Let's all start growing Grain!?

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747731#Comment_118747731

Not that much Irish whiskey is actually made from corn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747802#Comment_118747802

Are you talking about blends of whiskey, or grain coming in?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747934#Comment_118747934

Waterford trace each bottle back to a certain farmer/farm land.

There's a few more that do it now as well, from their own land. https://ballykeefedistillery.ie/ and https://www.tipperarydistillery.ie/

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750132#Comment_118750132

Most of those investments are a bit of a scam though.

patsy_mccabe

Tillage.jpg

farmerphil135

To add my 2 cents to the mix

i think it should be compulsory, as a scheme to pay x amount for a crop will only push up rental prices and not get the acres needed.

but needs to be clear exemptions for those farming marginal ground or in deregation, can’t expect a hill farmer to plough the side of a hill or a highly stocked farmer to destock enough to make room for grain in a short space of time

I think it should be worked a bit like share cropping, farmer provides the land, state provides the inputs, contractor/tillage farmer provides the equipment and knowledge to grow the crops. And at harvest everyone gets a share in the returns but I think the contractor/ tillage farmer needs to be paid by the state as work is done to ensure they can pay for extra staff as the year goes on.

also I think there should be start up grants available for those willing to commit to change certain % of their land to crops to afford equipment

land already in tillage should be exempt from any schemes but the state should reduce any vat or import duties on sprays etc. to help keep costs down.

but at the end of the day apart from all the issues between fuel, fertiliser and seed, realistically they have till the end of March to come up with a plan to allow some kind of certainty to plant in April and it’s probably a safe bet to assume whatever they decide to do will be inadequate and too late to be any good😂

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118754586#Comment_118754586

Have ye worked the input costs this year Phil minus machinery costs? Are ye tempted to cut back on beef numbers for finishing next winter if you can get 300 plus for barley/wheat of the combine

Western Pomise

Glad to see my thread has generated some reasoned discussion from a diverse group of farmers as I hoped it would!

Actually missed seeing the news last night but heard secondhand from a neighbour this morning who had watched it that there was no major outcome from either the farming organisations side or the Ministers....but that a committee was being set up to monitor the situation as it unfolds as regards fuel costs and availability of seed and fodder.

Hopefully the Farming Stakeholders put adequate pressure on Govt side to make sure that setting up this committee won't turn into a 'lets just kick the can down the road and bury our heads in the sand' type scenario.

Danzy

Let's just try to maintain beef, milk, lamb, potatoes, veg etc at levels even remotely like the yield of last year.

Rather than the steep drop that's probably on the cards.

alps

Massive opportunity now for all those wannabe experts (both from the academia and green worlds) if the government allowed a scheme where these people could rent ground for the year and let them show us how to grow a crop.. Im sure contractors and farmers alike would make themselves and their equipment available for the machinery work at a reasonable rate.

No point in us doing it, as we've always been doing it the wrong way...Would really like to see it done properly...opportunity now..

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759929#Comment_118759929

If I could thank this post twice...

Anyone have any line to media or the top feedlot, sorry I mean "farming" organisations who have the minister's ear..

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747695#Comment_118747695

You’re right..i could spare 10 acres of decent ground…doing the sums on a fag packet…if i got 3 tonne to the acre, cost for the 30 tonne, doing my own spraying, ploughing harrowing and rolling would be approx 4500 ish. Then pay to possibly dry and roll it.. transport..harvesting.. total outlay maybe 6500? ..30 tonne of beef nut will be 12000 in a week…i know I’ll have to add soya bean meal …and there’s the value of the straw…approx e2000..it seems like a runner..be interesting to hear opinions,

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118769995#Comment_118769995

The value for money side won't come into it if you can't buy enough ration, Those with good land will only have them selves to blame if they're short of ration

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770031#Comment_118770031

I’d be thinking along the same lines. It’s all well and good thinking you can hold onto more cows or cattle or whatever for the summer if you keep that 10 or 20 acres in grass but what do you do then next winter if ration can’t be got? And even if it can be for what price will it be? At least if you have a bit of barley in the ground you’ve the option of keeping it to feed yourself. It may be extra work and shed space required for it but it could be better than having none at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770031#Comment_118770031

Said the same in the merchants today about money vs supply, was it 2013 or winter 17/18 that the ration started coming in thin green bags because fodder couldn't be got.

farmerphil135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755488#Comment_118755488

It’s impossible to put a cost on inputs at the minute as there constantly changing. For example at the start of the year we worked out it would be cheaper to haul slurry 19km to 28 acres of winter barley to spread with the pipes so taking 4 men and hiring a lorry and tanker to draw as well and adding an extra 1000 onto the cost as we could be somewhere else working, was cheaper than putting out artificial fertiliser.

we didn’t get it done as we were waiting on getting the use of a nurse tanker and in the meantime diesel went through the roof so it’s now cheaper to put out artificial fertiliser😂

unfortunately we won’t know the costs till the money is spent.

and no we won’t be scaling back the beef to increase the tillage as it left us in a very deep hole before

Homer jay

I have never grown an grain but with the last few years I was thinking of sowing 3 or 4 acres of oats each year for my own feed, also have a rotation for reseeeding each year, any of the older neighbours reckoned is was not worth doing, hassle of sowing it and getting it harvested but I still think it would be better even in a normal year to reduce stock numbers and grow enough or at least some of the grain needed as being fully stocked is a mugs game at present. Was wondering if someone on here would be able to advise me on how to grow oats, month to grow, fert to use, rate of seed to use, sprays needed during the year and what sort of time frame from sowing to harvest ?

Grueller

I have glas traditional meadow here that would grow 3.5 tonnes of barley easily in any sort of a growing year. Will they allow this to be planted I wonder I the announcement to come?

farmerphil135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786232#Comment_118786232

Oats is a good choice as it would be the easiest crop to grow and does well even in marginal land.

standard would be plough till sow and roll. You can start sowing from mid March till beginning of may all that changes is your seeding rate so March early April 11-12 stone/acre to 14 stone/acre late April early may. Early you sow the early you harvest. Oats is usually harvested September to early October. When you sow it is all down to your ground and the current ground conditions.

when sowing put out a compound fertiliser like 10-10-20 or 18-6-12 depending on your soil index. And top dress with nitrogen when The crop is at the flag leaf stage. The old saying is you get out what you put in so if you don’t put it in you won’t have much of a crop

1st weed spray is very important and you can either use pre emergence or post emergence. Pre emergence is weather dependent and post emergence you need to know what weeds you have to use the right sprays. Once you’ve the weeds under control you’ll need to use growth regulator to shorten the crop as oats grows quite tall and is prone to lodging and fungicides around the flag leaf stage to prevent diseases getting into the crop

at harvest then when you harvest depends on whether your after wholecrop, crimp or dry grain. Each has its own stage right time to harvest.

this is only a rough outline of what goes into the crop and there’s a lot more to it when you get into the nitty gritty of it weather, ground type, weeds and diseases and pests.

the worst thing you can do is sow it and forget about it till harvest. Seen it too many times and your as well leave it in grass as to grow a **** crop

best thing you can do is get in touch with an agronomist or someone in your locality at crops to help out

newholland mad

3.5 t /acre? . I wouldn't start out banking on that sort of yield if I were you, especially any field that has a history of being mowed, the k is bound to be lower than optimum added to the fact that the decaying sod locks up whatever is there. In the absence of slurry you'd need 100 units of k which if bought today will cost upwards of 100/acre before any n or p.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794760#Comment_118794760

What about ploughing down 3000 gals slurry per acre? That should supply about 90 units of K, and if you have the ploughing done as the slurry is spread there shouldn't be much N lost either.

Crimping is a good option for farms with nowhere to store grain. If mice get into it they die. Also with urea being added at crimping it brings up the CP by about 4% May not suit dairy cows, but should be ok for beef cattle.

locha

Was speaking to the auld boy about this he used to do a fair bit told tillage in his day. He stopped the conversation short when I mentioned putting in 20 acres. “ who is going to pick the ffing stones?” Fair point that I had been overlooking. Probably one of the most soul destroying jobs on a farm.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805347#Comment_118805347

No potato harvesters about I suppose?

That'd make short work of 20 acres.

farmerphil135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805347#Comment_118805347

Stones aren’t the end of the world unless your ploughing up boulders😂 tractor and loader when your rolling the crop after sowing and you can pick up anything the roller can’t put down and if you can get the use of a stone fork you’ll hardly have to get out of the tractor. Once your not using a power Harrow most stones are harmless

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805059#Comment_118805059

What sort of money does it cost to crimp a tonne of barley? Is it ok to feed on its own to finishing cattle with silage if protein is up round 11 or 12% ?

leoch

Good question cavanjack or can u mix it with maize meal

Seen fields of turnips sown an then the animals grazing on them i winter. May not be grain but makes more sense for our climate unless growing oats

tabby aspreme

Turnip's are usually sown the end of May, it would give you the option of a cut of silage first, you would need 3/400 kgs of fertilizer/ acre, seed and a pre emergent weed spray

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809241#Comment_118809241

No doubt it could be mixed with maize meal but will it be available next winter or at what cost.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809214#Comment_118809214

It's a good few years since I did some, I think it was about €40 a ton back then, I think the higher the moisture is the more expensive it will be.

I fed it to finishing bulls, used it instead of bull ration at the early stage of feeding, then introduced the bull ration about half way through and finished them on 100% bull ration for the last month.

Buy the equipment and become a contractor?

Dinzee Conlee

Farmers to get €400/ha to plant extra tillage in proposed €12m scheme

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/tillage/farmers-to-get-400ha-to-plant-extra-tillage-in-proposed-12m-scheme-41472194.html

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817299#Comment_118817299

Would €400/ha cover the cost, even on a tillage farm

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817459#Comment_118817459

I wouldn’t have said it would do much - like, 160/acre, with fertiliser running at 50/bag.

So it’s about 3 bags/acre…

Then - on the other hand, I am getting 900/ha for growing wild bird cover. Now, there is no grain/straw output from the WBC, but still…

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817785#Comment_118817785

The expression "that's for the birds" comes to mind

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817299#Comment_118817299

I’ll be watching this with interest as I’ll be sowing barley again, (hopefully next weekend) for the first time in 6 years. But they’d want to be getting a move on or it’ll be of no incentive to lads that aren’t already in tillage.

For barley, sowing should ideally be completed by end of March and with a 10 day window needed from roundup to ploughing then announcing a scheme this week is cutting it tight.

It is still plenty of time for oats and in particular maize and beet. With the expected prices of ration/nuts next winter these crops should be being strongly considered by anyone using a lot of ration.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817299#Comment_118817299

This is only targeted at land that wasn't in tillage in 2021. So someone growing tillage crops will get a €400 payment to help offset the costs. But the guys that are already tillage enterprises get nothing? Is my take on it right? Are the existing guys screwed here in that their input costs are sky high too but they have no supports?

In my simple view, I'd suspect a net decrease in tillage area even with this incentive for new land to enter production

amacca

I'd imagine you are right

Stick to beat lads with when they complain about no ration in autumn....

I'll be reducing the mouths I have to feed anyway.....

RimondL

Using satellite imagery in the earliest stages of wheat growth, I was able to save more than 50% of my crops. This computable index. eos.com/industries/agriculture/msavi/ can be used for remote sensing to detect uneven seed growth. It can be compared to weather data on a graph showing the correlation between extreme weather and crop health.

kincaid

I see theyre giving money now too to grow lupins, red clover etc, whats that all about?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821034#Comment_118821034

High protein crops, let your ration be in the pit.

Birdnuts

Don't see the problem supporting more tillage on livestock holdings to shore up potential animal feed issues. Have been experimenting with wholecrop oats on my place in North Mayo in recent years and pleased enough with it in terms of cutting feed and supplement bill.

Jimbo789

Last year I had one field of barley which I was planning on sowing multi species grass in this year. I have another field the same size in permanent pasture that I was planning on sowing barley this year. So I would end up with no additional tillage this year but just the same amount as last year growing in a different field.

Am I correct in saying that I would get nothing from the tillage scheme and only something from the multi species scheme?

If this is the case I'm considering not sowing any tillage this year due to the costs.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821244#Comment_118821244

I think it might depend on your parcels for SFP/BPS

If you have all one parcel, and last year had 1ha of barley, and this year planned to have 1ha of barley, albeit in a different ha - then you wouldn’t get paid.

But if it were a different parcel this year, you would get paid…

Thats my read of it - I could be wrong…

Jimbo789

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821260#Comment_118821260

Are land parcels not always divided for BPS based on the parcel use? So by switching from permanent pasture to tillage will always mean the tillage will be in a different parcel?

I was wondering if they were going to add up the total across all BPS and only pay on the additional tillage this year compared to last year.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821302#Comment_118821302

Are they? I didn’t think they were, but maybe…

Someone more learned than me will have to guide you Jimbo…

TheClubMan

Today's tillage scheme announcement has caught my interest. Drystock farm here. Reducing numbers this year. I was going to reseed 7 hectares of silage ground this spring. Good soil type with plenty of tillage around but my index figures and PH might be a bit low. Got lime last November and heavy covering of slurry a few days ago. Awaiting soil sample results. Anyway, I'm now contemplating planting Oats in this ground this year instead and reseeding it next year. How far would €400/ha go to covering the costs? Contractor would be doing most of the work i.e ploughing, sowing, fertiliser, spraying, harvesting. I can roll it myself and have access to a disc harrow and power harrow and can haul some of the grain too. 15km to local grain merchant. No experience in tillage. Worth the risk or should I forget about it?

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821420#Comment_118821420

I was going to ask a similar question..would anybody care to take a stab at breaking down the costs of sowing a cereal crop per hectare..not a clue here of seed costs, spray requirements or even fertiliser to use. The other issue I'd have is storing it on farm, although several tillage farmers and grain merchants in my area that store grain.

farmerphil135

Just doing up costs based on what I can find online. FCI contracting charges for plough till sow are €100 per acre but that’s pre fuel increases so probably add 20 - 30 per acre to that change to per hectare and its 295ish per ha

Can find nothing on seed prices except teagasc figures for 21 spring barley seed €94/ha

Already at that the 400 is nearly gone and you’ve only got the crop in the ground with no fertiliser on it and yet to be sprayed.

so it’s only going to go so far plus if it’s not going to be paid out till bps time your stuck carrying them costs till then

we won’t be growing any extra tillage to try get the 400. Not worth the hassle of it

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821558#Comment_118821558

The round up will cost70 euro/ hec on its own thie year

epfff

Can I put in crop and whole crop as opposed to combine?

Is there minimum planting date?

weatherbyfoxer

growing grain and near 100% of work relying on contractors isnt a runner imho,we have done it in the past and barring a long spell of dry weather over the harvest and spring its very difficult get all your ducks in a row

will be sowing red clover here into some silage ground where the grass is gone thin and some standard 1 cut and graze mix into another plot,main focus will be growing grass here and reducing the amount of meal being fed cattle and sheep