actually say before throwing up headlines. Unfortunately, The Examiner didn't do so.

Would also agree that blanket statements like "Ireland's roads are extremely safe" are unhelpful and potentially misleading. With 155 road deaths last year and many more injuries, they obviously weren't extremely safe for the victims.

However, it's a statistical fact that Ireland has some of the safest roads in Europe, in terms of fatalities per head of population.

Source: https://transport.ec.europa.eu/background/2021-road-safety-statistics-what-behind-figures_en

But even still, that doesn't tell the full story. For example, drivers in larger (and ostensibly "more dangerous") countries like Italy or Poland may make longer journeys more frequently, leading to more cases of driver fatigue and associated collisions and fatalities.

Always dangerous to draw conclusions from any set of statistics without checking to see what exactly they measure, or considering whether or not they tell the full story!

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813852#Comment_120813852

You are comparing Ireland of today with some rose tinted view of Ireland "back in the day" (a.k.a. when it was a third world country) which is patently absurd. Speed limits (the topic of this thread) were higher "back in the day" and dangerous driving was much more commonplace. Dramatically so in both cases. There have also been widespread changes to street layouts including pedestrianisation projects, "build outs" at junctions and general redesigns of streets (like this for example).

And a lot of people out walking and cycling back in the good old days weren't doing so by choice - they were broke and poor. Not having a car can seriously impair a person's quality of life, restrict where you can live, complicate any journey you intend to undertake etc. Plus, people didn't have anywhere to go anyway, as they were broke, poor and likely jobless. So while that might have led to less traffic, it's difficult to say that this was a good thing.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815004#Comment_120815004

Christ! Wherever it was you grew up sounds pretty depressing!!

Back in the day I clearly remember being able to cycle through low car traffic Dublin city streets without high vis/helmet and daytime running lights...Now you need to dress like a builder going to a rave just in the hope that some idiot behind the wheel of the cars flooding the city's streets doesn't hit you and send you flying into the back of an ambulance!

When there was a bus strike we walked 5 miles without complaint, try that now to the cosseted kids used to being ferried around town in their parents SUV's..

All the jobs were local, housing was affordable in the city... Now people have to live outside the city and travel back in.. just a shame there's no cycle lane network and the city speed limits aren't 30kph around the small city streets to keep people safe..

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809901#Comment_120809901

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810444#Comment_120810444

Always fascinating to see how you absolutely refuse to apply any of the logic that you use to claim that motorists are safe when it comes to cyclists.

What's your deaths per billion km figures for cyclists, considering the 'one death per decade' experience here? Why should we 'punish blameless cyclists' for the unfeasible large number of dangerous cyclists that you see around you?

SeanW

I don't "claim" that Irish motorists are safe. The facts speak for themselves.

As to the rest of your post: In addition to being a motorist, I'm also a regular pedestrian. In that capacity, I get far more respect from drivers than I do from cyclists. Dramatically so - it isn't even close.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815441#Comment_120815441

Facts like: one pedestrian death per decade caused by a cyclist?

SeanW

All my near misses as a pedestrian have been caused by cyclists.

Weren't you the one accusing Irish motorists of "killing 2 or 3 people every week?" you never did clarify how many of Ireland's 2.8 million drivers you were falsely accusing.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815492#Comment_120815492

Right, so when it comes to cyclists, we rely on personal anecdotes, but when it comes to drivers, we look at the data points that suit us.

Got it.

SeanW

That and those of a lot of other pedestrians. I'm not the only one who has noticed cyclists propensity for aggressive lawbreaking.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815570#Comment_120815570

You do seem to be the only one that hasn't noticed the decades of factual evidence of aggressive lawbreaking drivers killing two or three people each week on Irish roads.

SeanW

Like I said, which drivers specifically? There are a lot of them in Ireland, and you could be accused of tarring with a very large brush ...

magicbastarder

All my near misses as a pedestrian have been caused by cyclists.

all?

you should play the lotto tonight.

i know the lotto doesn't have a draw tonight, but with the odds you clearly live with, you'll still win anyway.

McGrath5

The amount of people on the internet who’ve had dangerous encounters with cyclists is baffling.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816172#Comment_120816172

Usually the same person has lots of them. coincidence?

What the latest status of these 30kph limits anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120816351#Comment_120816351

Galway is introducing a city centre 30k zone shortly.

Athlone is proposing one too, but it's early days yet

DCC are pushing the govt to make 30k the default for built up areas with exceptions applied for rather than the other way around

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815570#Comment_120815570

Wow! Definetly one of Dublin's most unlucky persons to see all these marauding bicyclists being so aggressive with the law, are you walking in the Cycle lanes waving your hands about?

Do you go onto the Motorbike forum to complain about the gangs of feral youths speeding around housing estates across the country on untaxed stolen motorcycles with no driving licence or insurance..

Honestly it's tiring reading your posts over the last number of years, the same gripes and moans, if it was against a minority group you'd of been banned off Boards.ie long ago.

Flinty997

I think there's a case to be made to limiting certain topics to specific threads. Instead of obsessively posting on so many threads with the same thing.

If anyone driven in London lately you can see what's going to happen here in the future in terms of low speed zones and ulez.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759465#Comment_118759465

Most toddlers don’t look left and right when they’ve escaped their harness or buggy.

magicbastarder

it's interesting to see so much variation in what is reported as the average reaction time in calculating braking distances. anything from half a second to two and a half seconds. though some seem to split it into two - the time taken to reach a decision to brake, and the time then to actually have applied your foot fully to the brake pedal.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812985#Comment_120812985

Parked cars shouldn't be there but they're not a threat to pedestrians when they're not moving...

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812996#Comment_120812996

So you're fine with pedestrians being put in fear. Oh Christ, another one.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817205#Comment_120817205

random anecdote. i once flagged down a garda car after the garda had driven past a van completely blocking the footpath, forcing pedestrians out into the bus lane (on a busy road). his initial reaction was to look at me like i had two heads. it was only when i pointed out that this was approx 100m from a centre for kids with disabilities, some of whom are in wheelchairs, did he resign himself to heading back to get the driver to move.

in short, parked cars are very often 'a threat' to those most vulnerable. i used to live in phibsboro, which had/has a fairly high proportion of elderly residents and on several occasions saw a neighbour having to walk her zimmer frame out on the road because she couldn't get past parked cars on the path.

Hotblack Desiato

Just to clarify, cycling on footpaths is illegal. The only exception is if you are entering or exiting a property. They are not de-facto cycle lanes so give that a rest.

SDCC for one has signage which explicitly states that the full width of certain footpaths are "shared".

magicbastarder

then it's a shared use path, rather than a 'footpath'.

Hotblack Desiato

Yippee.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815583#Comment_120815583

Do you want their names or what?

Can you be specific about which cyclists are marauding you on the footpaths?

bazzerboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759029#Comment_118759029

case by case...can't just blanket impose a limit.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819477#Comment_120819477

As to the cyclists that menace me on footpaths, I didn't get their names (though I think one of them is a regular poster here), but when the RSA last published statistics, there were 2.8 million people in Ireland with some kind of license/permit. Of that, 2.5 million were Full Category B license holders with the balance being other license types (A, A1, M, W) etc or learners permits. There are also some people driving in Ireland with licenses from other jurisdictions, e.g. the UK, the EU etc.

So how exactly do you define the "drivers" are you accusing of "killing 2 or 3 people every week?" All 2.8 million Irish license holders? Those plus the foreign license holders? Just the 2.5 million Irish Full Cat B license holders? How do all 2.5+ million of us decide who we are going to kill this week? Do we all meet in a giant meeting hall and vote on it every Sunday?

Perhaps you are blaming the infinitesimally small group of drivers that are actually culpable in fatal incidents (maybe 0.2-0.3% of the total). Or perhaps you are blaming all those who are involved in such incidents, regardless of cause. It's really unclear.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817002#Comment_120817002

Last I checked, the name of this forum was "Commuting and Transport" not cycling (Which is thataway BTW). On this board I see a lot of gaslighting of pedestrians and unfair accusations against motorists. People are going to disagree with that.