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DF Commission Report

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    I'm sure there are still plenty of zero hours S-70s sitting mothballed in a desert somewhere, waiting for a new "color" scheme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭mupper2




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I know the UK is an insane place at the moment but if they sell they EC135s to a Foreign government especially when other state organisations with in the UK could use them they should be ashamed of themselves.

    It will be Ciara & Orla over again and you will than have the British establishment crying that they should not have sold them to a foreign government. Than again this is a country that still thinks Brexit has worked well



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I think i read strangley enough in the plan that they are going to do more ATCP and less ATCP.

    In regards to HEMS I think it's super role for the air corps as it gives brilliant training to the crews and good PR exposure to the air corps. I am probably biased but as they saved a neighbour on mine.

    Its not an exaggeration but they landed in the front garden of the house in what I can only describe as the most amazing piece of skill I seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    As far as I can remember...there is an agreement with the Brits that they would supply our DF with surplus kit at a nice friendly price. Time to take advantage of that now and snap up them 5 helos !



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In the plan they have started a review of Defence Forces infrastructure and property. It will be interesting to see what they come up with weather moving, closing or opening new bases. The Army Design outcome I presume will play a major part in the outcome



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Article below says it will be July before the New Army HQ will be decided. I can see the Mullingar Version of this paper running this story about the Army HQ but worded different




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,593 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Army HQ should be at The Curragh. It makes zero sense to be anywhere else, never mind some decrepit 17th Century barn of a place that is hemmed in by housing and has no potential for future expansion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Commission are the ones that said it should be located Geographicaly centre of the country not local political reps or the Defence Forces.

    Interesting Enough I was in one of our lovely military installations during the week and a member of the PDF I was speaking to said this office of army force design is basically taken a clean sheet to the army.

    So everything that has happened between 1913 and 2023 is behind the army. Nothing is off the table and army is going to be completely revamped to meet modern needs and may look completely different to what we have now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well that will get “interesting” if it ever happens, though at the pace we’ve seen so far on the Commissions recommendations it might be a “while”.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    If we started with a clean sheet we might encourage more recruits. People want to live in modern accommodation, not live the experience of the 18th century soldier. You can visit the Museum in Collins Barracks or Charles fort in Kinsale if that is what interests you.

    We inherited much from our former occupiers, the National army put it into use so the other crowd couldn't. What they took they burnt down, for the most part. Everywhere in the state, there is some form of tech stores or workshop in a military facility trying to work out of what was either living quarters, or stables.

    The defence Forces are the only ones who continue to tolerate this. You don't see AGS working from former 19th century RIC barracks, apart from a few that have been modernised to be unrecognisable indoors.

    You definitely won't seethe state's civil service working from the same offices operated by the civil servants of the crown pre 1921. Look around dubln Castle. They may be within the castle walls, but the buildings they work from are all highly modern.

    2 Cav in Rathmines store the motorcycles of the presidential escort in an old stable. The Officers Mess in Collins Barracks Cork was once used by Monty when he was Adjudant. The Hospital in the DFTC... well... thankfully its not used as a hospital now. 1 Caf used WW1 aircraft hangars for their armoured vehicles in Fermoy until they were forced to move to Collins Barracks in 1998, where modern climate controlled vehicle stores were built for them and the Artillery unit who had moved from similarily antiquated buildings from the 17th century in Ballincollig. Yes you read that right. A barracks built to protect the nearby gunpowder mills which supplied the crown forces with gunpowder to fight the American war of independence.

    The NS, late to the party in 1947, walked into a barracks that had lain idle for 25 years. It focused on having someplace to tie up its ships, at the expense of office and sleeping space ashore. It's taken 75 years to put that right, and there is still a long road ahead. The fire in 2008 helped somewhat in that regard, with much of the antiquities being destroyed, and the need to store same evaporating.

    The Air Corps struggled with WW1 era aircraft hangars until relatively recently. When you see that the RAF allowed one of their to be demolished for the making of the movie "The Battle of Britain" you wonder why we attach such sentimentality to the buildings of those who were here before. They hold no value in them.


    Lets get out of the City Centres. Nobody else does it for their frontline units. The neighbours to the east had no hesitation demolishing Chelsea Barracks. Woolwich was similarily emptied of all but a few ceremonial troops. The barracks On birdcage walk remains because of the palace nearby, however the current King is not a fan of Bucks, so that may change too.

    A modern barracks requires mostly the same things found in most industrial parks. Secure parking, office space, workshops, training rooms, Gyms, secure storage. This is why old barracks make great offices or colleges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    The Curragh is in a good situation for access to air transport and the Glen of Immal. There is space there to construct new buildings, and some of the decrepit ones can be refurbished.

    Also it is close to the capital. In my opinion it ticks all the boxes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It be interesting to see what they believe the future Army will look like. Will it mean less bases or more bases. Bigger numbers or less with the Army's role changed. Less ATCP & Less overseas.

    The biggest problem will be if they say for example close limerick and Cork to build a brand new central Munster Base that's where you would see politicians getting involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    There's already a central Munster base, just off the motorway network, on a roadway that can double as a runway with only slight alterations. It is less than 5 miles from the Limerick and Tipperary border, while being in Cork.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Would Kilworth be big enough to host all the units from Cork & Limerick or would they have to buy land to the north and south?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The Army land at Kilworth stretches from the old N8 west to the M8, and includes everything opposite the current camp to the local road that intersects the road to the ranges. All the land south as far as the bend on the old N8 is DoD property. There were plans to build a prison here, but nothing came of it.

    And that's before we even talk about the range lands. In total 3352 acres. This shows most of it, but I've cut corners.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Absolutely. During WW1 thousands were billeted here. Over time the huts to the east were dismantled, and the ones in the current camp gradually fell into disrepair, before being rebuilt in the early 2000s, in the same way as the huts in the Glen of Imaal. There used to be a far more substantial camp east of the old N8, but all that remains are the outlines of their foundation blocks now. Even included a theatre and a soldiers home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Until the Army Design Office has completed there job apart from APC purchases nothing will happen with the Army



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Give where we are in the political cycle and talk of a July 2024 publication of heads of bill logistically a lot has to go right for it to happen within the lifetime of this government



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Small article on the restructure of the rangers as per the CoDF report. Nothing really that wasnt known




  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭mupper2


    Still not sold on the 3 geographically separated units is going to work...unless someone buys more, larger helos and transport aircraft.



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Certainly I admire the ambition behind the proposal, but I too would wonder about the ‘in practice’ piece. However, if they are to move towards implementing this, it certainly it should imply greater Capex investment in Haulbowline and Baldonnel not to mention more capable equipment - certainly helicopters in what ever domain they deploy would need to be up gear or two,



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Surely having some based in Baldonnel would allow for a much faster response time for any incident, assuming of course as you say the transport is available. I kind of agree with the question of having them permanently in Haulbowline, I mean without helicopters any operation is going to have to be planned and developed so why have Rangers at the base? I mean it might be different if we had a ship capable of operating helicopters and support them and the Rangers but we don't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    You would presume they would need a Helicopter based in the Naval base for the unit to operate correctly. There was plans for a Heliport and Hangars there but i think that might of been as part of the Air Corps Plan for SAR, Dohvelle would know better.

    The unit in Casement would have access to the Duty Helicopter.

    Also there is suppouse to be 8 super medium helicopters on the way along with 5 EC135s and then you have the current fleet of 139s but they might be ready for the skip.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,593 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its good to hear this ambition and it makes sense that a relatively compact SOF re-org be a test case for the Transformation Office and a signal to the other commands that they can begin to get with the programme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Good. We've had nothing for so long, buying the best now is the only option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If its 3 units would that.be 2 on the west coast and the thirf on the east coast?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭mupper2




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