Ireland's national debt 'one of the highest in the world' on a per capita basis

Pussyhands

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0222/1282354-national-debt-report/

Ireland's national debt 'one of the highest in the world' on a per capita basis

The national debt stood at €237 billion at the end of last year.

This equates to €47,233 for every person in the country, which is described in the report as "one of the highest in the world."

_____________________________

It's a good thing FFG found that money tree in the last year or so. 🤑

Not good.

If our FDI strategy starts to fall apart we will be in an awful position.

bigroad

Ffg won't care as they probably won't be in government next time.

Mr. teddywinkles

If the ecb raise interest rates on borrowing due to inflation. Will this slow these egits in government spending willy nilly.

combat14

.. major war about to start in ukraine, and people paying nose bleed celtic tiger prices for houses here again what could possibly go wrong..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674441#Comment_118674441

None of them care.. they're never going to take any responsibility for what happens. Past or present.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234284/irelands-national-debt-one-of-the-highest-in-the-world-on-a-per-capita-basis

Paddy is not interested in this sort of stuff, now are we on for double digit house price rises again for 2022?! We are? Sorted!

Gant21

We need to keep borrowing and keep building. Fire up the mixer and order some 804.

Jinglejangle69

This green agenda nonsense needs to stop.

No more bleeding tax payers to realise Eamon Ryan’s vanity project.

Billions to be spent on something we will barely make a difference to while other countries prosper without this climate nonsense.

We need to allow gas excavation as it will help us in the future to not rely on other countries for energy especially with a war impeding.

Enough is enough.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674435#Comment_118674435

People have been saying that for the last forty years.

French Toast

Who do we owe that money to?

If we just stop talking about it they might forget. Best plan I've heard so far...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675021#Comment_118675021

Yes, but it hasn't fallen apart. If it does we are in trouble. Huge number of high paying jobs, income tax and corporation tax receipts.

It may or may not fall apart, depends on the geopolitical developments over the next decade or so.

I'm not hopeful but luckily my opinion on this doesn't matter 🙂

MAULBROOK

Weimar Republic 1923 hold my beer, says Ireland 2022

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675012#Comment_118675012

I think the Greens are probably responsible for about 0.001% of that debt in fairness.

We have accumulated all that debt over the lifetime of the state when it was either FF or FG at the helm.

I suggest offering northern ireland as full and final settlement to all the states debt.

On a serious note i see the government raiding private savings and pension funds, to keep funding nonsense and the workshy

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675036#Comment_118675036

Tommy Tiernan had the right idea. Find the lad and kill the bastard.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675098#Comment_118675098

I seem to recall the greens in power during the Celtic tiger madness.

Don't worry, socialism is always there to bail out capitalism.

Cyclingtourist

If it's 'per capita' then the more our population increases the lower it will become.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675062#Comment_118675062

I’m a Grand Canal Basin half full person myself.

Be grand.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675012#Comment_118675012

People will start turning against that stuff in bad times. Particularly when you see what's going on with Russia and how we stopping ourselves exploiting our own resources and leaving us vulnerable.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234284/irelands-national-debt-one-of-the-highest-in-the-world-on-a-per-capita-basis

I'd say it's worse than that. Not everyone is going to be tapped to help pay it off. The debt per income tax payer is €150,000 per head.

Mad_maxx

Yet majority supported the past two years restrictions?

Quitelife

As long as there’s enough there to pay all the public sector defined benefit pensions the rest of us can only dream of no one in government cares !!

cj maxx

I thought this why Brian Cowan relaxed borrowing in the nougties. As a rule most people were under borrowed compared to our European neighbours. FF caused an almighty F-up with the economy. Relax basic rules of economics and flood the country with cheap money. Once you put that see-saw in motion you're fighting a long war to get back in balance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675149#Comment_118675149

So you're going to reduce the government debt by increasing spending and reduce the cost of living burden by increasing taxes.

Can you show us your calculations?

To come up with a big statement like that, your sums must add up. Let's see them.

GeneralMudkip

How on Earth did we amass €237 billion in debt? With no plan in sight to resolve the issue

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674483#Comment_118674483

That's not an If. The ECB will be raising interest rates soon.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118676114#Comment_118676114

It's not a problem for now as the debt will be fixed rate. Problem will be when we reach maturity date, when we pay back the principal. Debt doesn't get paid off anymore, it's just rolled over with a new loan. All dandy when rates get lower each time.

We're done for if we lose some FDI money and rates go up a few % by the time we have to roll over that debt.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675496#Comment_118675496

To be fair in 2010 the state borrowed €64 billion from the EU and the IMF to recapitalise private Irish banks. We took lots of private company debt into our sovereign debt.

'Not another red cent' was another one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118676060#Comment_118676060

Can you point out where I said I would do what you said?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118676111#Comment_118676111

Because this is a socialist country that spends far too much on two types of social welfare. The first don't work, so we give them houses and thir kids iphones and xbox's that those who do work could only dream of, and the second type which are the public sector workers, who are some of the most highly paid of their type in the world. So much so that when Ireland was looking for bailouts because of the banking crisis, the lenders asked why do you pay them so much?

"But if the UK public sector is full of "fat cats", the Irish public sector is full of "morbidly obese cats".

Tomorrow the Irish public face the most austere budget in the nation's history and public sector pay and pensions is at last on the agenda. But it is highly unlikely there will be any cuts that see top earners taking home less than the prime minister.

So back to Fingleton's pay of £255,000. It's not like for like, but the following will give you a flavour of the runaway public sector pay in Ireland.

Runaway pay won't be really tackled in Ireland

The highest paid public sector boss in Ireland takes home a staggering €752,568 (£637,000) – that is Electricity Supply Board chief, Padraig McManus. The average salary at the ESB is €70,000 - making them the highest paid electricity workers in the world.

The second highest paid public sector boss is Declan Collier, the head of the Dublin Airport Authority who is on a package worth €568,100 while the head of An Post is on €500,000 and the head of the forestry commission, Coillte is on a tidy €417,000.

In fact, so much financial cholesterol is coursing through the veins of the Irish public and semi-state sector, a report earlier this summer found that 66 public servants in Ireland receive more than €500,000 each including 37 judges, the head of the controversial National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, and the head of the National Treasury Management Agency, which looks after the country's public finances."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2010/dec/06/ireland-public-sector-fat-cats

"BAILOUT officials will find some public servants earn over 40pc more than eurozone colleagues as they assess whether new pay cuts are justified.

Senior sources have revealed that IMF and EU officials are carrying out a benchmarking exercise using data from international bodies, including the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warning-over-imf-exercise-to-benchmark-pay-with-eu-26723325.html

"As part of this process, high-level European and IMF bureaucrats have compiled a list of top-level public sector pay and are believed to be deeply unimpressed by the huge disparities between the packages secured by European public sector mandarins and their Irish counterparts.

A series of recent surveys by government bodies such as Forfas has revealed that Ireland's doctors, nurses, police and teachers are among the highest-paid public servants in the world.

Top Irish professionals such as university lecturers, judges and hospital consultants earn twice as much as their European counterparts and Ireland also has the highest-paid electricity workers in the world.

Top European bankers such as Jean-Claude Trichet have pointed out these disparities to Irish ministers complaining about the high interest rate on the IMF/EU/ECB bailout.

The figures, which have been compiled by the EU and the IMF, also reveal that over recent years, the rate of increases in Irish public sector wages has been 100 per cent higher than that experienced by other EU countries." https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-imf-slams-outrageous-public-pay-rates-26717222.html

And of course what does the Irish government do when there is €150,000 debt per income tax payer? Why it awards the public sector pay rises. You couldn't make it up.

charlie_says

Thinking of setting up an NGO that doesn't really do much but talks about the national debt and how if we were to borrow more we could reduce it, think I could get a heap of funding from the government.

Anyone want to be on the board?

Atlantic Dawn

There's government ads on the radio telling you that eating too much makes you fat, that a car should be serviced, etc etc etc, common sense but costing tens of millions a year, we simply can't afford these pet projects to blow our money with. You get whingers wanting schools to be ripped apart to instal about 5 different designations of toilet based on what people want to relate to depending on what is in fashion this month, again would cost tens of millions.

Then you get children with Scoliosis awaiting tiny sums of money to fund operations that will ensure they are not a burden on the tax payer for life and funding isn't there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118676173#Comment_118676173

Oh ok, so you would propose to increase spending even further while squeezing every penny from people already burdened with the cost of living. Not to mention causing the FDI that contributes so much to our country in taxes to leave.

Thanks for confirming what a disease socialism is, which needs to be crushed. Perpetuated by people who believe in fairy tales and magic money trees.

Grow up.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118676111#Comment_118676111

Just double the 'capita' and half the 'per capita' debt.

Mr. teddywinkles

Well when ya see 100million being thrown out at this shite and another 500 million thrown at another load of shite. Is it any surprise.

Instead of paying off this debt in the good times. No just lash it around like its confetti. Wait till the hard times come a knocking.

Convinced these shisters in government couldn't give two fooks about climate change.

Just extra tax to pay the interest on the never end of borrowing and wasteful spending.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677026#Comment_118677026

How is that achieved?

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677203#Comment_118677203

"How is that achieved?"

Sex and inward migration.

timmyntc

they will allow inflation to erode their debts, and sure who cares if actual people suffer? Its the economy stupid

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234284/irelands-national-debt-one-of-the-highest-in-the-world-on-a-per-capita-basis

...bring it on, debt is the money supply, no debt = no money supply! we need to embrace public debt, as we have become over reliant on the private sector money supply, the credit supply, which is primarily used for speculation in asset markets, driving their prices even higher, property being a perfect example. but increasing the public money supply going forward must be used for productive means, and not used to further increase asset prices such as property.....

....oh and we need to largely ignore the neoclassicals that always panic over the public money supply, siting the end of the world with its use and increases, as theyll just keep leading us into credit fueled asset booms and busts!

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677335#Comment_118677335

This nonsense again.

I suppose the greeks were geniuses to embrace public debt too, look where that got them?

Italy too, a big proponent of public debt - they are barely solvent, and if interest rates rise they may well default on most of their debts too.

techman1

Rather than now reigning in the budget deficits now that covid is over and inflation is rising, the government has extended out substantial budget deficits of 5 billion euros a year out to 2026.

All those promises to the green party of cutting carbon and retrofitting are massively expensive and unaffordable. Putin's adventurism in the Ukraine could derail most of that anyway if interest rates and energy prices are forced ever higher.

plodder

I wonder who's going to be in power when it hits a quarter trillion? Nice round figure and an interesting milestone/millstone around our necks. Though I thought these international comparisons were supposed to be done now against tax revenue rather than population, which is a better measure of our ability to pay it back, or keep it rolling over at least. Does such a comparison exist?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677438#Comment_118677438

...you do realise, a significant proportion of greek, and even irish debt is whats called 'odious', it was in fact effectively forced upon us, in order to protect plutocratic interests, primarily within the financial sectors! greece is stuck in a perpetual 'extend and pretend' situation, in which it has no means to truly pay back these debts, during 2015, it was in fact realised creditors didnt actually want their money back, that the situation was orchestrated so that other states, primarily the piigs, would not stand up in conjunction with the greeks, and force the creditors to rethink, it worked! yes, greece is indeed in a far worse situation now, extremely high unemployment amongst its youth, extremely high and unpayable debts, with no true means to pay them back, ever, and declining gdp!

italy, italy has never been able to cope with the implementation of the euro, the fact that a monetary system was implemented without any true surplus recycling mechanism in place, a central banking system that doesnt represent the interests of its citizens, and has more or less aligned itself with the same plutocratic interests mentioned above. italy has a traditional manufacturing economy, since the implementation of the euro, it has been unable to compete against the mite of other euro countries, primarily germany, in which the euro is truly just a rebranded Deutsche Mark, and since it gave up the powers of its central bank upon entering the euro, it has had no tools in order to counteract this, i.e. devaluing etc. all of this in turn has forced italy to take on even more public debt, in order to survive.....

once again, this is what happens when you become over reliant on the private sector money supply......

Australian Private Debt.jpg

Credit and Debt USA.png

Ireland Debt.jpg

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677335#Comment_118677335

Did u read this stuff in a book or what?!

We were the third most indebted country in the developed world per head pre covid. We spent the most per head on COVID in Europe so may have hit second place I dunno. Big changes coming next year to the golden goose corporation tax and yet the answer is always to spend more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677288#Comment_118677288

Inward migration of people who are skilled/educated enough to pay for themselves are a plus, contributing to the success of the economy. Unskilled immigration or those without decent education, are not. They might pay their daily costs, but they remain a burden due to their demands on State services. It takes a decent wage to supply enough in tax, and consumer spending to make up the difference. Unskilled labour is also far less secure, and far more likely to end up on welfare at different periods, due to the instable manner of that kind of employment.. and so increasing the cost to the State over time.

Sex, and having children by itself won't solve much, without the means to educate and ensure that they become productive members of society. In addition to remaining in the country, and not emigrating.

A larger population brings about more costs. Yes, it brings about the potential for increased revenue/productivity, but children don't spring into being, able to pay for themselves. There's an investment involved, both by parents and by the State. A long term investment in many cases.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677609#Comment_118677609

...this info comes from many respected sources, some of which realised the 08 crash was in the post prior, primarily for the reasons explained, mainly the over reliance on private debt/credit....... the only way to counteract this, is to embrace pubic debt, but to make sure it is used for 'productive means', and not for further speculation, and for inflating asset prices such as property!

Cyclingtourist

We need more people to reduce the 'per capita debt'. How about importing some Ukrainians? It would certainly be better than paying them thousands to produce Patricks and Patricias.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677630#Comment_118677630

again, debt is the money supply, all money begins its life as debt, this debt is on balance sheets, in both the public and private domains, and since a lot of public works is carried out by the private sector, it has been used to create work and jobs in both the public and private sectors....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677026#Comment_118677026

Like Burkina Faso.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677630#Comment_118677630

Debt per tax payer is an even more eye opening statistic.

Importing more net drains on the states finances is not a smart move