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DF Commission Report

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭sparky42


    More like Varadkar knowing that the overwhelming majority of Irish voters don't care.



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭vswr


    In fairness, I think Ireland are doing as much as they can as a "neutral" nation, who are also evidently not a neutral nation. Any defence spend it a hard fought battle currently.

    As has been demonstrated numerous times in elections past, any notion of getting rid of neutrality, or some sort of mandatory service is almost as sacrosanct as pension changes. While the government know something needs to be done about defence, it is also political suicide at the moment to even broach the issue of getting rid of neutrality. Ukraine, Middle and far East etc... are all shifting the trend though, and if it continues, particularly with an increase of Russian incursions into sovereign waters or if there is a major uptick in ops off the west coast which will piss off the fisherman vote, it may swing the other way quite fast.

    But, as also mentioned, that may be too long and it may be a case we don't get a say in the matter either. The US/UK won't let UK assets be compromised through Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭sparky42


    We aren't even doing the bare minimum to pretend we are neutral and never have, its just the systemic unwillingness to consider defence spending in any rational manner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    I for one look forward to the inevitability of the NI first minister announcing to the Assembly that she has approved the Plan to reopen RAF Ballykelly as a P8-A base, to allow the RAF control the Irish Sea (where there is no border) and the western approaches to the RN Submarine base in Scotland.

    Also I look forward to her welcoming the return of the Carlingford Lough OPV to patrol the waters where there is no border...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Next 4 years will be interesting for the Defence Forces and it seams the man that is going to drive the change intends in making it happen.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Do we want to be taking advise from people who backed Brexit amd managed to Destroy the UK?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Lets hope he doesn't **** off early like Tony Holohan's successor as CMO.

    Also, sorry what??




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    What about this fleet of new aircraft he mentions in the interview?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Yes, the increase in available living in single accom makes the DF a more attractive career. No need to be paying rent for someplace you won't be for 3 weeks out of 4 (In the case of NS) or having to commute long distances in the case of Army & Air Corps based in Dublin.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I posted this link before but if the Navy leased this building in Dún Laoghaire and offered it to young single crew members they would have no problem crewing thr IPVs if they get based in Dún Laoghaire ir another location in Dublin as mentioned in the ministers questions.They should even consider building the same type of accomadation in McKee.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    And once they did that, where would they get the money to keep ships at sea?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I think in the changing security environment where countries across Europe are having to up their game for their own security we will come under pressure because whether we like or not, whether neutral or not, we have a strategically important area and the reality is that our disregard for doing even the basics of patrolling and defending our airspace and our waters is a threat to our neighbours.

    Every other country manages to do this except us.

    We shouldn't be relying on other countries to have to take up the slack when an emergency happens or there are incursions in to our sovereign territory.

    It's our responsibility.

    Never mind the practical stuff - it's also about dignity and self respect as well. We are suppose to be a sovereign state so what the hell is the RAF doing having to routinely fly in and out of our airspace to see off incursions?

    Why are we thumbing lifts off the French every time we need to evacuate Irish citizens from somewhere?

    We should be doing this ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Will_I_Regret


    I wonder will we see a naval base being set up on the East Coast this year. It would be nice to see it in Dún Laoghaire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Maybe lets get the ships earmarked for the east coast operational first?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Do you not need both? One of the core reasons of the ships is to get personal joining from the east coast and not just the Republic of Cork.

    The Minister said apart from DL they are also looking at other locations in Dublin. Would Dublin Port give up a berth space to the Navy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Will_I_Regret


    Exactly. No use having operational ships if there is no one there to man them.

    I'd imagine the busy shipping lanes in Dublin Port would make a Base there not feasible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭vswr


    shipping channel for Dublin port is easily avoided/navigated through from Dun Laoghaire. There are enough pleasure craft who do it on a daily basis. I'd be more worried trying to get out in a hurry while a boat race is on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Indeed, but to how many service personnel is this actually available? Especially new 3-Stars who have joined looking for something solid



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    While I would reckon we are a bit away from an East coast 'base', I figure basing the ships in Dun Laoghaire would mean they would have ready access to berths and it is a harbour they are well used to. I do know they occasionally tie up in Dublin along Sir John Rogersons Quay, but the former would be more secure, but also another point is it would give the Navy a better identity and develop an 'ownership' in the community. While south Dublin may not be main demographic for naval recruitment, the harbour there is a major recreational area, visited by people far and wide and would ensure greater visibility and understanding on what the navy does, or for some, even that we have one. The quays in Dublin are a bit off the beaten track by comparison.

    In terms of sleeping accommodation I would target CB Barracks, surely there are buildings there that could be repurposed or renovated? Strategically it could help kill off the proposals to close it down - it is only about a 30 minute transfer away. Real estate is a premium in either DL or dublin city centre.

    Anyway apart from all of that, IMHO it will be important to get them crewed / operational this summer to avoid the inevitable claims of white elephants / waste of money etc. I suppose a commissioning / naming ceremony is the first indicator we will have of any progress rather than being mothballed ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I see AGS have published some stats from their recent call for applications. 37% of their new applicants are people in the newly expanded age cohort of 36-49.

    Maybe its time the DF began to look seriously at expanding their intake limits, especially for the many non-combatant roles that go unfilled. I know that basic military training is universal, but I think some creativity around what roles could be civilianised or manned by older reservists, might be very beneficial to the Forces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I dont know if a 45 year old fitter with no military background would be able to change his ways taking orders from a younger man or woman half his age.

    Not stereotyping but the kind of lads we say the navy need are usually grumpy lads in a union. Maybe if they had Direct Entry warrant Officer ranks where there only job is to keep the ship working it would work but in a military setting would it be possabile to do that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As I keep saying, when all other avenues have been exhausted, whatever remains must be the answer.

    There is full employment and a shortage of practical skills and trades. Whatever has to be done to get 8 Naval ships to sea, has to be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    It was done in the past. the Majority of Naval officers in the 1970s and 80s never set foot in the cadet school, all had already qualified in the merchant marine around the world.

    The last direct entry competition looking for Naval 1st and 2nd engineers had the age limit so low the only way it was possible to have a candidate of that age with the necessary qualifications, was if said candidate joined his first ship as a teenager, and never went ashore, except to sit exams.

    The modern military does not seek robots. The modern civilian employer does not tolerate insubordination either.

    The RN actually took people from civilian trades some years back and retrained them to their military equivalent. I know of one plumber in the west midlands, who ended up as a torpedo technician aboard submarines, in his mid 30s, alongside a messdeck of mostly spotty teenagers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭vswr


    I've technical engineering skills that they're crying out for. Initially, when I looked into joining many years ago, I asked about training etc... from people inside, and they pretty much said you needed to be young and in the clique to advance in anything technical. I know someone who has applied for the Electronics Ord.Degree in Carlow, no less than 7 times over the years, passed the tests 4 times, and has been given all the excuses under the sun not to go. They are now trained of their own accord to a similar level, but it's not recognised inside as they weren't military approved courses... they will walk into a job outside of the military.

    It's not just widening of the bracket which will fix things, the internals of the military are rotten.

    Would I go in now with the skills I have, not a chance. Seeing things done properly in industry and having to go into a rotten understaffed core, where, because of rank, your opinion is easily over-ridden or not passed up... is my idea of hell... Corporations fail because of that type of culture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The difference i am seeing now but is the attitude change good and bad. Lads these days will not except any BS such as working extra hours or doing anything outside there contract.

    I work with Construction, Manufacturing and Agri companys and you would not belivie the change and mostly for the better as workers after covid seen thet where just a number.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah its true, there has never been such a skills shortage in practically every sector of employment in the history of the State. Not in the Celtic Tiger, not ever.

    The 6,000+ apps to AGS is encouraging, but the question is; of those, how many want to be a Garda as their first preference for a career, and are not just kicking tyres in many sectors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Did the recomendation that the IRCG be moved to Dept of Defence go anywhere or has it been quietly forgotten?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




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