Hobby farming encouraged

n1st

“The diversion of funding away from commercial to either ‘hobby’ farming or people who just own land and don’t farm at all is now well under way. We can expect to see a sudden interest in acquiring land in these areas and that doesn’t seem to bother those with responsibility for oversight. ICMSA has warned repeatedly that we are moving away from supporting food production to, effectively, land stewardship,” he said.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/increase-in-part-time-farmers-is-to-be-welcomed-hackett-41351684.html

Ubbquittious

I supposse its better than giving grants to supermassive farmers who only gobble up smaller farms & invest in robots

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058233271/hobby-farming-encouraged

Nothing wrong with that. Supporting food production has done more harm than good over the past 50 years

blue5000

How big/small is a hobby farm these days? 🤨 Or how big would a drystock farm have to be to provide enough money for a family of 5 to live on? I heard of a teagasc beef advisor with 200 clients and only 5 of them don't have an off farm income in the house. I think icmsa have left it a bit late to cry wolf on this one tbh.

n1st

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118640622#Comment_118640622

No clue.

I'd presume someone with a full time job and a permanent wage which is the main/higher annual income but also has agricultural land.

I'm not even sure if livestock is a requirement.

JohnChadwick

Apparently farmers are producing 1.5 times the amount of food that's needed globally. No point in totally rinsing your resources just to keep a few shareholders happier.

Donald Trump

Imagine if it was applied to any other job

"Government welcomes fact that most teachers are forced to take on additional work in order to make ends meet. Green party TD part-time-teacher who teaches a few grinds as a hobby speaks effusively about nice it is to have a few extra bob coming in on top of her TD salary and expenses and wonders aloud why all teachers just doesn't do the same."

P Flynn must have gotten a job on their PR team

roosky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118640622#Comment_118640622

People always go back to the thing of "another income into the house" comparing the modern farmer to a farmer in lets say the 1980's where more often than not his wife was a house wife. If you look at any profession now a days, very very few couples dont have two incomes, its always talked about in farming circles that the the wife/husband is working to keep the farm a float but if the farmer was a carpenter or a electrician his wife would still have her job, its not a fair comparison in today's Ireland.....i think its much more realistic to say does the farmer himself/herself have an off farm job as well as farming and let that be the distinction.

trg

This PROBABLY isn't the point of the article but is gappiness a word?

I feel its a word I could use a lot!

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118640622#Comment_118640622

Agree with this.. We can only consider a farm full time enterprise if there is no off farm income coming into the house. Otherwise its being supported. Must be a tiny % overall. Partly because farm incomes have plummeted but also partly because lifestyle expectations have soared. Had this out with a chap recently, hes home fulltime with 20 sucklers, considers the farm fulltime, but his wife is a senior nurse taking in a decent wage, really him being home saves massive childcare costs.. We all know a 20cow suckler herd isnt a fulltime farming enterprise to support a modern lifestyle.

herdquitter

It's a curious strategy, rushing out to insult as many farmers as possible.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118641591#Comment_118641591

Absolutely bang on

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118642098#Comment_118642098

20 sucklers?

What does he do after 8 a.m?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118643803#Comment_118643803

It'll upset the big lads for sure, not sure who else it's insulting. Very few lads around here farm full time, vast majority are doing something else aswell so I suppose were all hobby farmers around here.

Seems like most of the point of the article is get people angry at Pippa Hackett and not the entire dept who's following the exact same EU policy that she's following. But no sur it's the bloody greens that have caused all this bother.

Mooooo

A lot of houses run on two incomes or one person reducing costs eg. childcare etc. Instead of partime/ full time should the question not be is the farm returning the average industrial salary, or whatever acceptable figure is out there. Assuming because a partner is working that the partners wage is supporting the farm would be incorrect imo. The question should be if the farming enterprise is bringing x amount into the house.

More "partime" farmers is all well and good but the postcard image the greens seem to be trying to project is a far cry from reality in terms of running a household, earning an income etc. Using cherry picked examples of "fulltime" farms then to hold up in organics when the holdings picked are 3 or 4 times the size of the average farm holding.

They're not just stuck in their own little bubble, tis full of helium as well

Dickie10

i was just going to ask the same question about the chap with 20 sucklers , what does he do all day?

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118643926#Comment_118643926

Turns over for the second sleep id say lol

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644285#Comment_118644285

Busy fool...like a lot of farmers

paddysdream

I would imagine that a move towards more "part time " farming (meaning depends on what you consider part time ) in Ireland would suit both the Government (permanent ) and the EU .

A sector (livestock farming ) which is a handy scapegoat for global warming and all its associated ills would be much easier to regulate ,guide ,coerce etc when those involved are mainly seen and see themselves as not reliant on an economic return from it .

The farm here would and does support a family .Yes my BPS would be above the average on both a per hectare and total basis but like a poster on here always says "they were there for everyone at the time "

Stock numbers (mainly sheep )would be well in excess of national flock size .

All that said I will admit to being lucky in having the land base and having farmed at the "right "time .Land quality again would be very good although much of this is only due to extensive reclamation in the 90's .

Farming full time here and it would be our main income (probably 70/80% )

All that said I read threads on here re. farming and what people are doing and spending money on and most of it would be unsustainable without a very good off farm income .Stuff like bale splitters and other exotic items that are most likely lovely to have but are well out of the reach and chequebook of someone for whom any investment much pay its way and most often must pay within a year or two .Every penny spent is considered and I imagine my setup would be a very low cost type one going by what I see around me .Not a chance of me dropping 5k on a whim like I see some doing .

its the little things that people like the bould Pippa forget about; yes I would love to invest 20k in some eco friendly shite that may or may not pay me back or be good for global warming but the groceries will still have to be bought and children educated and I know where my priorities lie .

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644285#Comment_118644285

A neighbour up the road here at something similar, 18/20 sucklers, 40-50 dry stock and about 150 lambs, no ewes. To listen to him there’s not a man in Ireland busier than he is, he’d be in the yard at 8 in the morning and be lucky to be finished at 8 in the evening. I often wonder what he does for the other 23 hours a day!

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058233271/hobby-farming-encouraged

Wish these farming orgs would be more honest about their real agenda ie. fully supportive of the cheap food policy. It would then allow a proper debate in regards to their hypocrisy in terms of railing against the inevitable outcome of that position in terms of eroding margins and the sorry state of the likes of the pig/poultry sector, beef etc.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118642098#Comment_118642098

This is actually me............. Married to a nurse and all 😁

Not sure I agree with a farm only being a full time enterprise if there is no off farm income coming into the house. Until last year I worked off farm full time and so did she. A hell of a lot of households have 2 full time incomes, either out of necessity or simply the spouse has their own career aspirations. Dose a farmer need to earn twice as much as the average Joe to be considered a real farmer?

But yes I agree the 20 cow sucker herd is not a full time job, for me its definitely part time hours for part time pay and there is nothing wrong with that either, the kids now have a full time parent at home. I don't consider the farm "supported" by her job either that would imply it is costing us but it currently covers the mortgage repayments and some other household bills which is not a bad situation to be in before using her income. Between reduced childcare costs and paying less tax on the farm income we are nearly as well off with our 1.5 incomes as we were with 2.5.

n1st

Definition of hobby

: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation.

Definition of farming

: the practice of agriculture or aquaculture. is the activity of growing crops or keeping animals on a farm.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644331#Comment_118644331

He probably is working all the hours.

If you want a 100 hr week a farm will let you no matter the stocking.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118643926#Comment_118643926

Not as bad as someone going on teh dole for 12 years to rear the children and then went to the public service.

At least with the sucklers they have to do a bit of work

n1st

"busy fools" as someone mentioned earlier

JohnChadwick

The farm here would and does support a family .Yes my BPS would be above the average on both a per hectare and total basis but like a poster on here always says "they were there for everyone at the time

Who says that.

Absolutely not the case.

Those on low value entitlements haven't had a sniff of an opportunity to go about getting them increased in the last 2 decades.

The time of stocking up for reference years was before a lot of lads time.

Can they do anything about it now even? Except wait for them to go up to an 85% of average value in another 5 bloody years. For ffs.

Doesn't make sense not to have 100% convergence, just to put today's generation on an even footing with yesterday's generation.

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644037#Comment_118644037

I meant Pat 😄

Bass Reeves

It ways amazed me this full-time/part-time argument regarding farming. Is a farmer that cuts hay silage or hedges a full-time farmer on his own farm. Is a lad that hauls or buys cattle for a part-time farmers a full time farmer on his own farm. Is an agri contractor that farm but operates his contracting business from a company structure a full time farmer on his own farm.

The reality is that drystock farming takes a way less time with the advent of machinery. You could run a 200 acre drystock farm if set up right in 15-20 hours a week if you lived on it. Would this lad be a hobby farmer. If he was taking 50-80k I real terms from that farm would he be a hobby farmer if he earned 100k on outside employment

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118642098#Comment_118642098

After a polite DM i got I'll temper my position on this "a bit"..

It was put to me that if there were two PAYE workers in a house one a nurse and one a guard, I would still consider each full time in their chosen profession.. Its an interesting perspective..

Farmers always consider their position different to PAYE workers, "its more a lifestyle than a job" is common..

I dont know, if you have a lad at home full time with 10 cows, minding the kids and doing school runs etc, is he more Full time than a PAYE worker doing 39 hrs off farm like myself with the same stock levels and still doing their share of family chores who people would say is Part Time or even Hobby Farming ???

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645566#Comment_118645566

Of course there is a lot in between a 10 cow farmer and a farm that can keep a family comfortable as the only income. And even that metric will vary between different households. I'm sure there are farms bringing in well above the average industrial wage and still have a PAYE worker or other incomes.

To me a Hobby farmer is some one with enough stock to maintain a parcel of land without any real intention of turning much profit.

A part time farmer is running a small business part time. (Or at least trying to!) I would consider myself a part time farmer, even though it is currently my only income.

Maybe we all need to stop worring about how much stock the lad up the road has and how many hours he puts in? As we will all draw our own lines and conclusions, one lads part time operation may well be as big or earn as much as another lads full time.