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Refused license

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  • 11-02-2022 11:14am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭corelokttikka


    Hi lads. I was refused my license renewal and received a letter from the gardai saying I was a danger to the public.

    Since then another rifle was approved and is now in my house. My sons have the licenses for a few different calibre rifles and a shotgun

    Post edited by Cass on


Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Contact your FO first of all and find out the problem. If the refusal is legit then make an appointment to see the Super, and your FO as they make the recommendation to the Super, and sit down to discuss the reason(s) for their decision.

    While waiting weigh up the option of appealing as you must now declare on each application that you were refused and you only have 30 days from the date of the refusal to appeal the decision.

    Take no further decision over the phone or verbally. Ask for everthing in writing for your own records and as a means to prove what you're saying for any future appeal.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,018 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Lawyer up as well.

    As that is a serious accusation to be made too about your character by AGS. As we don't know [and don't want to know] the reason you had this hung on you, they must have had some reason to do so. However, if you still have another gun registered in your name and in your possession, they either haven't noticed this or don't consider you THAT much of a threat to yourself and the public. Either way and whatever the circumstances you decide this is one where you do need legal counsel involved. If it is a "mistake" you will want legal counsel to get written assurance from the Super that it was such and that your good character and record is so recorded in Garda files and decisions in the future for firearms applications.

    If it wasn't a mistake and they had good reason to do so. Well, you'll need a lawyer to try a damage limitation exercise.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭JP22


    As Cass and Grizz says, have everything on paper.

    Don't go in bull-headed to the meeting, it won't acheive anything, be level headed.

    Lets hope its just one of those glitches, stupid mistakes do happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭.243


    No harm to put whatever firearms you already have currently in your possession or access to into a dealers storage,if it goes sour till it’s sorted out at least you have some sort of control of how they are stored away



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    This exactly. I always keep new firearms at the range until I get a license sorted. Based on the refusal, it might be wise to put all your licensed firearms into a dealership, or club. Get a receipt as proof and show this to the FO and Super to show that you have taken the refusal seriously and intend to have the situation remedied. I would consider taking legal representation with me, but I don't know (and don't want to know) the circumstances of the refusal.

    Stay Free



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The odd part, if I'm reading your op correctly is you got authorised for another, different, firearm AFTER the refusal?

    How does this make sense? Thats rhetorical, but if you're such a "danger" then why can you have some firearms but not the one you were refused?

    Something really wrong here and the authorisation for the other firearms only gives you a much stronger case for arguing the refusal.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo





  • I think they’re his sons rifles. But he’s saying they’re in the house with him, a supposed danger to the public.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The sentence structure of the op makes me think perhaps he got approved for another firearms AFTER the refusal. If that is the case then as said he has a good case for appeal.

    The comment about his sons is straight froward enough and not, legally, an issue as the OP would not, and should not, have no access to firearms he is not licensed on regardless of the refusal. AGS would view it as such too. Not always, but if they're adhereing to the law they should.

    Of course if you are right and he is referring to his sons' guns only, then I'd also go with @.243 advice and have his firearms stored, even those currently licensed, as two things are likely to happen:

    • All other guns will be revoked
    • All other guns will be refused come renewal time

    And neither scenario will leave the OP with in a poition to keep his guns at home so better to get ahead of the posse.

    I can understand if the OP does not want to divulge personal info and frankly I'd recommend not doing so until he has some movement on this in the form of a meeting with the Super, and having sought professional legal advice from a solicitor, but without more information its hard to know what to say.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,332 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I read it as he was approved for a different rifle after the refusal. But on second glance I think you're reading might be correct.

    In which I'd agree with Cass. The sons firearms are irrelevant. Nobody should have access to them other than the sons. Certainly firearms being in the house anyway is not a argument that is going to help anyone in this situation. Rightly so too, as applied the other way it could be most unfair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    If the renewal was refused, where is the rifle now? Did the Gardai take the rifle (and any other guns you may have) when they declared you a danger to the public or did they get you to leave them into a gun dealer?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,018 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I've had this kind of bizarre situation happen to me and my mother once before in the oughties,before the Limerick Dist court wins of the handguns and semi CF rifles.

    For some reason, my mother then in her early 80s was declared a danger to the public by the then Superintendent and had all her licenses revoked!!! [She is dual-licensed on some of my firearms for the simple reason of power of attorney.]And that she could keep one antique firearm provided it was deactivated!!

    Needless to say, this went straight to our solicitors and some very pointed and sharp questions were being asked of Henry St as to how an Octinogerian with no criminal record or even a speeding ticket was now a danger to the public and disentitled to hold a firearms cert? Lots of BS spewed forth and a written assurance was promptly issued that they could find nothing on her and that there was no such reason for her to be considered such and that her licenses were fully in order and in good standing.

    I will put this down to a couple of things at the time;

    As this arrived 2weeks before the cases were to be heard, it was a frightener move to get me to back off from pursuing along with others the dist court cases, as the CS at the time was virulently anti-gun and did everything in his power to obstruct the dist court decisions at every opportunity over the next three years. Culminating in Oct 2012 by losing over 30 thousand euros in costs on six cases in Limerick DC [He was promoted to head of the Road traffic corps after this and has now thankfully retired!🙄]

    OR They intended to try and frame me for something in my former career by revoking my licenses to use in the DC and got our initials mixed up. As both I and my mum share the first same letter of our names.

    So I have to fill in all my applications that I was refused a license in those three year periods. Not because I did anything illegal, but because of Garda top brass bloody-mindedness and politics. So in many cases its no black mark against you to write down that you were refused a license.

    So to the OP.

    As said we don't know or want to know the details of your situation. But let's say this could be for something you may not have done at all either that was naughty in the eyes of the law, and you are being leaned on for some reason. Only you will know this yourself,and this is the reason you do need legal counsel on this. Let's just say after my experience with that carry on that happened to me and my mum back then. I wouldn't trust AGS NOT to pull a stunt like that again on someone else. For whatever reason.

    Also, the other thing I notice here is that you have been refused...It's not the same as having the license REVOKED. Which would require a formal written reason and letter from the Super stating such and reasons given, usually handed to you when AGS show up to collect the gun[s]. It sounds to me like someone in the licensing chain has been careless with their wording,or has a grudge against you or yours and is trying to make life difficult. Because if they considered you a grievous threat, they would have revoked your other cert and probably those of your sons too.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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