Great Ireland Run

Sandwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483970#Comment_120483970

As predicted. Not a mention of AAI in the email just sent out. DCH front and centre.

Trampas

Unforeseen circumstances. How about it was a fk up. Plain and simple.

1800 finishers @ €25 a pop. Say €20 so about €36k and couldn’t organise a couple of people to stand at a corner

Birdie Num Num

Not discounting what you saw Burkie but at what stage was that at? I’d imagine the scene as the lead past and someone further down the field would be very different. I’d expect people to go to the side of the course as the race past.

The way these events work in the pp is that authorities and the organisers get together, meet and discuss all including obviously the course. That would have been the Gardai, the OPW and most likely in this instance the hosting club. All would have known the course and all had various responsibilities to do on the day. It would be my guess that communication failed somewhere and someone didn’t know and do their job as they should have.

As I said earlier I think the course always looked like it was going to pose an issue but I didn’t expect it would go the wrong direction.

Classic21

Is it time to take the national championships out of Dublin?

let the Great Ireland Run (or whatever event the championships hangs onto) go ahead as a standalone event and have a dedicated national championships on it’s own.

demfad

It's not uncommon in hill running that stray runners end up running the reverse direction. They go astray and then follow the markers the wrong way at a junction around a loop. With groups often meeting each other, stopping having a discussion about the weather, route etc.

Now, 1800 people doing that would be a different story. If the first few dozen go wrong, you have to let the whole lot go wrong. Otherwise you could have Charge of the Light Brigade scenes somewhere on the Glen Road.

Obviously, the turn that was missed was a key point of danger with a 90'+ turn. Get that right and the course then follows a pretty natural route. Get it wrong and well....

In my opinion marshalling is an accident waiting to happen in most races. In most races you see marshalls just standing there which means those marshalls don't understand their roles and those controlling them have not communicated the roles or maybe don't fully understand them themselves.

Marshalls are there to guide runners on the correct and clear route (obvious to follow and not blocked by spectators).

Too often they just stand there, not directing, less useful than a sign which at least often points somewhere.

Organisers think that by sending marshalls to a particular location the job is done, box ticked....they instinctively will know what to do and assertively do it.

At that key junction you need a good team who knows what they have to do and how to do it.

No a good team there. No team at all....perhaps there was no pre race briefing and the meeting time was wrong? Perhaps marshalls had to cover two postions, got it wrong? Perhaps only two marshalls for that spot and both unluckily inabstentia? Who knows....but we do know that marshall-itus claimed yet another victim ....caught a big fish this time.

splashthecash

I was up with my wife who was running it and I was at the start line waiting for them all to come through after turning right...saw them all running on straight in the distance. I went up to one of the officials and asked about it and she said "I just have to deal with something" and ran off into a huddle with other officials. Absolute panic stations at the finish line moving timing mats, and figuring out the best way to come up with a course after the mess up happened...100% shambles. My wife was on for a 1 min PB had it been a correctly distance 🫣

Burgman

I think demfad is correct. Stewarding is an underestimated task - and risk. I have done it many times at races in the Phoenix Park and have always known beforehand exactly what was to happen and what was required of us. Stewards who are runners will usually know what is required. It sounds logical that the fast guys should have the course in their head but there is always an expectation of a lead bike or car, adequate stewarding and signage etc.

This extract from the Celtic DCH website, posted on Friday 14th - less than two days before the race, does not fill me with confidence:

"Sun 16Apr all athletes who are born 2010 and older meet at the HITW at 8.30 to help at the race( on bikes if you have one). Edel and Shane will bring you over to where you are needed to help at the race. Any adults who havnt been assigned jobs come directly over to finish area on the furze road for 9am. All help appreciated from parents and older siblings."

Looking for thirteen year-olds to help? Parents who are not runners wouldn't have a clue.

Fundamentally though, it was a badly designed course that was asking for trouble, regardless of the detour. The last wave was to start six minutes after the first wave - but the first wave was due to be coming back down that road past the start at that time, having done just over 2km. It would also have been a mess if the runners had gone the right way.

Birdie Num Num

It’s a club with a young membership base but where are AI officials in a championship race at crucial zones?

Sandwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485923#Comment_120485923

Not defending AI at all but isn't that the system for pretty much any championship race, whether it's county, provincial or national? Isn't it always delegated out to a host club who get a few quid out of it? The AI involvement on the day would presumably be limited to collating results, handing out medals and the like?

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485080#Comment_120485080

DCH was responsible for organising the race, no?

Having two different parties responsible for organising a race would be a recipe for a disaster, unless it was being run jointly which wasn't the case here though.

Birdie Num Num

Yes generally it is but depends on the competition. T&F for example is not entirely reliable on a host club. Okay few stewards are required for a T&F event but a bit more oversight and a bit more involvement after handing out the permit for a road championship race wouldn’t go a miss.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485972#Comment_120485972

Exactly. Our club hosts a number of county, provincial and national events. 100% of the organisation and logistics are done by the host club. Like it or not, it’s the host’s responsibility to carry off the race. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, and it’s surprising this kind of thing doesn’t happen more often. The buck stops with the race director - it’s their job to foresee all the potential problems and make sure enough people are in place to neutralise those problems. Bodies all over the course who all know what to do. Complacency can and does set in. And sometimes people are just incompetent.

Hurrache

Issue was though were there any stewards at the turn? I was spectating further down the course but it doesn't seem like there was based on reports.

Edit, maybe not

https://twitter.com/PhilMuinteoir/status/1647708291512893443?t=IkMnEDenoFJ9_DiWol2WXQ&s=19

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485617#Comment_120485617

It's obvious that there is a competency problem in Dublin. I can't imagine that such an error (driven by hubris and pure dopeishness) could happen in any other county.

I wasn't there but friends of mine where and apparently to call it a "sh!t show" would be generous. Decentralise the National Championships, they shouldn't be in the country's most polluted city anyway.

sk8board

I was there yesterday. Knew were were wrong when the 3k marker board ‘disappeared’ and we were running the course in reverse. It’s actually an achievement that they managed to shepherd everyone back to the start.

I've been involved in road race organisation. the director can’t see everything - they have lead marshalls in charge of sections of the course, connected by radio.

With minutes to go, each section of the course gives a strict GO/NO-Go and the whole course is declared ‘open’. Only then is the starter told to go ahead.

from a Marshall perspective, the missed turn was the most important one on the whole course (the rest of the course was quiet - this area was where everyone gathered pre race - the portaloo’s were literally at the junction etc) - it was the only junction that needed to be cleared before gun time for a ‘go/no-go’.

Separately, with that short 3km initial loop, the timing of each wave just doesn’t add up.

there was always a huge risk the lead pack would have to go through the walkers from wave 3. The missed turn was at the 2.2km mark (6-7min into the race), but the gun time for the 3rd wave was +6min, if they could achieve that, and then all the walkers would have to make their way up to and through the start line and then another 500m to the first right hand turn (another 5-7min?) in order to clear the road for the leaders.

I can’t see how that was ever possible.

Duanington

I was there yesterday myself too, a disappointing day for all involved, runners, walkers and organisers. Like others, I knew something was up when we didn't take that turn back down towards the 3km marker, I actually assumed the OPW or the Gardai had insisted on a last minute route change or something.

While I most likely missed out on a (very) surprise PB, I can't imagine how those at the pointy end of things are feeling. I was chatting to someone who finished in the top 7 who had gone out with the intention of sticking to a group until the last 1km and would try to pick people off from there. Maybe it would have worked, maybe not, we'll never know.

Apparently City of Derry were the lead team and would have travelled down the night before etc and had targeted the national title specifically.

As for the organisers, they bowed to some pressure to change the course up from previous years it seems, its a notoriously tough route and probably less appealing as a result - the newer course did look faster but that initial 3k loop was a recipe for problems when you take the staggered starts into account.

Ultimately, its a run, nobody got hurt, everyone survived and there are lots of other options for people to run their PBs or whatever, as for the national medals thing, that's a tough one for those impacted to deal with. Hopefully the organisers take an honest look at the planning and prep but give themselves the space to remove the emotion from the conversation - there's a lot of it flying around at the moment. I don't think they could have salvaged much on the day, other than redirecting the field onto the right route as soon as the error was spotted - although, that could have resulted in some very surprise national medals getting handed out !

rovers_runner

The route change is a result of OPW restrictions on permits for races in the park, it's here to stay that only the main avenue and the south of the park will be availble, all orgnizers have to work within these limits since 2020.

Was surprised to see that the elites would have nearly met the rest of the runners starting on the elites second loop of the short section, would have been mayhem there.

Either way it's probably the last race in this current guise of the combination of National 10k and GIR, Nationals will probably go regional in rotation and GIR will pick up the pieces with a damaged brand, doubt they survive with the price tag and shitshow that was yesterday. Lot of other races across even the area local to the park which are better value and won't have issues such as the postage of numbers, collection of numbers, bag drop, marhsalling, call for volunteers at last minute for a national championship.

Birdie Num Num

Be kind indeed. You are aware that the National 10k has only relatively, recently aligned itself with this event since 2010? Up to then it was staged thoughout the country at different venues. I understand low participation numbers was a reason to change that but also other factors I’m sure. Never was one for this event personally nor AI aligning with it. Like they did with that night run thing. Maybe time to revert back to as it was and aligning with an established good club 10k. I can think of a few suitable races.

sk8board

my first thought at the finish line yesterday was ‘they can just re-run the 10k champs at dunshaughlin in 9weeks time’, but I’m told it’s not that simple and in particular that scheduling for elites and sub-elites is a factor - they have their race calendar in place early in the year

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485410#Comment_120485410

What are to referring to?

I was at the furze/Chesterfield junction approx 10min45 seconds (2.3km) after starting. I was in wave 1. There was about 20 spectators stood across that junction blocking the way onto Furze.

There should have been 4 barriers across the main road with a large arrow directing us to turn right. The two footpaths should have been barriered off and a few marshalls stationed there. I didn't see anyone who I would say was a Marshall in the vicinity. Yet at the bottom of the hill at St Mary's there was about 10

rovers_runner

A brilliantly written humorous take on it from someone at the coal face who was there to compete.

https://www.10thingsithinkabout.com/blog/2023/4/17/great-ireland-run-10k-2023

https://www.strava.com/activities/8899682964/laps

Looking at his Strava, you'd estimate the front runners would have railroaded into the back of the last wave leaving the start line, carnage ensuing. You'd nearly think someone was told not to move cones at the top of the Furze until the runners left the start area...... That does open another can of worms though about the planning.

PatrickRuns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490651#Comment_120490651

I was in the group just behind Donal's. When we approached the barred Chesterfield/Furze junction we had a quick chat to:

- confirm we all agreed this was the wrong way

- all agree to follow on, as 30-40 runners had already gone through

- try to figure out whether it meant the course was going to be short or long (that was my opinion, as i believed the RD would have us run the missing "triangular" bit at the end of the race which would make it about 11k).

So basically, we were racing an unknown distance at this stage.

After we climbed Upper Glen Road, it became clear to me that we were not going to do that extra triangle loop as we would merge with slower runners after the loop and it would require the RD to track which runners had done the extra loop and which had not.

And yes, it would have been a similar scenario had we used the correct route....

The triangular path is approximately 2.9km, which the top runners cover in around 9 minutes. With the delayed wave start, the last group left 5-6 minutes after the first, and with walkers allowed, it would take them another 7-8 minutes to get to the end of Furze road (about 800m). It was going to be very, very tight for the top runners to avoid clashing into the back of the pack. And we have to keep in mind these are fun runners, here to have a good day, who might not know if they should leave a bit of room to their left or right. They have absolutely every right to run side by side, dressed up, dancing, running/walking/stopping at any pace they wish etc ...

I had a look at the poster used for advertising the race. It had the start/finish way down Furze road to the West, like 100-200m before the turn to Ordnance Survey Road (as opposed to 800m from it). Had they actually positioned the start/finish there, it would have worked perfectly...

opus

The Great Ireland Run fiasco - What went wrong???

Sounds like it wasn't going to end well either way.

average_runner

Cork running had a very good article explaining what happened

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiXyuOClrj-AhXFQ0EAHYZsCzkQFnoECC0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcorkrunning.blogspot.com%2F2023%2F04%2Fthe-great-ireland-run-fiasco-what-went.html&usg=AOvVaw3Ke46QH6yughllwyw1KR4N

Murph_D

Corksplaining. 😉

Sandwell

So what do people make of the resolution? Medals awarded with an asterix beside the result and free entry to another championship race this summer. Seems okay to me. Did non-club participants receive a similar offer?

rovers_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502412#Comment_120502412

It seems they did not, their levy mustn't cover for unforeseen circumstances...

PatrickRuns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502412#Comment_120502412

I don't know if DCH reached out to the non club runners (not sure if AI has anything to do with them or if they even have a list of non club runners).

I think the resolution is reasonable. The asterisk is just like any non record eligible race (like Boston marathon for instance) - and who cares about time or distance anyway in a championship race.

The fastest runners on the day get the medals. That is fair

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502723#Comment_120502723

When I am running I typically go out faster and then hang in as best I can at the end. Others will do it the opposite way. It looks to me like awarding medals for a shorter distance will favour someone like me rather than the 20 people that will pass me in the last km.

Hard to see what else they could do though tbf

Duanington

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502412#Comment_120502412

I suppose its all they could do, it isn't fair and it isn't great but there are so few options left given the mess they made. I spoke with someone who went out with a very clear strategy of staying close to the medals in his category (but just behind) for the 8\9k before breaking for home over the last km, whether or not he'd have made it, we'll never know - it seems unfair on him but I don't think they could do much else